Alcohol and S.E.R.Ms - AnabolicMinds.com

Alcohol and S.E.R.Ms

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    Alcohol and S.E.R.Ms


    Just a random thought that crossed my mind the other day.

    I've always heard that estrogen is raised during times of alcohol consumption but never saw any studies to confirm this. An easy pubmed search produced tons of evidence for this.. ie:
    Quote Originally Posted by pubmed

    Does diet affect breast cancer risk?

    Holmes MD, Willett WC.

    Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. michelle.holmes@channing.harva rd.edu

    The role of specific dietary factors in breast cancer causation is not completely resolved. Results from prospective studies do not support the concept that fat intake in middle life has a major relation to breast cancer risk. However, weight gain in middle life contributes substantially to breast cancer risk. Alcohol is the best established dietary risk factor, probably by increasing endogenous estrogen levels. Hypotheses relating diet during youth to risk decades later will be difficult to test. Nevertheless, available evidence is strong that breast cancer risk can be reduced by avoiding weight gain during adult years, and by limiting alcohol consumption.

    PMID: 15217490 [PubMed - in process]
    Anyways, I never drink during the weekdays (which is hard being 21 and living on campus at the #3 party school in the us) but was wondering if selective estrogen receptor modulators, like tamoxifen, would help reduce the increasing endogenous estrogen levels during times of alcohol consumption like on the weekends if one were to binge drink or even have a few beers? Im guessing there is a difference between estrogen levels if one had 2 beers to another person who consumed 12 beers, but, nevertheless, would taking a certain dosage of tamoxifen reduce these levels?

    Also, does one have to worry about liver toxicity with tamoxifen and alcohol? I found this study but i doubt not all of us are menopausal women
    Quote Originally Posted by pubmed
    Blood chemistry profiles in menopausal women administered tamoxifen for breast caocer.

    Lox C, Ronaghan C, Cobos E.

    Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Lubbock 79430, USA.

    1. Menopausal controls not administered estrogen replacement therapy (ERT), or menopausal women taking 10 mg of tamoxifen bid had serum samples collected. 2. When controls were compared to treatment, significant elevations in the TRI (triglycerides), SGOT (serum glutamic oxalacetic transaminase), SGPT (serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase) and the GGT (gamma gluteryl transferase) were found in the tamoxifen group. Liver enzymes were elevated but still within the normal range for the tamoxifen-treated group. 3. The results from this study suggest that the use of tamoxifen citrate for adjuvant therapy in women with breast cancer causes no major alterations in the blood chemistry of menopausal women. The elevations observed were still within the normal ranges of menopausal women with the exception of the triglycerides.

    PMID: 9457492 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    Sorry if this is a dumb question... Any help or feedback would be appreciated..

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    anyone?
  3. Jergo's Avatar
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    This was discussed before sometime last year if I'm not mistaken. I tried doing a search for alcohol to see for sure. But I wasn't able to find anything relevant. From what I remember though, it's not a wise decision. Too bad I can't find the thread and explain why...
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    I have always wondered the same thing... if nolva or clomid would reduce the estrogen spike caused by alcohol consumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    This was discussed before sometime last year if I'm not mistaken. I tried doing a search for alcohol to see for sure. But I wasn't able to find anything relevant. From what I remember though, it's not a wise decision. Too bad I can't find the thread and explain why...
    I remember that too, but can't find anything on it. I thought the consensus was that it may be beneficial to take 10-20mg of nolva to avoid the estrogen spike when drinking. I don't know of anyone who'd tried it though.
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    i was trying to do the same with formestane. probably stupid!
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    Quote Originally Posted by julius kelp
    i was trying to do the same with formestane. probably stupid!

    Formestane effects the HPTA, while nolva or clomid doesn't. So yes, that was pretty stupid.
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    i hope someone can answer this question. i too drink heavily once a week, and i know the alcohol is causing estrogen type bloat and fat accumulation esp in my lower abs. maybe nolva pre/post on heavy alcohol days can help? i took 40mg nolva last nite after drinking yesterday and today i do feel leaner than most days after drinking, but i'm also lethargic as hell. i'm not sure if it's the nolva or just the heavy partying causing my lethargy.
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    Theres a really simple solution to this... dont do it. we choose to live this life we are not forced to. If you want to look your best than the excess calories and metabolic slowdown from alchol has no place in your diet. Coming from a 22 year old fraternity member whos had exactly 8 drinks since his 21st birthday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancelot
    i hope someone can answer this question. i too drink heavily once a week, and i know the alcohol is causing estrogen type bloat and fat accumulation esp in my lower abs. maybe nolva pre/post on heavy alcohol days can help? i took 40mg nolva last nite after drinking yesterday and today i do feel leaner than most days after drinking, but i'm also lethargic as hell. i'm not sure if it's the nolva or just the heavy partying causing my lethargy.
    Those effects are what im looking for (the decreased estrogen side effects).. I've read that the active half-life of tamoxifen is around 5-7 days and was wondering if suppressing estrogen for that long will effect your bodys equilibrium (drinking every weekend would mark the end of last weekends effective dose of tamox... )
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    Eh well then before you go out take some form of antioxidant, look into taking something to make drinking less while still getting the desired effect possible one option is phenibut which supposedly enhances the buzz you get off of alchol with less alchol consumed. An anti estrogen is not a bad idea though I think the increase of estrogen is more one that occurs with chronic use. So if I were going to drink heavily my night would look like this.

    Pre go out .5- 2 gs phenibut
    1g RALA
    500 mg vit C
    600 iu vit E
    SERM if desired

    Drink heavily

    Post go out
    1 g RALA
    500 mg vit C
    pedialyte for rehydration

    bed
  12. Jergo's Avatar
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    Magg, what's pedialyte have in it to rehydrate? Do you use this frequently or rather for what reasons do you use it for? I'm always sweating a ****load during the weekends from yard work, and water is getting old. Does that stuuf taste good?

    About the drinking, I usually drink to get drunk like twice/month. That's when I'm not on a cycle of anything though. When on, I just don't do it, it's as simple as that. But I don't see anything wrong with going out a few weekends during a month to have some fun. Life is supposed to be enjoyed, not endured.

    Having said that, IMO there's a fine line where it is socail and when it becomes a problem. Drinking every other day to even twice/week to get drunk, then IMO you gotta problem. Quit while you're ahead...
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    Quote Originally Posted by maggmaster
    Eh well then before you go out take some form of antioxidant, look into taking something to make drinking less while still getting the desired effect possible one option is phenibut which supposedly enhances the buzz you get off of alchol with less alchol consumed. An anti estrogen is not a bad idea though I think the increase of estrogen is more one that occurs with chronic use. So if I were going to drink heavily my night would look like this.

    Pre go out .5- 2 gs phenibut
    1g RALA
    500 mg vit C
    600 iu vit E
    SERM if desired

    Drink heavily

    Post go out
    1 g RALA
    500 mg vit C
    pedialyte for rehydration

    bed
    People assumed since phenibut is so closely related to GBL/GHB that they will work in a similar manner, but with many discussions over at avant, the general consensus is that it does nothing for potentiating the effects of alcohol. Plus one develops a tolerance for phenibut after usage for a while. I've used it for a month now (2x a week at most) and the effect has greatly diminished. I always supplement anti-oxidents before going out which, i think, is a must for everyone but was mainly concerned about the estrogen spike which would be harder to control through traditional vitamins/minerals and such.

    Over at avant, they have a few discussions that are on going looking for the perfect "going-out" stack but nothing seems to even compare to a GHB/Alcohol stack or Benzo/Alcohol stack which I wont touch without much more knowledge on the substances.. Someone brought up zopiclone (ambien "like") which is a non-benzo but a mild hypnotic agent that gives effects of those like alcohol.. But, again, i dont know much about these substances either..
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    Drinking in and of itself is not bad, I personally love wine and good beer drinking to get hammered occaisonally has negligible efftects on body comp in the avergage highly active person. Drinking excessively regularly is a bad idea. Pedialyte is a baby rehydration formula and it works well in adults to. i have only used it a couple of times, it doesnt taste good but it does work well. i used it when i was drinking more my freshman year and also in highschool when I was training for a marathon. Honestely I was just trying to give my opinion on drinking regularly but I spose it came off alittle strong and stupid. Just like anything else its fine in moderation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    But I don't see anything wrong with going out a few weekends during a month to have some fun. Life is supposed to be enjoyed, not endured
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    For everyone who gets on these forums and says don't drink at all, it's not part of this "lifestyle" we've chosen, etc. Not everyone on here is interested in bodybuilding in a true, competitive since. For me it is a hobby, but I still enjoy going out two or three times a week and drinking too much, as I'm still in college. There are many people who are similar to myself, and want to get bigger, or leaner, but are still going to drink as bodybuilding is only a hobby. That doesn't mean that we don't want to minimize the effects though, and gain as much as possible. Also, (this sounds kind of stupid, and I know everyone says otherwise) I have thought sometimes that maybe the "best time" to drink, might be on cycle. If not on any methyl's, liver damage isn't a bad problem. Likewise, test production is already shut down, and you are injecting above physio. levels, so you aren't shutting down test anymore. Last, if estrogen is a problem for you, you already are probably using an anti-e. So, because of this it almost seems that on cycle would be the best time to drink. Any comments?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    Magg, what's pedialyte have in it to rehydrate? Do you use this frequently or rather for what reasons do you use it for? I'm always sweating a ****load during the weekends from yard work, and water is getting old. Does that stuuf taste good?

    About the drinking, I usually drink to get drunk like twice/month. That's when I'm not on a cycle of anything though. When on, I just don't do it, it's as simple as that. But I don't see anything wrong with going out a few weekends during a month to have some fun. Life is supposed to be enjoyed, not endured.

    Having said that, IMO there's a fine line where it is socail and when it becomes a problem. Drinking every other day to even twice/week to get drunk, then IMO you gotta problem. Quit while you're ahead...
    My football coaches used to give the guys on our team that cramped a lot pedialyte. It's like gatorade on steroids w/out the sugar. I believe it's given to babies w/diarhea for rehydration. It's got electrolytes, and sodium.

    But no it does not taste good at all. The guys that had to take it bitched constantly. I grabbed the wrong bottle one time and took a big gulp so i can speak first hand of how bad this stuff tastes. It does work very well for rehydration though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjflynn
    pedialyte. It's got electrolytes, and sodium.

    But no it does not taste good at all. The guys that had to take it bitched constantly. .
    i use it for those heavy drinking days when i know the next day will be a bad hangover. fortunately for us, there are flavored versions of pedialyte. i used the apple juice flavored and tasted just like apple juice. never tried the unflavored myself.
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    hmm Ill have o try that.
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