*DNP* general discussion
- 06-29-2004, 01:33 AM
*DNP* general discussion
I just got off a cycle, and i am up to 230 lbs (6ft)
I put on some serious serious mass this time, i had my nutrition in great check.
Anyways, I also put on some fat mass
So i was thinking,...... about DNP, anyone use it? how is it? POSITIVES ? NEGATIVES? Lets see if we can get a good discussion started.
I have already tried t3 and clen, just looking for a different thing i guess..............
Thanks in advance for any and all input
- 06-29-2004, 01:36 AM
- 06-29-2004, 01:43 AM
This info on DNP was originally posted by Heretic on the VIP board... it's kinda long but a good read.
I have posted this on several other boards, I thought I had it posted here as well but apparently not. For anyone curious about DNP or even those who have used it, this pretty much answers all the questions you could have about proper use, side effects, and risks. It also disproves a lot of the myths circulating about DNP.
Credit to the gods that wrote this...
HOW TO NOT **** UP DNP:
Since some guys have been playing around and disrespecting DNP and then griping to the forums about the painful results, we need to make this VERY specific and VERY correct so that people won't keep jumping for DNP out of curiosity, or without the willpower they need to operate this respondibly. So here are my experienced guidelines to using it the RIGHT way.
FIRST GUIDLINE: Dosing. Use ONLY 200mg a day for the first four days. I don't care that you don't "feel" anything yet and you wanna bump it up. DNP accumulates in the body, and not "feeling" something means NOTHING. It's there, and it's working (the effect on metabolism begins within two hours of the first dose!). Four days will let you test your tolerance: do you have an allergy? Does it give you a rash? etc.
Only after those four days do you bump it up, by 200mg a day. The average dose is 400-600/day, and more than that gets a little severe. A full gram is the highest dose I've heard anyone use. I've used that much, and it's hell. I like to stay around 600 a day, which is HOT but safe and effective. Take caps even hours apart through the day, ending about 4-5 PM.
SECOND GUIDLINE...How to eat on DNP. This is purely personal experience, because some guys like to carb-deplete *before* using DNP (then eat carbs as usual while on), and other guys like a low-carb approach throughout. Both are fine. Using DNP is the only time that fructose is a desireable cutting carb, because it keeps the liver replentished. That reduces lethargy and spares muscle.
Be aware that eating high-carb foods WILL increase the heat sensation within an hour, and last about 2 hours. That means don't eat carbs before bed unless you want those night sweats to be even WORSE.
Personally, I ate whatever the hell I wanted! IHOP, chinese, fajitas...Yes, I burned hot, but I still lost 1.5 pounds every 2 days. Keep protein HIGH for muscles' sake, and try it yourself.
Foods I suggest including:
Blueberry yogurt. Blueberries are excellent antioxidants, and yogurt cultures help with digestive function, gas, and stool consistency (disgustingly soft stools are common during DNP).
Oregano-based foods. Oregano is perhaps one of the most potent antioxidants around,a nd one spoonful counts as a vegetable serving. See this article
Pineapple - I've found that pineapple helps alleviate those "DNP Blues". The fructose helps, and pineapple enzymes aid in protein digestion.
V8 - one 12-ounce can supplies six servings of veggies, concentrated as an excellent source of antioxidants, lycopene, and recovery of electrolytes.
Oatmeal - high-fiber foods are necessary. You'll find out why around, oh, day 5 or so. Trust me.
THIRD GUIDELINE...Supplements and DNP. I suggest:
ECA - DNP is not a stimulant. To keep energy high and aid in fat loss, use an ECA. Some advisors suggest that regular ephedrine is preferable to norephedrine because of the more direct "hit" of energy.
Prohormones - perfectly fine on DNP. I used 1-AD just to help keep strength and muscle up, and it worked fine. No problems here. You won't GROW muscle on DNP, but it'll help with strength and protection.
Obvious stuff - multivitamin, ZMA, etc.
Biotest PowerDrive - No, I'm not pimping Biotest. But PowerDrive is an excellent pre-workout mixture that actually works. Plus it's low-carb (only 15 calories total), so it won't cause carb-heat in the middle of your workout.
Antioxidants - I'm giving my own personal list, and why I use them:
Alpha Lipoic Acid - aids in fat management and blood sugar, and an excellent antioxidant.
Grape seed extract
Inositol - mood enhancement, antioxidant, and muscle support. 1 gram/3x day
Ellagic acid - protects cell DNA/RNA from damage by free radicals, and may even atack cancerous cells. 400mg/twice a day
Fruit antioxidants - beyond-a-century's powder of high-potency natural fruit anti's. 1 gram, 2-3x day.
Trimethylglyceine - antioxidant, helps move fat and blood lipids into the liver and out of the body. 500mg, 2x day.
Vitamins E and C
Supplements NOT to use:
Any medications that suppress energy. No allergy meds, antidepressants, muscle relaxers, or beta blockers. DNP will have you low as it is; don't worsen your body's energy by taking something that suppresses you further.
DRUGS - Sheesh, you'd think I wouldn't have to mention this, but two idiots in particular (right here on this forum) recently affirmed that some people still just don't get it. NO alcohol (not even "moderate"), NO ecstasy, NO GHB, etc. If you don't have the willpower to forego these habits, DNP is not for you.
Syntrax Swole - a personal discovery. I tried Swole while on DNP...once. Two hours of hell, feeling inside-out.
FOURTH GUIDELINE...working out on DNP. Keep lifting short, 30-40 minutes. DNP works very well, causing your body to use 150% or more the calories per action you'd normally use. That means DON'T try to repeat your usual workouts. Drop to moderate weights, 8-12 reps, not to failure, and with plenty of walking rest between sets. You are NOT going to grow muscle on DNP, so don't use your usual heavy routine. Since DNP can cause light-headedness and heat dizzyness, you have my permission to skip squats in favor of leg presses this time.
Cardio is a controversial one. My advice - do NOT do cardio on high doses of DNP (600mg or more). It's dangerous and counterproductive. Below that amount, some cardio is fine, but keep it to 20 minutes and not at full-gallop. Remember, DNP will drain water from your quickly, causing you to leech out minerals, vitamins, and salts. Don't overdo it.
During exercise, consume at least 1 liter of water per 30 minutes of work, whether you're thirsty or not. DNP is evil in the way it blunts thirst, while at the same time doing the cruel trick of bloating your body with water WHILE dehydrating you from water in your organs. MAKE yourself drink. Always folllow DNP exercise with antioxidants, carbs, and this is a good time to use your multivitamin.
Don't feel embarrassed about poor workouts. Just this morjning I did a workout with a whopping nine sets (wimp!) before calling it quits. Listen to your body, and let it tell you when enough's enough; don't guage workouts by what you *usually* can do otherwise.
Here's my research. This is AMAZING! Not only has not a single test found it to be carcinogenic, but test after tyest after test find that DNP actually ATTACKS cancer cells, and helps anti-cancer medications work better, and helps anti-leukemia medications work without destroying cell DNA, and suppresses tumor growth by 20-50%. The summaries are all right here, friends. Karma me up!
DNP is Ames negative, and does not promote tumors. See for yourself at http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/dinitrop.html reports on health risks. While there have not been human studies, animal studies found no cancers caused by DNP administration. It is considered a toxin because it causes nausea, sweating, and weight loss.
http://www.cyberiron.com/drugs/dinitrophenol.html reports on halth risks from external exposue. In other words, don’t get it in your eyes, or on your skin if you’re allergic. Pretty elementary stuff.
http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm This animal study documents a 64% increase in metabolism. "These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate..." Duh.
http://www.zymed.com/pdf/04-xxxx/04-8300.pdf A PDF file about an antidote to DNP.
http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage
"Comparative study of toxicity of 4-nitrophenol and 2,4-dinitrophenol in newborn and young rats." Koizumi M, Yamamoto Y, Ito Y, Takano M, Enami T, Kamata E, Hasegawa R. Division of Risk Assessment, National Institute of Health Sciences, 1-18-1 Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan. This study found that DNP can induce death in overdosed amounts, but that up to that point no toxicity was evident, nor were there any abnormalities in physical development.
"Phenol toxicity and conjugation in human colonic epithelial cells." Pedersen G, Brynskov J, Saermark T. Dept of Medical Gastroenterology, Herlev University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark.. This study found that DNP has a toxic effect on cells of the colon, with "toxic" defined in two ways: first, it interfered with metabolism (this we know—it’s the intended effect of DNP users!) and second, it interfered with bowel inflammation (not a health risk. This is caused by osmotic effect, with the worst results being softened stools and gas).
"Mechanisms of bacterial resistance to macrolide antibiotics." Nakajima Y. Division of Microbiology, Hokkaido College of Pharmacy, 7-1 Katsuraoka-cho, Otaru, Hokkaido 047-0264, Japan. This study found that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could be thwarted with DNP. "the extent of the accumulated drug in a resistant cell increases as much as that in a susceptible cell in the presence of an uncoupling agent such as…2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP)."
"Absence of Crabtree effect in human melanoma cells adapted to growth at low pH: reversal by respiratory inhibitors." Burd R, Wachsberger PR, Biaglow JE, Wahl ML, Lee I, Leeper DB. Departments of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107, USA. Check this out—DNP actually helps make melanoma tumors easier to attack by increasing ratio of oxygen consumption to lactic acid production, while glycolysis remains the same. "Therefore, tumor acute acidification and oxygenation can be achieved by exposure…"
"New insights in the cellular processing of platinum antitumor compounds, using fluorophore-labeled platinum complexes and digital fluorescence microscopy."
Molenaar C, Teuben JM, Heetebrij RJ, Tanke HJ, Reedijk J. Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Leiden University Medical Centre, The Netherlands. DNP is used as a control in tests of antitumor cells because it does NOT bind to cell DNA, nor promote tumors, yet its staining abilities enable tracking of the uptake of antitumor drugs.
Specific inhibition of breast cancer cells by antisense poly-DNP-oligoribonucleotides and targeted apoptosis." Ru K, Taub ML, Wang JH. Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York, Buffalo 14260-3000, USA Are you ready for this? DNP actually INHIBITS (!!!) breast cancers! Yes, not only does it NOT promote cancers, it’s being recognized as a cancer-fighter/blocker. "Two membrane-permeable and RNase-resistant antisense poly-2'-O-(2,4-dinitrophenyl)-oligoribonucleotides (poly-DNP-RNAs) have been synthesized as inhibitors of human breast cancer…fluorescence assay indicates that the targeted antisense inhibition by poly-DNP-RNAs leads to apoptosis of SK-Br-3 cells but does not affect nontumorigenic MCF-10A cells. The control poly-DNP-RNAs with random or sense nucleotide sequence are completely inactive." Plain English? DNP can be synthesized as an anti-cancer compound, because tests show that it blocks mutagens but does NOT affect non-mutagenic (healthy) cells, and has no RNA effects on them.
"Heat shock protein induction by certain chemical stressors is correlated with their cytotoxicity, lipophilicity and protein-denaturing capacity." Neuhaus-Steinmetz U, Rensing L. Institute of Cell Biology, Biochemistry and Biotechnology, NW II University of Bremen, Germany. The thermic effect of DNP induces protein synthesis (heat shock protein, or HSP, synthesis). In fact, it’s quite GOOD at it: "ASA, DNP and CCCP induced HSP at lower concentrations than substances with a similar lipophilicity…"
"Comparative effects of the metabolic inhibitors 2,4-dinitrophenol and iodoacetate on mouse neuroblastoma cells in vitro." Andres MI, Repetto G, Sanz P, Repetto M.
National Institute of Toxicology, Seville, Spain. In this study, DNP’s observed effect was an increase in metabolism (duh!), while the other toxins compared to it had harmful in vitro effects but no increase in metabolism.
"Inhibition of uncoupled respiration in tumor cells. A possible role of mitochondrial Ca2+ efflux." Gabai VL.Medical Radiology Research Center, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Obninsk. DNP not only does not cause tumors, but it inhibited their respiration by 20-25% compared to controls.
"Amsacrine-induced lesions in DNA and their modulation by novobiocin and 2,4-dinitrophenol." Shibuya ML, Buddenbaum WE, Don AL, Utsumi H, Suciu D, Kosaka T, Elkind MM. Department of Radiology and Radiation Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523. In this study, researchers found that DNP abrogates—or disrupts—cytotoxicity in hamsters (using cancerous cells). They expected to find that DNP would interfere with anticancer treatments, but instead found that DNP increased their effects. They state, though, that they cannot claim a proven effect of DNP on anticancer treatments yet, although they do agree that treatment with DNP actually enhanced the effects of the DNA regenerative therapy of anticancer chemotherapy.
"Induction of endonucleolytic DNA cleavage in human acute myelogenous leukemia cells by etoposide, camptothecin, and other cytotoxic anticancer drugs: a cautionary note." Kaufmann SH. Oncology Center, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland 21205. The authors warn that certain anti-leukemia drugs resulted in "extensive DNA degradation." BUT (good ol’ DNP to the rescue!), "Preincubation with dinitrophenol abolished the effect…"
"[Dependence of the nature of the action of metabolic inhibitors on ribosomal RNA synthesis in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cells on cell integrity]" [Article in Russian] Akhlynina TV, Buzhurina IM, Panov MA, Rozovskaia IA, Chernaia NG. DNP actually inhibits the synthesis of RNA in carcinoma cells. In other words, it helps cancerous cells commit suicide by neutering themselves. "Ribosomal RNA (rRNA) synthesis in the intact Ehrlich ascite carcinoma cells is selectively inhibited by papaverin (ED50 = 0.01 mM), 2,4-dinitrophenol (DPN; ED50 = 5 microM), and actinomycin D (ED50 = 0.1 microgram/ml)."
"Autocatabolism of surface macromolecules shed by human melanoma cells." Bystryn JC, Perlstein J. Cancer Res 1982 Jun;42(6):2232-7. This study finds that DNP helps melanoma cells die (autocatabolize) while other cells are unaffected.
http://www.geocities.com/byggdegstor/dnpforside - tons of research, including medical studies. Excerpts:
DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation © 1996 Robert Ames)
Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."
"Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."
"it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."
"Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."
"Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."
"dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."
Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.
Why you might want to use DNP.
Add some DNP to an animals diet. DNP can get metabolism up at least 50% which is conservative as some say 75%This would mean if the animal eats 3000calories maintenance they are now at 1500 calories a day with no change in diet! A 2500 calorie a day would leave them with 1250 calories a day. There are 4086 calories in 1lb of fat and at 3000 calories a day your DNP adjusted calories for the day is 1500. Multiply that x 7 days to give you 10500 calorie deficit which is 2.5 lbs of fat loss for the week. At the 2500 calorie you have a 2.14 lb fat loss. These are both below what the BO diets claim and you don't have to stop eating!
If your animals weigh around 200lbs their effective dose is 400mg and the max can be as high as 800mg a day.
High fat diets market on the basis that you are going to be able to lose 1.5-2lbsof fat by just changing your diet!
1 gram of fat is 9 calories. There are 454grams in a 1 pound. This gives you 4086 calories for 1lb of fat. If you want to lose that 1lb of fat you have to have a 4086 calorie deficit to do it. In other words, you need -4086calories in your diet if you want to lose 1 lb of fat. Now, Let's say you are at 3000 cal a day for maintenance. That is 21000 calories a week. You believe the marketing of the post above and think you can lose 1.5lbs of fat. That, my friends, is 6129 calories which you have to subtract from 21000 which leaves you with 14871 calories for the week or 2124 calories a day. You are going from 3000 to 2124 a day. If you want to lose that great sounding 2pounds you are now at 12828 for the week or 1832 calories a day.
Let's be realistic and put you at 2500maintenance calories. To lose 1.5lb you now need 11371 calories a week or 1624calories a day or a nearly 900 calorie a day change. To lose the magical 2lb aweek you need 9328 calories for the week or 1333 calories a day or a 1167calorie change per day! That is rather difficult, but let's add some DNP which can get you metabolism up at least 50%which would mean you are now at only 1500 calories a day for a 3000 calorie diet with no change in diet! A 2500calorie a day would leave you with 1250 calories a day.
These are both below what the BO diets claim and you don't have to stop eating!
What you want to keep in mind
Everyone is different.
Don't take it on an empty stomach or it will feel like you have indigestion for most of the day.
I wanted to stress not to just go balls out(5mg/kg) and you should move up gradually on DNP for your first experience.
If you have an allergic reaction with red spots and itching then stop the DNP and get some Benadryl and then you should be able to start again.
The type of diet will also affect how you feel, as well as the type of workouts you are doing. These are variables you also will have to figure out for yourself. The logic of my dieting regimen follows that while you are DNP all the glycogen/glucose is being scavenged to provide ATP for the mitochondria so you will want to eat a regular diet. High fat BO is not going to help you build muscle even though DNP is anti-proteolytic (protein sparing).. Furthermore, when you eat fat it is morelikely to go to fat! That is scientifically proven. So if I'm trying to burn fat, why would I want to eat it right back?
DNP is anti-proteolytic which means it uses carbohydrates or fats exclusively to supply energy for the mitochondria and does not facilitate muscle breakdown, however, this does not therefore mean DNP is positive for muscle building. The cells are running on overdrive and they are not going to be looking to make themselves bigger which requires even more energy.
Everyone is different and other supplements you take will affect your results, but as a whole, most people are not going to do well or feel well on high fat and DNP. I also have found that taking particular supplements helps with how will you feel while on the DNP.
I feel better when I don't do huge carbs, however, when I don't do any as in high fat type diets, my workouts suffer just the same. Each individual has to decide for themselves and put those factors into perspective with what their goals are and how fast they want to accomplish them and how bad they are willing to feel for the desired weight loss.
WARNING: DNP will turn everything and anything yellow including skin, clothes, carpet, and hair. I dropped a capsule in my DNP container and bent over to look for it and my hair touched the edge of the container and my hair got dyed yellow! My hair did not even touch the DNP, but just the side of the container for about 2 seconds! DNP for the most part is not removable or bleachable with normal chemicals. It will also track. By that I mean, you think you have washed it off your hands and you touch something and later you see yellow spots on what you touched. If you are making caps you need 2 pairs of gloves, at least, as the DNP goes through the first pair due to an atrraction it has for moisture. DNP sublimes and floats. Due to this sublimation it will land on EVERYTHING if you leave it out even if there is noair circulation. DNP goes through EVERYTHING including plastic, hdpe plastic, pet plastic, plastic bags, nitrile and latex gloves. It can be washed ou tof clothing with hot water and detergents that have phenolic compounds in them such as Tide. DNP is not solvated bylaquer thinner, acetone, paint thinner or turpentine or any of the common organic solvents. If you wash your hands immediately after touching DNP with gamma-butyrolactone, otherwise know as GBL and use to make GHB, and then a detergent such as Dawn dishwashing soap, the stain will come out for the most part.
I have to say that a certain guru which some people keep quoting is what I feel to be a very unreliable source. I will give him credit for bringing DNP to the forefront, but I will bet you a million bucks that he has never done it or mixed it. Here is a quote that bears this out; 'I don't see what the worry is about everything turning yellow? I have no problems, I just dry it out and cut it with a credit card and cap it.'
That is total BULL****!. Anyone who has used or mixed DNP powder knows that it will get on EVERYTHING and turn it yellow. It goes through plastic bags. Just today I was sending someone3g for research and I put it into a ziploc and 2 hours later I came back and the envelope under the bag was YELLOW! It goes through 1 laver of rubber gloves. It turns white HDPE bottles yellow. It floats everywhere. I had to putmy stuff in a hood because it got on everything I had sitting out and I had to wash all my glassware and scales before I could use them again. DNP floats by sublimation which would be known just be reading the safety sheet or the MerckIndex.. On the basis of that statement alone I have some real problems believing anything he says on the subject, but another famous quote is, 'DNP will raise your body temp high enough to kill you!' This also proves that he has never done it because as you will find, your body temp only goes up about one degree. Ok, enough about the fake guru.
Someone just asked me if the **** I sent them was real. Well, if you want a test then rub it on your hands and throw some on your carpet. When your carpet has to be replaced because NOTHING can remove the yellow and you look like a total ass because your hands are bright yellow, then you can ask me if it is real!
Mostly people are taking DNP for 1 week at a time because it exhausts you and you sweat a lot, usually that is what I do, but due to my 'work' with DNP I got a dose while on an ECA week and that combination of DNP-ECA was like methamphetamine. In fact it was better because it had less side affects. I would venture that DNP-PPACA would also have the same methamphetamine effects. At this time I do not know, however, whether PPA works on the same receptor so I would not do them back to back in cycles. ECAY where Y is yohimbine is also a combination that has meth type benefits. Clen-DNP did not exert any magical meth benefits that I noticed.
Have not taken PPACA or PPACA-DNP or PPACAY.
Tyramine and yohimbine are awesome and someone that I hold using it was getting goosebumps and asked a pharmacologis what the goosebumps were about. Thepharmacologist told him that it meant he was burning a lot of calories. I love this combination and it is just like meth due to large releases of NA although it only lasts 4 hours or so.
DNP also 'upgrades' the effects of clen. If you have used clen before and it had/has stopped working, then DNP will bring back it's glory.
I like to keep the clen and DNP a week apart due to the affects they have on T3 although they work on different mechanism it is just a precaution to keep from shutting down the T3. You could add Y to it for an added benefit which will not cause downgrade of anything. Reports on DNP-Y indicate a higher rise in body temperature on this combination.
Due to the systemic affects of DNP, it affects EVERY cell in the body that has mitochondria, including smooth(digestive) and muscle and fat as well, you will not see a significant rise inbody temp like you see with clen or ECA. Clen and ECA work primarily on muscle cells and that causes a rise inbody temp just as if you were working out. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for some to understand, but I was sweating like hell recently, and I took my temp and it was 95.8. ON DNP!
The basics first. DNP is a classified as a chemical poison. It's mode of action is to disrupt the ETC (electron transport chain) and cause uninhibited exchange of protons. This exchange of protons is what is responsible for making ADP into ATP. NOTHING can stop the disruption of this process once it starts. DNP works no matter what! High or low T3 has nothing to do with whether or not DNP affects the mitochondria and burns off extra energy. DNP gets into the cell and into the mitochondria and causes proton release. No other hormones are needed or noted.
Even so, it works in much the same way as clen or ECA or PPACA or thyroid. They ALL cause the metabolism to speed up. These all work via the mitochondria as well, although the non-DNP diet drugs work on the receptors first and DNP goes directly to the mitochondria the results are the same which is speeding up the metabolism to burn fat.
Some other important facts you should know are how ephedrine and beta-3 activation drugs work.
These both cause uncoupling of the ETC chain just like DNP! Ephedrin works part of its magic via beta-3's and much research has been done looking for a magic beta-3 drug. Why, we have it and it is called DNP! If you are sitting around and something is making you hotter, you are most likely experiencing an uncoupling of the ETC chain. No big deal, but DNP just causes a greater effect.
I knew there was a reason that you CANNOT die from DNP usage, at least the doses many are doing. I talked to a couple people about this but just couldn't find the info to prove it. Ok, so what does DNP do? It uncouples the ETC or oxidative phosphorylation as was elaborate upon above, allowing electron flow to go unchecked at maximal rate and resulting in heat production and ATP depletion.
ATP depletion is the key. What condition exists when you have totally exhausted all ATP and no more is being created? A very good instance we all know about is when you are dead and it is called 'rigor mortis'. Rigor mortis results because no more ATP is binding to the myosin head of the sarcomere in the muscle fibers.
So what does this have to do with us? No one has ever had rigor mortis on DNP or even severe cramping that has ever been documented. Furthermore, and to be more specific as to the uncoupler DNP, the electron gradient is collapsed and it runs unchecked at maximal as I have explained above, but as the gradient continues to increase electron transport becomes more difficult and the process SLOWS! Additionally, under very large artificially created electrochemical proton gradients, normal electron flow stops and may even result in
REVERSE electron transport flow!
All that was complicated and here is what it means. The respiration chain has a safety mechanism which allows for feedback controls to keep you from killing yourself. This is also another reason you will not want to do DNP for long periods. If you have taken enough as to create a large gradient the flow of electrons your burning of calories might even STOP! This will happen if you don't eat enough calories and appears to be more detrimental on a high fat type diet because as you will see below, glucose can ameliorate charge differentials in the mitochondria and at the cell surface while on DNP.
DNP works NO MATTER WHAT! It uncouples the electron transport train (ETC) and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Some have said it doesn't work after a small dose or only after taking DNP for 2 days or so. I think they are the same kind of person who would take a drink of beer and say, 'Oh, I'm not drunk so alcohol doesn't work'! Alcohol still affects your brain cells and hormone levels and slows down the metabolism. Just because you didn't drink enough to be drunk doesn't mean nothing happens!
DNP is anti-proteolytic. This means DNP does not break down protein via the mechanism through which DNP works. DNP is actually better for you than cardio because exercise is PROTEOLYTIC which in itself is another reason to not be doing a high fat diet. High fat diets and exercise both lower insulin and raise glucagon levels which cause breakdown of protein. It is a proven fact that 10-20% of energy from exercise comes from AA breakdown as well as release of glutamine from the cells. DNP burns calories and does not affect hormone levels. Someone said something about it causing ketosis which is likely if you don't eat any carbs but DNP is not, by itself going toaffect insulin levels like glucose disposal agents metformin or phenformin.
DNP is not going to be advantageous to muscle building. THIS DOES NOT DISAGREE WITH WHAT I WROTE ABOVE! It is anti-proteolytic via its mode of action, BUT if there is not enough energy in the cells to build muscle it ain't gonna happen. Again, diet is key.
DNP is one of the SAFEST drugs you can take!!!!! Why? Am I nuts?! I am basing this on DNP's mode of action. DNP has one purpose and mechanism and affects nothing else, but the mitochondria. DNP does not affect hormone levels as do clen, ECA, T3, etc. It has no side affects that you don't expect such as shakes or cramping. Compare DNP to some of the Drugs the FDA has approved and look at their side effects and then tell me what is safer!
After you read this study you need to ask yourself, need I say more? In the earlier paragraph on the mechanisms of DNP on the mitochondria I explained the safety mechanism which could keep DNP from being totally depleted of ATP. Some were saying ATP depletion would result in cell death. The study below illustrates another mechanism which I didn't know about. The crux of it can be summarized by this sentence: 'The failure to find a reduction in ATP concentration in either fibre type during prolonged exercise in the face of a progressive increase in the number of fibers showing little or no glycogen concentration suggests that protective mechanisms exist that prevent an energy crisis. The nature of these protective mechanisms remains to be elucidated. ' In other words,
When glycogen is gone there is a mechanism which keeps ATP from being depleted which is unknown at present!
06-29-2004, 02:18 AM
Good post, thank you.
-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
06-29-2004, 02:41 AM
thats an awesome read.
I was not planning on using any anabolics while on DNP. I know with t3 its a must, i am assuming its the same with DNP.
Its just that I got a 14 weeker and i need my body to bounce back.
Can i use DNP after PCT + some more time off, say about 6-8 weeks?
Am i wrong to think you prolly have to use some anabolic to prevent muscle wasting?
06-29-2004, 03:49 AM
What I got out of the read is that you will not build any muscle while on DNP, but if your diet is kept right with normal carbs and high protien ingestion, you can maintain muscle with minimal wasting without the use of anabolics. Although the 4AD he used probably inhanced that effect and as stated assisted with the lethargy felt from the DNP. Feedback anyone???
06-29-2004, 03:51 AM
By the way that was a great read! Me being the resident fat-ass I would be proud to subject my animal to a test run with full feedback!!! Anyone needing a guinea pig?? HEE HEE
06-29-2004, 11:12 AM
You don't need to run DNP while on cycle. DNP I must say is a great compound. Of course it has it's many downsides which include cooking yourself like a turkey and constent sweating, but for the most part if you can be responsible with it and not go nutz it's fairly safe. So far this summer I'm ran two 7 day cycles within 40 days and lost about 4-5%bf within that time frame. And these were low dose cycles as well compared to some others I know Before diving into this world read up and make sure you have everything in order. Later j
06-29-2004, 11:00 PM
JM, what is your body weight and what was your dose?Originally Posted by jminis
All I can say about DNP, you are gonna feel like **** period, you will probably need an appatite suppressant cause your hunger stays high, and don't get sick (if you do, stop immediately and start immune boosting, anadrol w/ a 5ad stack works fast)
06-30-2004, 01:00 AM
My body weight right now is about 210lbs at about 8% and my dose was at 400mg with only going up to 600mg for two days in the middle of the cycles. 600mg was not pleasant
06-30-2004, 01:14 AM
I only got to 400, it was in the winter and my bf was probably closer to 15'ish at about 215lb. I really think I'd rather keto diet than do it again. The "feel like crap-o-meter" reads about the same for both
06-30-2004, 11:55 AM
People have to realize that their is powder, and crystal DNP each with their own dosing. At around 190 lbs, 400-600mg was a decent dose for me, although 600 is a pretty new standard.
A few things about that post:
A. ALA is actually NOT a good supp when using DNP. I believe it was on Avant that a discuss was had with ala and uncouplers and the consensus was it limited fatloss. However, it is a great anti-ox and if you want to be safe, Id use it.
B. Glycerol and pyruvate are great supplements to use during DNP cycles. Pyruvate helps the uncoupling process, and will alleviate a few of the ****ty feelings. Glycerol (glycerine) helps keep the muscle hydrated, and the liver full helping with workouts and especially with dehydration of the muscles.
C. Expect to have your lifts be ****.
D. DO NOT do DNP during PCT or even right after. WHile your hormones are normalizing, playing with your t3 levels (which dnp messes with due to complete glycogen depletion) is not a good thing.
06-30-2004, 11:57 AM
The only real side I had from the DNP was increase in sweating (and I mean increase) and just being hot constantly. Other then waking up with wet sheets 3 times a night it wasn't all that bad LOL. I just made sure I took in plenty of carbs and water.
06-30-2004, 12:40 PM
06-30-2004, 11:15 PM
What, you thought it ended w/ Hitler? BTW A13, what is that molecule in your avatar?Originally Posted by Andy13
07-01-2004, 03:29 AM
Any guess? Take a shotOriginally Posted by DR.D
I definetly did not pick this structure at random.. There is real emotion involved
07-01-2004, 03:49 AM
I cant figure out what it is, its definitely not a testosterone derivative and its not DNP. What is it?Originally Posted by Andy13
07-01-2004, 10:51 PM
God bless you, my friend. I didn't get it at first, but now I see why your focused on DNP related topics. Please feel free to PM me if you are motivated to share your experience. Pharmacology is one of my first loves, and I respect real survivers. A lot of people think that they can fight, but the real warriors know who they are. They never quit.Originally Posted by Andy13
07-02-2004, 09:05 PM
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