TNE a better choice than 4AD for 1-test?
- 07-06-2004, 12:32 PM
- 07-06-2004, 03:17 PM
are you going to be using it transdermal?
- 07-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Yes - i do - definitely.
07-06-2004, 03:52 PM
As far as the sides I'd say definately "No!". I'm currently on T. Prop and M1T and I had to add 4AD back in bec' the 1Test sides were just killing me and the test prop wasn't doing **** for them. I could barely stay awake and I had an all-day headache. Shot 1 Ml of Sledge's Pro-Sust yesterday and now I'm starting to return to normal.
All 3 would probably be the ideal.
07-06-2004, 03:55 PM
WHAT? sledge test would not have kicked in one day. Why would you not have just upped the prop? 4ad sucks - i repeat sucks - compared to Test. (maybee your prop kicked in and thats why you felt "better"? how long had you been on prop?)
07-06-2004, 04:03 PM
I'm talking about the sides from the 1T brolly- the T. prop did nothing for 'em. I love M1t, but the lethargy that comes w/ it is a killer. I figured that the test prop would take care of that, but it didn't. Been on the prop about two weeks. And this was the ProSust I used yesterday. It's got 4AD prop as well as Cyp in it so it gets the 4ad into you fairly quickly. As far as overall gains you're right- real Test has it all over 4Ad, but for lessening the M1T sides some 4AD will make a big, big difference in how you feel.Originally Posted by goldylight
07-07-2004, 01:57 AM
Well, I made great gains off a 4-week T1 cycle a while back. Its about time to hit it up again, but I wanted to make some tweaks to illicit even more lean muscle mass. Im thinking of:
Weeks 1-6 TNE (or 4AD) @ 300mg/day (transdermal)
Weeks 1-6 1,4 dione @ 400mg/day (oral)
Weeks 2-6 1-test @ 170mg/day (transdermal)
With Nolva,7-keto DHEA for PCT.
Id rather use boldenone base transdermally, rather than the 1,4 - but I can't find any for the life of me. Im interested in it mainly for its collagen synthesis properties, and Im hoping 1,4dione will have somewhat of the same effect, in addition to boosting appetite, red blood cell count, etc.
Cactus I wonder why the test isnt working to negate the M1T sides? Ive never used M1T or straight test before, but it would seem that the aromatization of test would be more than enough to ease the negative sides of M1T. Maybe its more androgenic than 4AD and, since M1T is a potent androgen, its adding to the problems?
07-07-2004, 08:48 AM
Why are you going to be using 1-Test, TNE, and 4-AD all at the same time? Seems like you should just drop the 4-AD, dosent it?
If you start a TNE transdermal cycle, please keep a log, I'm looking at trying this once my S1+ cycles are gone.
07-07-2004, 10:53 AM
Note the *OR* 4ADWeeks 1-6 TNE (or 4AD) @ 300mg/day (transdermal)
Ill definately keep a log!
07-07-2004, 11:09 AM
What the hell is TNE?
If it's Test enanthate, why are you putting that in a dermal?
07-07-2004, 11:10 AM
Test no ester - test Base.Originally Posted by Jergo
07-07-2004, 11:13 AM
That makes more sense..
07-07-2004, 12:07 PM
Test base would be better. What is your target for daily amount of testosterone absorbed?
07-07-2004, 12:36 PM
TNE can convert to estrogen but 1-Test cant, so I have heard. Thoughts?
07-07-2004, 01:19 PM
- 6'0" 237 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
Right, it does not aromatize.Originally Posted by Ichi the Killer
As for test base....definitely better than 4-AD base, no doubt in my mind. I figured on about 30% absorption with mine (a guesstimate, but they all are for dermals), 300mg is actually quite a bit, 90mg base daily. That should do very nicely IMO.
07-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Test prop starts really kicking in at the 2 week mark.Originally Posted by Cactus
07-07-2004, 07:05 PM
07-07-2004, 07:31 PM
You know this is NOT allowed.Originally Posted by lancelot
07-07-2004, 08:01 PM
I think he may have been confused since it was being discussed in the PH board, I know that is why I started reading this thread.Originally Posted by size
I think I'm safe in posting this for whoever is interested.
Test base from Synovex-H Step-By-Step
... but if I get busted by a mod for it then you owe me one lancelot!
07-07-2004, 08:24 PM
oops sorry. didn't know or else i wouldn't have posted. i'm guessing it's illegal then? what about for research purposes? i'm confused on this.Originally Posted by size
07-07-2004, 08:26 PM
thanks for the link. looks like alot of work man.Originally Posted by cookmic5
07-07-2004, 09:25 PM
testosterone is a schedule III controlled substance
most research chems are either not regulated at all, or are legend drugs that are by prescription only, but NOT controlled, and when purchased for research purposes are legal. rick collins has done some good posting on this
test, as a schedule III CS is only available in the USA, by prescription.
with prescription, it is legal
07-08-2004, 12:49 AM
Right, it does not aromatize.
As for test base....definitely better than 4-AD base, no doubt in my mind. I figured on about 30% absorption with mine (a guesstimate, but they all are for dermals), 300mg is actually quite a bit, 90mg base daily. That should do very nicely IMO.I was thinking ~500 = 600mg of test base per week would do the trick, 300mg/day transdermal should put me right in that range. Im a decent size guy - 6', ~220#, ~12%BF, from what Ive read that's a good dose. Also, considering I only plan on running the cycle for 6 weeks, I dont run the risk of building up too much test in my system over time.Test base would be better. What is your target for daily amount of testosterone absorbed?
What do you guys think of the addition of 1,4-dione to this stack? Do you think the ratio of 1,4/1-test/TNE is about right? If my math is correct,
300mg TNE/day = ~90mg test/day = 630mg test/week
500mg 1,4dione = ~225mg absorbed/day = ~160mg boldenone/week
170mg 1-test/day = ~50mg absorbed/day = ~350mg 1-test/week
Would it make sense to back off the TNE to 250mg/day and up the 1,4 to 800-900mg/day?
The 1-test is a nice, low dose that shouldnt illicit any serious sides. That's the amount of 1T in BDC T1, and I had no sides to speak of, just great gains in mass and strength.
Think this one will be a winner?
07-08-2004, 01:11 PM
- 6'0" 237 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
I think it's closeOriginally Posted by BigVrunga
I'd keep the TNE around 300mg daily, the 1-test is up to you. I did a higher dosage with TNE, somewhere around 250-300 (don't remember exactly now, think it was 250) and had minor negative sides, but you can probably get away with 170mg just fine.
As for the 1,4......IMHO..... if you already have it, dump it in there at a high dosage, if not don't bother buying more. I don't think you'll have much more benefit with it in addition, many people didn't it seems (including myself). I think of it as an okay PH, but compared to 1-test or TNE it's very weak and doesn't stand up to my cost/benefit model, although yours may be different. Either way I have a feeling you'll like this cycle alot, I did
07-08-2004, 01:21 PM
Eeeexcellent! Thanks for the input, jweave.Originally Posted by jweave23
Hmmm...what Im looking to get out of the 1,4 is the collagen-building properties of boldenone. Although I think a lot of that is theoretical, its worth a try...Ive read that high levels of test can actually make your tendons weaker.
Nandralone is nearly as effective as boldenone in terms of collagen synthesis, I wonder if M4OHN would work along a similar path? Im not sure, I dont know the biology behind it. Might be a nifty additon to the last 4 weeks of the cycle, though at a moderate dosage.
I suppose I could use standard EQ, but its the long acting ester, and I dont want to run a long 12 weeker just to see its positive effects.
07-08-2004, 05:49 PM
I would up the TNE. I used it at 330mg's a day in a dermal and think I could have used a gram ed to be honest with you. It started off well but the effects tapered off pretty quick
07-09-2004, 12:39 AM
How long did you cycle the TNE juiceman? What transdermal gel did you use? 2100mg TNE/week transdermal *should* equal ~630mg/test a week.Originally Posted by Juiceman
330mg/day 4AD with 170mg 1-test was quite a stack for me - I think Ill start off with the test at 300mg a day and add more if I need to.
07-09-2004, 01:08 AM
Why are you using 7keto for pct, and are you using absolved, or fl7/ 7 cort?Originally Posted by BigVrunga
07-09-2004, 05:02 PM
I think it lasted about 9 weeks and then I ran out of juice, don't know how that happened cause I had everything planned to the T. Yeah in theory it should equal 630mg/test a week but I don't think so. I am going on a cycle of test cyp and eq in a couple of months so I'll be able to compare it a little bit better but like I said I don't think it came close to 630. I noticed most of my gains in the first 4-5 weeks when i was using m1,4add to kick it off. After that was done I started losing weight and some strength if I remember correctly......could check my log book. I even upped my cals and protein intake but I just started to get a bit to sloppy so I backed off. Oh and I forgot to mention I was using T-gel and once I noticed when my gains were slowing down I used DMSO with it to maybe help with absorbtion but don't think that worked to well either. It was a good learning experience and now that I could care less about pinning I never will ever go back to that bull**** again.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
Hope I am not discouraging you to much bro. If you do follow out with your plan I wish you the best of luck, and let me know how it all works out for you.
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