Stacking question - very simple
06-27-2004 05:48 PM
Stacking question - very simple
I have a simple question about stacking. Generally speaking, are the effects of stacking two compounds going to be better (more effective) than alternating the two, using either at higher doses than when stacked. So for the sake of argument let's say someone was going to use M4OHN and Mdien. If it was a 50 day cycle, would it be better to run say 15mg M4OHN + 10mg Mdien for 50 days, or say 30mg of M4OHN for 25 days then 20mg of Mdien for 25 days. The same amount of each substance would be taken over that period of time. Hepatotoxicity aside (for the moment), which method would be better? -- and why? It seems to me that it would be better to alternate at higher doses because I don't think we can assume the effects of any two substances would be nearly as cumulative - maybe I am wrong though, and certain combinations are highly synergistic.
**Please at least give some reasoning. Speculation based on reason is fine, but try to hold off on the brotelligence, i.e. don't assert that hepatotoxicity would be multiplied by stacking methyls, that would be a bunch of crap, otherwise taking 2mg each of Mdien, M4OHN, M4OHT, M14ADD, M5AA, M4AD, and M1T would instantly turn you into a Simpsons character with a liver pulsing like it had been transplanted to you from Bluebeard the pirate, and you would have to be hauled to the ER post-haste, pissing blood all the while.**
06-27-2004 07:12 PM
that is brillant. Although bb.com if the true source of most brotelligence. I am interested in this as well.
06-27-2004 08:34 PM
One reason to stack compounds of course is to counteract side effects (4AD with 1-Test, or M1,4ADD with M1T). There was also talk about classifying steroids as Class I or Class II, classified by the way in which they bind to receptors, so in theory you could stack one class with the other without interference at the receptor.
I'm not convinced "synergy" actually occurs, but stacking would give you maximum benefit while letting you take proper PCT breaks.
06-28-2004 12:37 AM
Good responses so far. Now if two chemicals are both the same class of androgen, are they still worth stacking?
And is there no threshold before which the positive effects are minimal? Because if there is such a threshold dosage, then is it overcome by stacking, or do you still end up with less efficacy than by running higher doses one after the other?
Last edited by Strateg0s; 09-23-2004 at 02:50 PM.
06-28-2004 01:11 PM
What do you mean by same class of androgen? If they use the same enzyme to convert into their respective parent hormones then stacking would be a bad idea. Also do they compete for the same receptor site? Stacking compounds could cause competition between the two thus reducing any benefit. It really just depends on the compounds you plan on stacking/running.
Originally Posted by Strateg0s
06-28-2004 08:01 PM
So it would seem that unless you are stacking two very different sorts of androgens* it makes sense to run one after the other at the higher dose, rather than hoping that their effects would be cumulative if stacked. It seems very probable that hepatotoxicity would be cumulative regardless of whether the benefits were not.
Originally Posted by ersatz
Also, for what it is worth, I found the following, which would indicate that M4OHT should be dosed relatively high, 40mg or more I would suppose, given that "therapeutic dosages" are doctor recommendations for the average patient, not for purposes of performance enhancement.
* "Class I androgens being characterized as those that bind tightly and long to the androgen receptor. Class II androgens being those that donâ€™t have significant affinity for the androgen receptor. Class I androgens tend to increase protein synthesis with minimal body weight gain. Examples of class I androgens might include oxandrolone (Oxandrin), stanozolol (Winstrol), or even methenolone (Primo). Class II androgens tend to give rapid increases in body weight which is largely attributable to water retention. Although there are dramatic increases in bodyweight with class II androgens, the weight and size is dependant on the constant intake of the class II steroid. Examples of Class II androgens would include methandrostenolone (Dianabol) and oxymetholone (Anadrol)." Bryan Haycock
Last edited by Strateg0s; 07-01-2004 at 04:36 AM.
06-29-2004 01:00 PM
06-29-2004 01:06 PM
What's your answer?
Originally Posted by Jergo
11-04-2004 03:55 PM
Any chance you came to a conclusion about this question? Thanks
11-06-2004 05:40 AM
I think it would be better to stack.
it woukld obviously take time for the effects of each androgen to kick in. MOHN, about 3 weeks for example. if you stopped it after 4 weeks you would not reap a lot of benefits. It would be better to run both of them and reap the benefits of both for the cycle, as opposed to running 1, letting it kick in then stopping, then starting another, waiting for it to kick in and then getting the results from that.
That isn't very clear, but do you see what I mean?
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