M4OHN Cutting Cycle
- 07-12-2004, 11:43 PM
M4OHN Cutting Cycle
How would a typical M4OHN cutting cycle be, if used alone?
I heard that you must eat a bit over maintainance in order
not to lose any muscle/strength, maybe some of you guys
who have used m4ohn to cut can explain. When did you start
seeing/feeling a difference?
How does this look for someone who is 6'3", 215 lbs, 33in waist?
5 Week M4OHN Cutting Cycle:
Week 1: M4OHN 16mg (split up 4x a day), Pro-Liver tabs
Week 2: M4OHN 20mg (split up 4x a day), Pro-Liver tabs
Week 3: M4OHN 24mg (split up 4x a day), Pro-Liver tabs
Week 4: M4OHN 24mg (split up 4x a day), Pro-Liver tabs
Week 5: M4OHN 28mg (split up 4x a day), Pro-Liver tabs
Cardio would consist of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Muay Thai kickboxing
2 nights a week (2 hours each day), and running once or twice
a week for 35 minutes.
Full body muscle workout 3x a week, starting with a different set of
muscle group each day.
Of course, I would be eating 6+ times a day. Smaller, high protien
meals, with high "good" carbs.
PCT would be 4 weeks:
Week 1: Nolva 60mg, Liver tabs, R-ALA, Saw Palmetto, ZMA.
Week 2: Nolva 40mg, Liver tabs, R-ALA, Saw Palmetto, ZMA.
Week 3: Nolva 30mg, Liver tabs, R-ALA, Saw Palmetto, ZMA.
Week 4: Nolva 20mg, Liver tabs, R-ALA, Saw Palmetto, ZMA.
How does that look? How much lbs of fat loss is ideal for a cycle
like the one I posted? Would I gain some strength/muscle gains,
and how much lbs of that is ideal?
- 07-13-2004, 08:05 AM
M4OHN will not cause you to lose muscle/strength or fat, your cutting diet would do that. If your goal is to lose fat, you won't be able to do it eating over maintenance. The M4OHN will preserve what muscle you have while you cut the fat, which it should very well. I'd shoot for dropping 1-2lbs per week. Don't expect to make many gains while cutting. Get a good cutting diet, under maintenance calories.
There is no benefit to gradually increasing the dosage, I suggest running at 1 dosage straight thru- 20-24mg or so. You won't notice anything from the M4OHN for at least a week, it took me about 12 days. It will take a few weeks to really see the fat loss results, but they'll be there if the diet is good.
- 07-13-2004, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Longdog
strength started to climb, and they still lost weight. Basically, I thought that you could lose fat and gain muscle at the same time while on this if you had your diet in check.
07-13-2004, 09:21 AM
If somebody lost strength & size while bulking, they have no idea what they're doing & should not be giving advice. Androgens don't metabolize fat, diet & cardio do.Originally Posted by darius
Cutting & bulking at the same time is virtually impossible. To gain muscle, you neeed to be ina calorie surplus. I you have a calorie surplus, you cannot burn fat. It's basic fitness nutrition.
Maybe there are guys who lost muscle while cutting on Triac & M4OHN (I'm 1 of them), but thats a whole diferent story. The Triac causes the muscle loss.
07-13-2004, 04:18 PM
bump to longdong.
i'm doing m4ohn. at first i lost a good amount of fat, than my diet went crazy and i seem to be gaining a noticeable amount of muscle without fat gain back. but to the dosages, try getting your way into the 30mg's. i love the stuff
07-13-2004, 05:34 PM
Darius, M4OHN works very well with something like the Carb-Cycling diet designed by Twin Peak over at AvantLabs. You can read the articles at Mind&Muscle.net. You should indeed be able to drop fat and add muscle if you combine these two. If you just want to drop a lot of fat ASAP, use 2 or 3 no-carb days per week. If you are more patient, don't have more than 2, and you can recomp even if you are isocaloric overall.
07-13-2004, 11:57 PM
Cool, thanks alot, I read that over there and it seems like it works pretty well for what I want to do. I basically just want to loose as much fat as possible and gain as much strength as possible. I don't want to start losing so much fat, that muscle starts to go and get weaker. I have been doing full body workouts 3x a week, starting with a different group each day. I have done this type of routine forever almost. Would switching to like a 3-4 day split or something benefit me better in what I am trying to do? Or should I stick with what I know and have experience with?Originally Posted by Strateg0s
Typically, how many lbs of fat are lost on a a cycle of M4ohn? I read some posts where people lost 2-3% bf, so thats like 4-6lbs on a 200 pounder? It would probably be hard to tell without calipers though right because you may be gaining muscle lbs, while losing fat lbs, so it seems like the weight isn't really changing right?
07-14-2004, 01:22 AM
You're exactly right on that account. On a carb cycling diet scale weight on it's own is somewhat useless to gauge overall results, and if you throw androgens into the mix that makes scale weight even more useless. To gauge results, a mix of caliper readings, tape measurements, and strength levels can help to get an idea of the results you are obtaining.
There is no "typical" amount of fat lost in a cycle, that is all going to depend on many factors, including diet, cardio performed, etc. I've found personally that Twin Peaks carb cycling worked well up to a point, but fat loss has been a bit slow lately as I haven't had much time to perform cardio work. Just having 2 no carb days hasn't quite been enough on it's own to continue fat loss for myself, but I've since added in m-dien/m4ohn into the mix, which should help to get things back up and running as far as fatloss is concerned.
07-14-2004, 02:52 AM
If you *really* want to lose fat, quickly, you can throw in some triac and clenbuterol (both available at CNW, a board sponsor). Check threads around here for info on their use/effectiveness. It depends how patient you are. As for the working out, the program I pointed to you is getting good reviews (Tri-Phase Progressive Training). If you stick with it for 13 weeks, along with the carb-cycling, you should easily bust out of any plateau you are on.Originally Posted by darius
How many pounds of fat lost "depends" obviously on a lot of variables. With the carb cycling, you can adjust the calories consumed weekly to get a reasonable net loss or gain, which will be loss of fat, or gain of muscle, as long as you are training well (and especially if you are on androgens).Typically, how many lbs of fat are lost on a a cycle of M4ohn? I read some posts where people lost 2-3% bf, so thats like 4-6lbs on a 200 pounder? It would probably be hard to tell without calipers though right because you may be gaining muscle lbs, while losing fat lbs, so it seems like the weight isn't really changing right?
In short, if you just can't wait, drop a few $ and use (sparingly!) triac and clen, along with M4OHN while carb-cycling. If you are more patient, or are broke, then just the combination of the two programs, plus M4OHN, should do great things for you. I'd use the M4OHN during the volume phase while having a bigger net calorie deficit, then if you have something else, you could run a bulk in the latter phases. The cardio you are already doing should help the initial cut, though if you are regularly doing all that, the main problem with not being ripped already is (I suppose) simply in your diet, so CC for you it is.
Also, I don't think it is helpful to have cardio on four different days (MA x2 + run x2), if that's how you do it. Maybe drop the running and do some HIIT sprinting or jumping rope on the MA days. Workout on the high-carb days. With your schedule, 3 days a week might be plenty, if you feel like you're overtraining.
07-14-2004, 11:11 PM
Today I started my carb cycling diet. Today was a training day
so I started it off as a "high carb" day. Here's what I ate, I know
it's not super clean, but it will improve as I go to the grocery store,
etc.. Anyways, tell me what you think. Again, I'm 6'3", 215 lbs.
10am - Breakfast: 3 Tyson chicken strips, 1 cup 2% milk, 2 scoops
of ovaltine, 2 tbsp's of ketchup.
Total: 640 cals, 57g carbs, 38g protein, 26g fat.
12am - 1hr 20min weight workout. Did everything, alot higher reps.
Feeling pretty damn sore. Put some Ab-Solved on after shower.
1:30pm - Lunch: (I was at some Asian buffet) 2 chicken drumsticks
(no skin), 2 thighs (no skin) (chicken was grilled),
about a cup of boneless chicken curry (yeah I ate alot)
1 cup of steam white rice (gonna start eating brown)
2 big tortilla things (white bread).
Total: 1292 cals, 108g carbs, 118g protein, 38g fat.
6:00pm - 1-1/2 scoops of Nectar protein mix with lotsa water.
Total: 135 cals, 34g protein.
7:15-9:15 Very strenous cardio Brazilian Jiu Jitsu/ Muay Thai. I must have
sweated out every oz. of water in me. Took some ephedra before.
9:15pm - Immediately after marital arts (like in the car driving home),
U Turn Protein bar with 20oz fruit punch Gatorade. Took shower
at home and put on Ab-Solved.
450 cals, 40g carbs, 30g protein, 8g fat.
10:00pm - Dinner: 4 Skinless baked chicken drumsticks with 1 cup of white rice.
Half a mango for desert.
570 cals, 60g carb, 53g protein, 8g fat.
12am - 2 Drumsticks 152 cals, 24g protein, 4g fat (I'll eat that at 12ish then
hit the sack.)
How does that look for a high carb day? Tomorrow, haven't decided yet, will be a
no carb or low carb day. I feel pretty worn out today from the weight lifting and
evening cardio. Overall today I ate something like : 3239 cals, 208g carbs, 297g
protein, 84g fat. I could have done it way wrong or something, so let me know how
the diet looked. Thanks alot.
09-24-2004, 12:41 PM
Dude i have to be harsh...no wondering your not gettign results a diet like this will get you NowhereOriginally Posted by darius
Near Big.Comeon study some nutriton before you even do gear.Eat healthy proetin ,healthy carbs and healthy fats every 2 -3 hours....(edit some fats out postraining)and postraining its ok to eat simple carbs.no wonder your doin mohn,with a diet like this youd have to do something to get big.LOL...NO AMOUNT OF GEAR WILL MAKE UP FOR DIET.Study and learn about diet before you even think about using anything youll be surprised how much diet matters when you pay attention.
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