Stopping low estrogen issues while on Havoc/epistane

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    Stopping low estrogen issues while on Havoc/epistane


    How would one go about adding a bit of extra estrogen while on a cycle with havoc/epi.
    Mainly want to maximize gains plus stop my joints from hurting too much so thinking what else could i add to that stack.
    Was planning on stacking with Tren-E and Formestane PCT with some nolva.
    Adding lots of joint supps and maybe some DHEA for libido/maybe some extra estrogen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerouStyle View Post
    How would one go about adding a bit of extra estrogen while on a cycle with havoc/epi.
    Mainly want to maximize gains plus stop my joints from hurting too much so thinking what else could i add to that stack.
    Was planning on stacking with Tren-E and Formestane PCT with some nolva.
    Adding lots of joint supps and maybe some DHEA for libido/maybe some extra estrogen.
    DHEA will aromatize, at least somewhat, so it may be an option- I wouldn't go crazy trying to add too much in- and I would try drinking quite a bit of water and fish oil as well....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Yeah got bulk fish oil always take it anyway.
    How much DHEA would you recommend?
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    There was actually a thread about lowering cortisol right above this- and DHEA may be a bad choice b/c it does have some effects on lowering cortisol...

    This is probably the main issue you are running into with sore joints- some PHs, DHEA, 7-Keto, and some AAS analogs have been shown to compete with inactive glucocorticoids for the 11beta-HSD1 enzyme, thus reducing the conversion of inactive glucocorticoids to their active, muscle-catabolic form via receptor site antagonism. A good example would be a reduction in the conversion of cortisone to cortisol, which is a process dependant on the 11beta-HSD1 enzyme. 7-Keto DHEA and some AAS work through this fashion and have been shown to reduce this conversion; thereby lowering cortisol levels....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerouStyle View Post
    Yeah got bulk fish oil always take it anyway.
    How much DHEA would you recommend?
    Fish oil- about 3 grams per day

    As far as DHEA- I am not sure it will help, and it may actually be counterproductive- if the issue is low estrogen, it will help, but if it is low cortisol, it will make things much worse. You know your body better than me- I would suggest adding it in slowly to see if it helps (like 25 mg per day). If you get an increase in joint pain, you have your answer...if it decreases joint pain, I would bring the dosage up a little more until you find what works for you. Not very scientific, but I am not sure what is causing the pain- could be several different factors
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    The answer to everything is hcg on the swale/dr. crsiler protocol of 250mg 2-3x per week while on cycle. Makes PCT easier (no loss of LH sensitivity at the testes), lubricates joints, improves liver function and lipids, decreases lethargy/night sweats. Hcg is the **** and i will never ever run a cycle without it.

    and neither should you.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post
    The answer to everything is hcg on the swale/dr. crsiler protocol of 250mg 2-3x per week while on cycle. Makes PCT easier (no loss of LH sensitivity at the testes), lubricates joints, improves liver function and lipids, decreases lethargy/night sweats. Hcg is the **** and i will never ever run a cycle without it.

    and neither should you.

    Agreed- it is an excellent protocol and can really cut your recovery time significantly...

    Just make sure you don't use it too much longer than you need to- your testes can become desensitized to HCG after too long a utilization period
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerouStyle View Post
    How would one go about adding a bit of extra estrogen while on a cycle with havoc/epi.
    Mainly want to maximize gains plus stop my joints from hurting too much so thinking what else could i add to that stack.
    Was planning on stacking with Tren-E and Formestane PCT with some nolva.
    Adding lots of joint supps and maybe some DHEA for libido/maybe some extra estrogen.
    Dermacrine transdermal will help. I noticed a major difference after a few days in my joints, they move much more smoothly and throw some fish oil in with it, you are good to go. It won't raise it too high just bring it more into balance so it is not in the dumps and causing issues.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Dermacrine transdermal will help. I noticed a major difference after a few days in my joints, they move much more smoothly and throw some fish oil in with it, you are good to go. It won't raise it too high just bring it more into balance so it is not in the dumps and causing issues.
    Think i will add some Dermacrine its got DHEA and Pregnenolone in it.
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    Would adding a oral contraceptive like ethynl estradiol help?
    Ethynylestradiol pronounced also ethynyl estradiol (EE), is a derivative of estradiol. Ethynyl estradiol is an orally bio-active estrogen used in almost all modern formulations of combined oral contraceptive pills. It is one of the most commonly used medications.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerouStyle View Post
    Would adding a oral contraceptive like ethynl estradiol help?
    Ethynylestradiol pronounced also ethynyl estradiol (EE), is a derivative of estradiol. Ethynyl estradiol is an orally bio-active estrogen used in almost all modern formulations of combined oral contraceptive pills. It is one of the most commonly used medications.
    Don't do that... it's simply not worth the risk of taking birth control.

    DAA could help by stimulating the testes, but like others said, HCG is the only real way unless you use a test base like testosterone or dermacrine.
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    my vote goes to dermacrine!

    although, it looks like it's going to be hard to come by...
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    Quote Originally Posted by delsolrob View Post
    my vote goes to dermacrine!

    although, it looks like it's going to be hard to come by...
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Dermacrine transdermal will help.
    Exactly what I was about to recommend.

    This works wonders
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlackGuy View Post
    Don't do that... it's simply not worth the risk of taking birth control.
    !
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    did you just say you were considering tren-E?

    If you are going to run tren-E, run some test E as well...the test will fix everything. Hence the reason oral only's suck d*ck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    did you just say you were considering tren-E?

    If you are going to run tren-E, run some test E as well...the test will fix everything. Hence the reason oral only's suck d*ck.
    The man speaks the truth, of you are running an injectible AAS like Tren or anything else for that matter, you need real test as a base. Sust/Cyp/Enathate though I would assume with a long cycle using tren, Cyp/Enathate would be the wisest choices.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
  

  
 

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