First PH Cycle?

[Slick2oo4]

Im thinking about my first cycle. I figure id start with a low side effect cycle
and go with 19-Nordiol But what should i stack it with 1,4 andro or 4 ad. I want
to gain 15-20lbs in a 4 week cycle if possible of lean muscle and cut up my stomach.

 

[ManBeast]

Sorry buddy, you aren't going to do that with 19nor and 4AD (and definitely not with 1,4 andro)... especially in 4 weeks. That being said. a 19nor/4AD cycle is a relatively mild one. Even when "on" it's very difficult to bulk (gain muscle) and cut (get definition) at the same time. I would suggest breaking it into two separate cycles.
Bulk. recover. Cut. recover. Repeat as needed. I think you should dig around a bit here for some ideas

ManBeast

 

[cr4ytonic]

If I were you I would just do 1-AD by ergopharm, you will get great results from a first cycle (It was my first cycle of PHs when it first came out). If you are going to do that you might as well do a topical 1-test 4ad combo, since you are trying to get 1-test with the 1-ad anyways. However if you don't like to use a transdermal twice daily the 1-ad pills are the way to go. You will get good results. 1-ad is more expensive and more convenient but not as powerful.

Do 1-ad if you want a low-sides 1st cycle.
do 1-test, 4ad transdermal if don't mind using a transdermal, probably more sides because it is stronger (I never get any but some do).

Either will give you good gains.

Check on the dosing for the 1-ad if you go with that, I think it says 300mg a day (not sure) which was low for me when I did it for a first cycle (didn't know **** back then). You should try it for a week though and see what happens, if nothing bump the dose. I woudn't worry about anthing more than 6-oxo for PCT w/ the 1-ad, if you do the 1-test then go with nolva, but I think 6-oxo would cut it (it is less effective and more expensive IMO though).

I now you wanted 19-nordiol but I would not go with that. I don't think it would give you 15-20lbs but 1-ad probably would, not all lean but you can always cut later. 1-test would definatly if you have never done a PH before. either way be sure to EAT RIGHT!

 

[Slick2oo4]

Kool thanks. I kept noticing less expensive and that type of stuff but i got some money laying around so it really dosent matter. EDIT 15-20 lbs period. But not all by creatine So what im gathering from all that is that a 1AD & 4AD stack would suffice for me without being as strong as 1-test. Good i can get 6-oxo and 1-ad real cheap. Grand Opening special plus 10 dollar off coupons. S1+ has it all in one spray but i think that might be a bit much for first cycle??

 

[ManBeast]

You can (and should) get a more powerful PCT, just `cuz it never hurts.... 15-20 lbs will not come in 4 weeks even with creatine if you want to keep/improve your abs...

ManBeast

 

[Redspy]

My first cycle was Ergopharm Nordiol and a transdermal 4-AD. I choose this specifically for the low sides these two compounds offer. The only sides I encountered were mild cramps occassionally. As others have stated this is not a huge mass cycle but it's a good introduction to PHs. Personally I gained about 12lbs, of that about 4lbs of that was bloat from the 4-AD. If you have success you can move on to stonger PHs later, e.g 1-AD, 1-Test, M1T etc

 

[Longdog]

I want
to gain 15-20lbs in a 4 week cycle if possible of lean muscle and cut up my stomach.

I almost peed in my pants when I read this.......

Yes, it's that easy to gain 20lbs LBM & cut at the same time. That's why 99% of the guys in your gym look like pro bodybuilders.

 

[cr4ytonic]

Whichever you choose (btw I would not bother with the 4ad if you go with the 1-ad, personal pref). Don't get hung up on the 15-20lbs, you don't want to eat yourself fat just to watch the scales go up or set unreal expectations. Realize you will drop some weight whenever you stop taking the PH you choose. How much depends on what you take and your PCT.

 

[Sgt. Ownage]

My first cycle was Ergopharm Nordiol and a transdermal 4-AD. I choose this specifically for the low sides these two compounds offer. The only sides I encountered were mild cramps occassionally. As others have stated this is not a huge mass cycle but it's a good introduction to PHs. Personally I gained about 12lbs, of that about 4lbs of that was bloat from the 4-AD. If you have success you can move on to stonger PHs later, e.g 1-AD, 1-Test, M1T etc

You should run mild compounds such as ^ for your first PH cycle. You'll get gains, and it's a smart move.

 

[Slick2oo4]

You can (and should) get a more powerful PCT, just `cuz it never hurts.... 15-20 lbs will not come in 4 weeks even with creatine if you want to keep/improve your abs...

ManBeast

Yea im planning on havin nolva at hand, 6oxo, tribex,and z-mass for pct.. Any thing else? Yea im not to worried about my abs at the moment just have to have them back by spring break. Shouldnt be a problem

 

[ManBeast]

Ermmm... We're in the middle of summer break here... When were you planning on runing this bulker, and when is your spring break?

ManBeast

 

[cr4ytonic]

Slick, out of curiosity did you figure out what you will be taking? I doubt you need Nolva for PCT if you are only taking Nordiol & 4AD (at low-moderate doses). Better safe than sorry though.

 

[cookmic5]

Gaining that amount of weight on a 19nor/4ad cycle is possible:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8773
See post #3

not very probable, but possible.

cm5

 

[ManBeast]

1) He was on 6 weeks (or more). 2 weeks can make a huge difference (in this case it's 150% longer cycle...)

2) 15 posts in a year... I wonder what else he's posted about....

3) First cycle gains can be ridiculous, ask me how I know

ManBeast

 

[Slick2oo4]

Slick, out of curiosity did you figure out what you will be taking? I doubt you need Nolva for PCT if you are only taking Nordiol & 4AD (at low-moderate doses). Better safe than sorry though.

Nolva was gonna be just on hand for the 1-ad 4-ad stack. Just to have some over all mabe not these stacks but future ones if needed.

Ima try a major bulker till about dec mabe then start to cut. Atleasts thats my plan. Me and my buddies are going on a 9 day cruise durring spring break we got a nice little pot of $500 to see who can get the biggest and cut. Its long away but i got to start packin on lbs but not in fat.

 

[cookmic5]

1) He was on 6 weeks (or more). 2 weeks can make a huge difference (in this case it's 150% longer cycle...)

2) 15 posts in a year... I wonder what else he's posted about....

3) First cycle gains can be ridiculous, ask me how I know

ManBeast

Hey I just remembered the thread from back when I was looking at running a 19nor cycle and thought it might be interesting or worthwhile for him to look at if for no other reason than more reading on the topic. Take it for what it's worth obviously, for all I know it was 90% fat.

cm5

 

[Slick2oo4]

Well im just going to go with 1-AD pills (already bought at Vitamin Shoppe $31) i bought the last two bottles they had (save one for later). Not sure there gonna order more cause of the "BAN". Then ill use some 4-derm and put 6 more grams of 4-ad powder to make it 400mg. Probaly wait another month before i start to try to really pack on some lbs naturaly. Sound fine for a 1st timer?

 

[cookmic5]

Then ill use some 4-derm and put 6 more grams of 4-ad powder to make it 400mg. Probaly wait another month before i start to try to really pack on some lbs naturaly. Sound fine for a 1st timer?

How much 4AD is in 4-aderm? are you sure it will hold another 6g? If I were you I would buy T-4 from custom, it has 10g in 4oz at a great price and the T-Gel is the best transdermal carrier out.

my 2 cents

cm5

 

[cr4ytonic]

It has 6 grams in 4oz.

 

[Slick2oo4]

How much 4AD is in 4-aderm? are you sure it will hold another 6g? If I were you I would buy T-4 from custom, it has 10g in 4oz at a great price and the T-Gel is the best transdermal carrier out.

my 2 cents

cm5

Yea i was looking at that but i was clicking on a dead link or something cause all it had was a picture and buy now button. But yea that looks good. But i still need 12g. Can you just add 2g 4-ad powder to the gel?? Im not sure how that works. How many mg per pump or 2ml i hate math even if its simple.

 

[cr4ytonic]

please tell me you at least tried...
you are lucky I am bored as hell @ work...

4oz is is 118ml
10g is 10,000 mg

10,000 / 118 = 84.75mg per ml
84.75 * 2 = 169.5mg per 2ml

You should measure the volume of 1 pump to see what it is though and repeat the math above if it is not 2ml. Check the math, I didn't.

You should just get 2 bottles, the solution will only hold 10 grams (which I find amazing). http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16400

 

[cookmic5]

4oz is is 118ml
10g is 10,000 mg

10,000 / 118 = 84.75mg per ml
84.75 * 2 = 169.5mg per 2ml

If for no other reason than to nit pick...

4oz is 120ml

2ml of the above would yield 166.6mg

But I concur in that I hope he atleast tried.

cm5

 

[cr4ytonic]

cookmic5, where are you getting 4oz is 120ml?

one fluid ounce is 0.02957 liters

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_nop.htm

 

[Slick2oo4]

So how do you mix the 4ad powder in the T-gel. Any thing special.

 

[cr4ytonic]

Pour it in and shake the **** out of it. You may have to give it a hot water bath if you are aiming for a really high concentration.

Just get the t4 from custom www.customnutritionwarehouse.com already mixed and he is a good guy.

How long are you going to be on the 1-ad? Just want to make sure you have your dosing worked out and enough on hand. Might want to plan out a high protein diet also.

 

[Slick2oo4]

4 Week 400mg a day 1-ad oral Two bottles, Then 400mg trans 4-ad Yea i have a pretty good diet and i always get atleast 200g or protien a day. Then once i start a cycle im gonna make sure i get 300 or close too. What about Nolva for this im gonna have some liquid but not planning on using it for pct but just if i feel something wrong with my nips.

 

[cr4ytonic]

When I did 4-ad it seemed a 5 week cycle worked best, if you respond to 400mg great, I had to take 700mg so you might one some more on hand, if you don't use it you can always do another cycle.

Some might say nolva and better safe than sorry but if you get gyno from this I would be shocked.

 

[cookmic5]

cookmic5, where are you getting 4oz is 120ml?

one fluid ounce is 0.02957 liters

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_nop.htm

That's what it says on the bottle. :think:

Can't believe a damn thing any company tells you now-a-days