Stacking 4-AD with M1T. Decreases gains?

[ShredHead]

I know a lot of people recommend taking 4-AD with 1-test products, but I was told that taking 4-AD with it could potentially decrease the gains you could see since both hormones would compete for the same receptors. I was therefore recommended just to take the M1T without 4-AD.

Thoughts?

[Beelzebub]

Sounds like a load of BS to me. I've done both types of cycles and can personally attest that trans 4AD with M1T is a kick ass cycle. Much better than M1T solo.

[DR.D]

With 1-test you should not use too much 4ad but w/ m1t, stacking 4ad is not a problem.

[ShredHead]

With 1-test you should not use too much 4ad but w/ m1t, stacking 4ad is not a problem.

This is what I had thought as well.

[milwood]

4AD + M1T works. And well, synergistically. That's my experience...

[rebelhead]

I was doing a cycle of 1-test cyp and 4-ad prop with pretty good results, about 10 lbs in 6 weeks. I've done several aas and ph cycles in the past so 10 lbs is pretty good now days. BTW the ph's around now are about as good as any illeagle roids i've ever done if you do em right. Back to the point though, my ass starting hurting from all the pinning and I decided to give the M1t a try for about 2 weeks. I let all of the 1-test cyp and 4-ad prop get pretty much out of my system, and started the M-1T. I started getting leaner and gaining about a lb every day for the first 6 days. I was pleased. But I decided to start back with a little 4-ad prop. Couldn't hurt right? WRONG. I did 50mg 1 day and had no effect. Then about 2 days latter, I did 200mg of 4-ad prop. My gains stopped completely and I even started to get smaller it seemed. I mean quick. I didn't know what the deal was. It didn't make sense to me ; that **** about competing for the same receptors you know but it may be true. I stopped the 4-ad prop and continued the M1T and the gains started back about 3 days after that last shot of 4-ad. I ended up gaining 10 additional lbs in 3 weeks on the m1t at 30mg ED by itself though. So I wouldn't stack it with 4AD again. It may just be me , but I read another post by a guy that said his gains stopped when he started the 4ad also. If you are not gaining what you expected to from m1t and stacking it with 4ad, then try it by itself a couple of weeks. Just my opinion. BTW I didn't have any sides from the M1T that I couldn't handle. Lethargy a little but lots of steroids cause lethargy to me. Not just M1T. I think its as strong as any anabolic I've done. Good stuff..

[DR.D]

First, they do compete for SHBG but not the androgen receptor, so it can be an issue. M1t stacked w/ reg test doesn't do it BTW and is a mighty fine combo indeed. Second, most use the 4ad to fight the sides of m1t. Obviously, side effects are the same as benefits, just on the other end of the spectrum of the drugs effects. So, to lose some side effects usually means compromising some good effects as well. If you can take 30mg/d w/out any unusual sides, then you're just one of the very small percent that can (I can't do over 10mg) But I agree w/ you that m1t is the strongest steroid mg/mg that I have even encountered, and I've done more that just "several" cycles over the years.

[ShredHead]

THANKS, Rebelhead and Dr. D.

Very good info.

[SJA]

With 1-test you should not use too much 4ad but w/ m1t, stacking 4ad is not a problem.

Why is this? I've ran M1T by itself and couldn't handle the side. So I stacked it with 4AD (my fav) and felt great. In terms of gains, I was stronger but didn't see a significant weight gain (other than water weight from teh 4AD). I was contemplating trying M14ADD stacked with 4AD instead of M1t for a Fall bulk. So this really intrigues me. Please elaborate as this may make me lean towards the M14ADD instead.

[DR.D]

Why is this? I've ran M1T by itself and couldn't handle the side. So I stacked it with 4AD (my fav) and felt great. In terms of gains, I was stronger but didn't see a significant weight gain (other than water weight from teh 4AD). I was contemplating trying M14ADD stacked with 4AD instead of M1t for a Fall bulk. So this really intrigues me. Please elaborate as this may make me lean towards the M14ADD instead.

OK, basicly all 17-methylated steroids bind to SHBG pretty well, but not so well to the AR. 17-Non-alkylated steroids bind to AR well but ususally get displaced from the SHBG by the methyls because the methyls have greater binding affinity. That's why people stack a base or ester w/ an oral(methyl) For example, if you stack test and m1t, the m1t will displace a lot of the test off of the SHBG thus increasing your free test levels and giving better results than you would get w/ either one if used alone. Low dose 4ad should be fine w/ m1t UNLESS you use too much and then they antagonize each other at the SHBG. As for the m14, it works great w/ m1t. I used 40mg/d w/ 10mg m1t and the lethary was gone. I was also stacking w/ some trans test.

[ShredHead]

A M1T + 1,4-AD sounds good. I think I'm just going to go with M1T by itself this time around though. Thanks Dr. D.