hcg idea

[jdj16]

i've been thinking about this idea for a bit...and wondered if there was any validity to it.

i know that the typical cycle protocol is to begin pct immediately after cessation of the oral steroid. this is true whether or not hcg was used on cycle. if you had a way to bounce your test levels back up to normal for say a week and let the exogenous hormones completely leave your body, would pct be any easier?

i know that chocolatemilk talked about this as in simply using hcg for a week or two after the cycle and prior to pct. the thing that seemed awkward to me was that your nuts were shut down during cycle, and would 2 weeks be enough to essentially kick start them again? I've been using hcg throughout my entire cycle so shutdown hasn't happened. would taking the week after my final dosing of prohormone and continuing to inject hcg while waiting on pct be beneficial at all?

 

[Presa]

Hmmmm? Have you tested the hcg, first and foremost. Just because there are LOTS of fakes due to it's popularity; so says llewellyn.

I'm interested in this, and all hcg use for muscle building purposes. Keep us posted if you get some good feedback. Peace.

 

[timmmah]

I want to see what the answer is, but like chocolatemilks idea

 

[jdj16]

Hmmmm? Have you tested the hcg, first and foremost. Just because there are LOTS of fakes due to it's popularity; so says llewellyn.

I'm interested in this, and all hcg use for muscle building purposes. Keep us posted if you get some good feedback. Peace.

i never tested it, but i've been using it for the past 5.5 weeks and haven't had any shutdown symptoms at all, so i'm pretty sure its legit.

 

[neverstop]

I usually do this just to make sure that whatever steroid is in my blood has plenty of time to clear. I'm convinced that most people have tough PCTs with deca or other long lasting gear because they simply don't understand the concept of half life and instead just wait 2 weeks or something where as the way I see it you need to give your body at least 4 after your last long acting shot.

just be careful to keep the HCG doses low though, no need to desensitize your body to LH right before PCT

 

[jdj16]

I usually do this just to make sure that whatever steroid is in my blood has plenty of time to clear. I'm convinced that most people have tough PCTs with deca or other long lasting gear because they simply don't understand the concept of half life and instead just wait 2 weeks or something where as the way I see it you need to give your body at least 4 after your last long acting shot.

just be careful to keep the HCG doses low though, no need to desensitize your body to LH right before PCT

thats exactly what made me think of doing this. what kind of hcg dosing do you typically run with? less than the normal 500iu a week?

 

[chocolatemilk]

Desensitization doesn't happen unless you are using extremely large doses.

Many hCG PCT protocols involve taking 1000iu+ E3D or even in shorter time span like ED. Doctors normally prescribe 2500-5000ius/day.

Neverstop makes a good point about half lives. That comes into play when using injectables with long esters and half lives but when dealing with oral steroids they will usually clear your system in 3-5 days so it won't really matter when you start PCT.

I usually extend hCG for a few weeks after the cycle in conjunction with a SERM. I find it to retain gains as you don't spend time in a low T state to lose gains. LH output is going to increase while using the SERM and the testes will be functional and receptive to the signal when using a small dose of hCG (I do like 250iu E3D in PCT--that's really nothing and a tiny dose in the scheme of things). I usually do that for 2-3 weeks so when I stop the hCG my LH output has risen enough due to the SERM and can continue to use the SERM to carry me from there so I won't spend time in a low T state.

Bigzach has used an hCG PCT which involves the use of 1000's of ius almost daily IIRC. He retained pretty much all of his gains from the cycle and he doesn't have any problems with desensitization. Desensitization is nothing to worry about if you're using 500iu/week. That is really chump change and a tiny dose. I have found small doses retains gains as well IME as I don't spend time in a low T state upon cessation of steroids thanks to a SERM & hCG "bridge."

 

[jdj16]

so you're coinciding the serm and hcg? I thought that hcg would shut you down at the pituitary so that a serm would kind of be negated until the exogenous hormones were gone. Does pituitary shutdown work differently then or am I missing this?

 

[chocolatemilk]

so you're coinciding the serm and hcg? I thought that hcg would shut you down at the pituitary so that a serm would kind of be negated until the exogenous hormones were gone. Does pituitary shutdown work differently then or am I missing this?

LH hasn't been found to have a feedback loop existing on itself. For example if you inject testosterone, it shuts down natural testosterone. If you inject hCG, it does not decrease LH. I have a study I can dig up later that shows this, and that 10,000 iu injections showed no effect on LH.

(notice how large of a dose researchers gave out without hesitation--obviously they are not worried about desensitization--compare that 10,000iu dose to your 500iu per week lol--nothing to worry about)

There is also a study on the case of a bodybuilder who after taking steroids developed hypogonadism. He was treated with hCG for 3 months and developed testicular function back after the discontinuation of hCG.

Had hCG been suppressive, you would think that it would have been hurting him the whole time, not helping him.

It's thought that the suppression that comes from hCG is simply coming from the rise in Testosterone. Obviously if you have too much T in the body, the body will do whatever it can to decrease the amount of T most likely by decreasing LH. So unless you are taking large doses of hCG which will increase T too much and cause a negative feedback on LH, you don't have any serious issues to worry about.

Keeping the doses of hCG small does not produce enough testosterone to start hurting you in a negative feedback but you still want to produce enough to not spend time in a low T state during PCT. People like to go in the thousands of IU's sometimes which I wouldn't do, I like to stick to 250iu E3-4D for all cycle AND PCT purposes.

 

[jdj16]

LH hasn't been found to have a feedback loop existing on itself. For example if you inject testosterone, it shuts down natural testosterone. If you inject hCG, it does not decrease LH. I have a study I can dig up later that shows this, and that 10,000 iu injections showed no effect on LH.

(notice how large of a dose researchers gave out without hesitation--obviously they are not worried about desensitization--compare that 10,000iu dose to your 500iu per week lol--nothing to worry about)

There is also a study on the case of a bodybuilder who after taking steroids developed hypogonadism. He was treated with hCG for 3 months and developed testicular function back after the discontinuation of hCG.

Had hCG been suppressive, you would think that it would have been hurting him the whole time, not helping him.

It's thought that the suppression that comes from hCG is simply coming from the rise in Testosterone. Obviously if you have too much T in the body, the body will do whatever it can to decrease the amount of T most likely by decreasing LH. So unless you are taking large doses of hCG which will increase T too much and cause a negative feedback on LH, you don't have any serious issues to worry about.

Keeping the doses of hCG small does not produce enough testosterone to start hurting you in a negative feedback but you still want to produce enough to not spend time in a low T state during PCT. People like to go in the thousands of IU's sometimes which I wouldn't do, I like to stick to 250iu E3-4D for all cycle AND PCT purposes.

awesome. i really appreciate you getting back to us on this too. I think i'll give that a try this time as i've got about 10 days left on cycle before i get to pct.

 

[MikeGfilms]

I have never used hcg, but have herd of people mega dosing it the first week of pct. I usually start my clomid the week before pct starts. Seems to help my recover better, plus give you bigger loads around the time when you dropping alot of volume.