So my girlfriend tells me we gotta have a serious talk..

[ephedroman]

Apparently she doesn't like me doing pro-hormones (which I know) and putting chemicals in my body because of the fact that it will eventually make our children to be in some way, shape or fashion deformed. Her mom just put fuel into the fire when they were talking about it and I myself know the safety of the majority of things I put into my body as she thinks it will stop sperm production indefinably and Ive seen countless studies that you can restart everything that an oral steroid shuts down.

But does anyone have any pub med articles or anything sitting around that shows SERMs are safe and effective at what we are trying to do? Ive been look but its a bunch of trials with different Serms.

..Either I keep taking them and lose my girlfriend or I show her some information that stops all this idiotic thinking and continue this relationship.

(BTW I didn't know where to put this since it involved anabolics and Serms)

 

[RJW719]

I dont know of any medical articles, but there are plenty of guys on AM who have done numerous cycles and have had children after them.

sorry, i know thats not the kind of proof you can show the ladies but its something.

 

[ephedroman]

Thats what Im saying! Take my brother for an example, he had just come off a cycle and went through his pct and within a month they were expecting. She just turned one and as far as we know shes fine.

Its just like I cant convince her, she needs proof that this stuff will not harm our future kids. No matter how much reading I do myself she still thinks I dont know anything. I just dont know what to do really.

 

[B5150]

Apparently she doesn't like me doing pro-hormones (which I know) and putting chemicals in my body because of the fact that it will eventually make our children to be in some way, shape or fashion deformed. Her mom just put fuel into the fire when they were talking about it and I myself know the safety of the majority of things I put into my body as she thinks it will stop sperm production indefinably and Ive seen countless studies that you can restart everything that an oral steroid shuts down.

But does anyone have any pub med articles or anything sitting around that shows SERMs are safe and effective at what we are trying to do? Ive been look but its a bunch of trials with different Serms.

..Either I keep taking them and lose my girlfriend or I show her some information that stops all this idiotic thinking and continue this relationship.

(BTW I didn't know where to put this since it involved anabolics and Serms)

Just being a devil's advocate here:

I would ask you why you don't know for yourself any of this information before hand.

There is no guarantee you will NOT have sperm issues simply because there are studies that support in positively.

SERMS have an inherent toxicity issue as well as the solvent that they are usually suspended in when you order them from research companies.

Just because everyone here or anywhere else is doing it does not mean it is safe and without risk of health effects.

Good luck with your research!

 

[kkcinc]

My wife is pregnant right now and we conceived on a Superdrol/Epistane bridge. I am almost 40 and have done many cycles. According to the doctor, the ultrasounds, and all the other tests, everything is fine. It's a baby boy due in March. Unfortunately this won't help you with your girlfriend because of all the bad PR about performance drugs. Also the government has demonized it. You could ditch her if it is not serious, or make a love sacrifice and go all natural. Worst thing you can do is try to change her.

 

[ephedroman]

Just being a devil's advocate here:

I would ask you why you don't know for yourself any of this information before hand.

There is no guarantee you will NOT have sperm issues simply because there are studies that support in positively.

SERMS have an inherent toxicity issue as well as the solvent that they are usually suspended in when you order them from research companies.

Just because everyone here or anywhere else is doing it does not mean it is safe and without risk of health effects.

Good luck with your research!

The information before hand part is what Ive told her, there are some risks to doing all this but the number one thing Ive reassured her of is im safe when doing so. Now when I say safe I mean don't dose like an idiot, I preload on supps the help out what the pro-hormone will bring down (BP, Joints etc), I always use a serm after every cycle and basically do everything like I should because im not trying to get ****ed up.

The sperm issue I even told her I would go get checked out before we even tried to have a child..She still freaked out.

Basically it comes down to I know the risks of all of this but its a persons own free will that in the end makes you responsible for anything that has happened because of it all. I read constantly about this stuff but I guess you can never read enough.

 

[ephedroman]

My wife is pregnant right now and we conceived on a Superdrol/Epistane bridge. I am almost 40 and have done many cycles. According to the doctor, the ultrasounds, and all the other tests, everything is fine. It's a baby boy due in March. Unfortunately this won't help you with your girlfriend because of all the bad PR about performance drugs. Also the government has demonized it. You could ditch her if it is not serious, or make a love sacrifice and go all natural. Worst thing you can do is try to change her.

Well she basically told me to tell her all the things I was taking so she could do the research which she quickly found out were just supplements (scivation xtend, daa, protein, taurine) until It came to the nolvadex and she found out it was a research chem that scared her even more.

I might can take the sacrifice but its a big decision to make if I can just show her some positive light at the end of the tunnel

 

[chocolatemilk]

Get a baseline sperm count done...

Run a cycle, PCT it up, get a sperm count done after and show her the results.

Problem solved.

 

[ephedroman]

^ that would be a good idea if I hadn't already come off cycle, im two weeks into pct.

 

[2k1s]

I wouldn't tell any one that I'm dating that I'm on anything harder than creatine. I used to crack jokes with a girl about how creatine was "roids". She ended up taking some creatine supplement and claimed she was roiding out too as a joke. I think she knew I was on more than just creatine but didn't want to know that I was.

Most people don't even have the basic grasp as to what steroids do. It also sounds like she is applying a general stereotype to all steroids. Iirc don't some injectables render you sterile while you're on them?

 

[boricuarage]

I will tell you right now, it doesn't matter how many articles you show her; it will not convince her, one because she is a woman, and 2 she cares about your health even if you take steroids safely. I have said this in numerous post and my wife is against it big time no matter how many times I show her a documentary or explain about trt..
it just doesn't convince her. she doesn't really kniw about prohormones so I guess I'm in the clear for right now. and I'm typing all this right next to her, but I'm on my iPhone.
good luck bro

 

[CrazyChemist]

OP - you need to tell your GF you need to have another serious talk. The demanding you tell her everything your on? Teaming up with mom? Girlfriend talking about your future kids? Are you engaged? This is too weird for me. How long you been dating? Do you live together? This kind of thing would make me need my space BIGTIME.

 

[CrazyChemist]

Get a baseline sperm count done...

Run a cycle, PCT it up, get a sperm count done after and show her the results.

Problem solved.

You need to spread some reputation around before giving it to chocolatemilk again.

 

[chocolatemilk]

You need to spread some reputation around before giving it to chocolatemilk again.

:1244:

 

[KBD]

Apparently she doesn't like me doing pro-hormones (which I know) and putting chemicals in my body because of the fact that it will eventually make our children to be in some way, shape or fashion deformed. Her mom just put fuel into the fire when they were talking about it and I myself know the safety of the majority of things I put into my body as she thinks it will stop sperm production indefinably and Ive seen countless studies that you can restart everything that an oral steroid shuts down.

But does anyone have any pub med articles or anything sitting around that shows SERMs are safe and effective at what we are trying to do? Ive been look but its a bunch of trials with different Serms.

..Either I keep taking them and lose my girlfriend or I show her some information that stops all this idiotic thinking and continue this relationship.

(BTW I didn't know where to put this since it involved anabolics and Serms)

Theyre just being women... They dont comprehend anything when it comes to the science of bodybuilding lol .

But seriously, i know alot of guys who conceived children on AAS/PHs but everyones diff.

 

[ephedroman]

OP - you need to tell your GF you need to have another serious talk. The demanding you tell her everything your on? Teaming up with mom? Girlfriend talking about your future kids? Are you engaged? This is too weird for me. How long you been dating? Do you live together? This kind of thing would make me need my space BIGTIME.

Well see its not that bad seeing as we've been in a relationship for the past 2 and a half years. We both want to get married but im just waiting for the right time to ask her and the whole kids thing..well shes 5 years older than me so I don't really look down on her for asking.

You ask alot of questions crazy chemist, alot of personal questions I might add haha

 

[CrazyChemist]

Well see its not that bad seeing as we've been in a relationship for the past 2 and a half years. We both want to get married but im just waiting for the right time to ask her and the whole kids thing..well shes 5 years older than me so I don't really look down on her for asking.

You ask alot of questions crazy chemist, alot of personal questions I might add haha

Didn't mean to offend but you posted a personal issue on the internet so I kind of figured you didn't mind. Besides they were rhetorical. Point is, I've been married almost 2 years and been with my wife for almost 7 total. We work as a team. I don't hide anything from her and I take her advice to heart but at the same time its ultimately my decision what i do with my body. Likewise for her. Your girl needs to trust your judgement IMO.

 

[hugeswole]

Hey man, I have the same proplem. I just don't tell my girl when I'm on cycle. It sucks but she can't accept it and I am not going to change any time soon. I would like to be honest with her about it and have tried in the past but hiding it is just easier. If she does notice anything I just say it is a new type of creatine. She may not believe it but I keeps her off my back.

 

[ephedroman]

Didn't mean to offend but you posted a personal issue on the internet so I kind of figured you didn't mind. Besides they were rhetorical. Point is, I've been married almost 2 years and been with my wife for almost 7 total. We work as a team. I don't hide anything from her and I take her advice to heart but at the same time its ultimately my decision what i do with my body. Likewise for her. Your girl needs to trust your judgement IMO.

Nah man I'm not offended at all more so just joking with you. Me and my girlfriend are the same way, we work as a team but I just wish she could see things sometimes more clearly instead of thinking the worst. I guess its just all the media sheding bad light on the subject that's got her worried.

 

[CrazyChemist]

Nah man I'm not offended at all more so just joking with you. Me and my girlfriend are the same way, we work as a team but I just wish she could see things sometimes more clearly instead of thinking the worst. I guess its just all the media sheding bad light on the subject that's got her worried.

I hear you.

I mean if it was me I'd ask her to keep it between you are her and not discuss it outside your relationship. I guess PHs, fine its legal, but if you ever venture over to the darker side you want to keep that as quiet as possible.

I talk to my wife about it and I say, "You're right, there is a risk, but I've assessed it and the benefits are work the risk." I also make a point to say that it shouldn't be discussed with ANYONE else.

You never know. Her mom could decide that its best for her daughter, and for you, if there was some sort of PH/AAS/Supplement intervention. Next thing you know you are in a room with your parents and friends explaining why you have so much creatine in your house. Sounds ridiculous but I bet its happened before.

 

[KBD]

Nah man I'm not offended at all more so just joking with you. Me and my girlfriend are the same way, we work as a team but I just wish she could see things sometimes more clearly instead of thinking the worst. I guess its just all the media sheding bad light on the subject that's got her worried.

That media gives a bad rep to everything that isnt really dangerous, yet they advertise to sell their alcohol which causes drunk drivers! But they dont care, they make $ off of alcohol.

 

[B5150]

Theyre just being women... They dont comprehend anything when it comes to the science of bodybuilding lol .

But seriously, i know alot of guys who conceived children on AAS/PHs but everyones diff.

The science of bodybuilding and the science of hormone manipulation are not mutually exclusive.

 

[boricuarage]

Didn't mean to offend but you posted a personal issue on the internet so I kind of figured you didn't mind. Besides they were rhetorical. Point is, I've been married almost 2 years and been with my wife for almost 7 total. We work as a team. I don't hide anything from her and I take her advice to heart but at the same time its ultimately my decision what i do with my body. Likewise for her. Your girl needs to trust your judgement IMO.

puuuhhh easy for you to say chemist... you let your wife poke you ;-) no homo...

 

[KBD]

The science of bodybuilding and the science of hormone manipulation are not mutually exclusive.

Of course not, i was just making a joke.

 

[gaijininjapan]

Arnold has kids... case closed.

 

[jlm25]

I've had the same discussion with my wife. It never ends well I tell my wife to do the research herself if she doesn't trust me. Usually that ends the discussion

 

[kingdong]

Why are prohormones so important that you would end this relationship? Who am I kidding? Ive damaged relationships for fitness too.

 

[kjkriston]

Thankfully the only thing my wife is against is me pinning. Sounds ridiculous...explained the health safety...doesnt care...I'll def. take what I can get though. Orals it is!

 

[KBD]

Why are prohormones so important that you would end this relationship? Who am I kidding? Ive damaged relationships for fitness too.

Lol yeah it makes u think, when ur wife/gf says "IM NOT STAYING WITH U IF U CONTINUE TO JUICE".

Bye b*tch.. LOL j/p

 

[omni]

You might as well quit going to the gym because, "it cuts into my time." Get a girl that supports you in your goals.

 

[imjuschillin]

Wow OP... That is tough.

I guess I may be in the minority here (at least of people actually makin posts.) My girl doesnt mind at all. I tell her what Im doing, my thoughts on it, all of it. Mind you I haven't pinned anything, yet at least. I asked her if she's really OK with it and she said "I see how much you research you do and go over multiple angles and all that, so I'm not too worried. There's a lot less responsible people out there doing way more risky things..."

I guess that may not help the OP much, but maybe a serious talk with her is needed. Who knows what the outcome might be. Would u tell your GF not to see her friends? Not to go drinkin and dancing in the weekend? Binging the mother into it too, seems like the issue has left the 'couple' dynamic and has become more of a campaign. it really is sad the view the general public and politicians have on PED overall. Really sad...

 

[KBD]

You might as well quit going to the gym because, "it cuts into my time." Get a girl that supports you in your goals.

Agreed

 

[jbryand101b]

Apparently she doesn't like me doing pro-hormones (which I know) and putting chemicals in my body because of the fact that it will eventually make our children to be in some way, shape or fashion deformed. Her mom just put fuel into the fire when they were talking about it and I myself know the safety of the majority of things I put into my body as she thinks it will stop sperm production indefinably and Ive seen countless studies that you can restart everything that an oral steroid shuts down.

But does anyone have any pub med articles or anything sitting around that shows SERMs are safe and effective at what we are trying to do? Ive been look but its a bunch of trials with different Serms.

..Either I keep taking them and lose my girlfriend or I show her some information that stops all this idiotic thinking and continue this relationship.

(BTW I didn't know where to put this since it involved anabolics and Serms)

if you love her, and plan on spending the rest of your life together, stop them duh. no brainer.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Just tell her the superdrol and tren tabs in the back of your freezer are vitamins. Or better yet, when you get your stuff in the mail, pull out that empty hydroxycut bottle you stashed for such an occassion and make the swap Tell her you're trying to make your abs show a little more lol.

My last cycle was Alpha one. I hid it from my girl which was kind of hard at times when she was pressuring me to drink and when I got mad at her for throwing a fit about my strict diet, etc. The only other thing I was worried about was libido, which didn't hit until PCT actually, and luckily then we were already fighting and I didn't want anything to do with her so there were only a couple instances where I couldn't "get it up" for her. She cried the second time after I told her it was cuz of stress and she said I was a liar and her body doesn't turn me on anymore, so it was actually a win/win. I got to achieve some of my goals and add some muscle, and she's actually using the gym membership I got her!

 

[boricuarage]

boladrol epistane dbol all in my kitchen next to the creatine, no xplode, and whey. "just another supp";-)

 

[ephedroman]

Thanks for all the posts guys. I spent new years eve with her last night and had alittle to much to drink so I forgot about my post haha.

I think when it comes down to it shes actually worried about it for our future which is being able to have healthy children which I cant blame her, I mean to some extent if she wasn't worried and didn't care about what I did at all then I might get alittle worried. We didn't really discuss it last night but I think im gonna sit her down and explain some things to her, tell her to do some research for herself about all the pros/cons of all this so she can see first hand on her own and if worse comes to worse ill just hide bottle after bottle of my "stash" ive got at the house.

Also I plan on telling her some things are just natural ingredients and designer creatines in pill form, obviously she's not stupid but I think it'll hold her off for a while until I do a few more cycles. I hate to lie to her but I already miss that "ON" feeling from when I did my last cycle...I dont care what anyone says, you cant replace that feeling of superior bad-a**ness haha.

 

[CrazyChemist]

You might as well quit going to the gym because, "it cuts into my time." Get a girl that supports you in your goals.

if you love her, and plan on spending the rest of your life together, stop them duh. no brainer.

worse comes to worse ill just hide bottle after bottle of my "stash" ive got at the house.

Also I plan on telling her some things are just natural ingredients and designer creatines in pill form, obviously she's not stupid but I think it'll hold her off for a while until I do a few more cycles. I hate to lie to her but I already miss that "ON" feeling from when I did my last cycle...I dont care what anyone says, you cant replace that feeling of superior bad-a**ness haha.

No judgement bro but id say either A) you love her, you want to have kids with her and you dont want to risk it so you stop, B) you love her, she doesn't understand the science and you tell her that you respect her opinion but she has to accept you for who you are and this is part of your lifestyle, C) you dont love her enough to be honest and open with her so you might as well break it off.

Thats my $0.02.

 

[B5150]

...or he could do the footwork to do the research to show that short term hormones use will have no long term effect on sperm count and motility.

If I were her I would not just take his word for it and he seems to be taking others' word for it.

Man up and do the homework :type:

 

[CrazyChemist]

...or he could do the footwork to do the research to show that short term hormones use will have no long term effect on sperm count and motility.

If I were her I would not just take his word for it and he seems to be taking others' word for it.

Man up and do the homework :type:

I agree that doing the homework on what you take is important. However, you probably won't be able to definitively prove that there is no long term effect on sperm count and motility.

Thats because, well, there is a good possibility that it does. I mean, if run safely there is a good chance that you'll make a full recovery but you are in fact taking the risk of shutting down ur natural hormone production and, as a result, rendering yourself sterile.

I posted on here awhile back that China was actually using low doses of testosterone as a form of birth control for men in a study exploring possible male birth control options. So hormones do shut down sperm production and one only hopes that production comes back after you stop taking said hormones.

 

[stxnas]

It's just me, but I wouldn't lie about anything...

 

[CrazyChemist]

It's just me, but I wouldn't lie about anything...

same here - if youre lying it means you think youre doing something you shouldnt or you are ashamed. Lying to your significant other is especially not a recommended move IMO. Lies beget lies.

 

[stxnas]

My wife says that I'm honest to a fault. I rebuke that there's no such thing.

Come clean. If she's that important to you, then find other types of supplements to aid in your goals.

 

[ephedroman]

Y'all are right, I shouldn't be lieing and this is the only thing that I feel like id have to.

Time to grow some balls and grow up. Thanks for all the advicer guys, ill keep you posted on what happens.

 

[B5150]

I agree that doing the homework on what you take is important. However, you probably won't be able to definitively prove that there is no long term effect on sperm count and motility.

Thats because, well, there is a good possibility that it does. I mean, if run safely there is a good chance that you'll make a full recovery but you are in fact taking the risk of shutting down ur natural hormone production and, as a result, rendering yourself sterile.

I posted on here awhile back that China was actually using low doses of testosterone as a form of birth control for men in a study exploring possible male birth control options. So hormones do shut down sperm production and one only hopes that production comes back after you stop taking said hormones.

Low Fertility Caused By Steroids: A Well-Known Risk

There are various negative and unpleasant effects of long-term use of corticosteroids, including thinning of the skin, weight gain, skin rashes, and mood change, to name but a few. Those who illegally abuse anabolic steroids face equally damaging side effects including acne, aggression, and many heart problems.

There is, however, a common effect following the use of both types of steroid involving fertility problems in both men and women, which can often be long lasting.
Male Problems

In the male, a common side effect of anabolic steroid use is impotence and erectile dysfunction. Sperm count is also significantly affected. Hormones critical to the process of sperm production are significantly affected by the use of anabolic steroids and, the greater the amount of steroids taken, the greater the impact on the hormone pattern. Reduced fertility caused by steroids is something that very few men appreciate. The need to look good or perform well in the athletic arena often clouds judgment. It is not until they choose to begin a family that their habit begins to haunt them. Fortunately, the male fertility effects caused by the use of anabolic steroids are reversed once the drug is no longer taken. The effects, however, can reduce sperm count and function for over twelve months. Low fertility caused by steroids in this case is entirely avoidable and should be a primary consideration for those who use them for recreational purposes.

 

[RAHHH]

tell her to get some medical proof first , she will then see there are non and not even eny for deaths (thow im sure some absesses and stupidity have happened somthere but not likly to find any info since its almost non existant)

 

[soontobbeast]

same here - if youre lying it means you think youre doing something you shouldnt or you are ashamed. Lying to your significant other is especially not a recommended move IMO. Lies beget lies.

i don't agree.

sometimes its easier/preferred to lie if you KNOW they won't understand.

like when you go to hit the B and your 10 year old nephew asks you what you're doing.

or a blind person asking you what color the food they are eating is

you could explain it but they wouldnt understand it anyway. its just easier to make up something. you aren't ashamed, its just not worth it to explain.

same thing with someone who doesnt know anything about a particular subject.

imagine trying to explain to your 60 something year old parents that marijuana really isnt that nuts.

its the same thing as explaining damage and safety of steroids to women/most people.

 

[CrazyChemist]

i don't agree.

sometimes its easier/preferred to lie if you KNOW they won't understand.

like when you go to hit the B and your 10 year old nephew asks you what you're doing.

or a blind person asking you what color the food they are eating is

you could explain it but they wouldnt understand it anyway. its just easier to make up something. you aren't ashamed, its just not worth it to explain.

same thing with someone who doesnt know anything about a particular subject.

imagine trying to explain to your 60 something year old parents that marijuana really isnt that nuts.

its the same thing as explaining damage and safety of steroids to women/most people.

lol on the examples. Kind of funny and I hope you are joking a little bit. I get what you are saying but realize the examples you just gave, a child, a blind man, 60 something year old parents. These are all people that you have some detachment from, who are incapable of understanding you. Your wife/girlfriend should be someone you are on the same level and share things with and can understand you.

On a side note, I would have no problem telling my parents I occasionally smoke marijuana because I think its a fine thing to do, I'm not ashamed of it.

 

[soontobbeast]

lol on the examples. Kind of funny and I hope you are joking a little bit. I get what you are saying but realize the examples you just gave, a child, a blind man, 60 something year old parents. These are all people that you have some detachment from, who are incapable of understanding you. Your wife/girlfriend should be someone you are on the same level and share things with and can understand you.

On a side note, I would have no problem telling my parents I occasionally smoke marijuana because I think its a fine thing to do, I'm not ashamed of it.

the blind man and the 10 year were exaggerations of course but.. i'm serious about the concept.

drugs ( anabolic or intoxicating ones) have been exaggerated in all directions by all different venues, for decades. everyone that has not empirically experienced them think they are crazy.

try to imagine what you thought about steroids before you knew anything about them or experienced anything like them. you thought of these huge guys with veins popping out of them that looked nuts.

how about marijuana? after you smoke you realize its not anything near the craziness the movies and teachers told you it was.

im just sayin ......you're not really ashamed just because you don't want people to know.....or you dont want to explain. YOU know it isn't crazy. but you know they will think it's crazy.

 

[SouthernCharm]

First of all.... These types of threads come about every couple of months. **** likes to cycle, Jane puts her foot down. What is **** to do?

This is always a tricky situation but you have to look at it from every angle. This is your body and your decision. She is also a big part of your life and changes that can affect your health and your mood, your sex life, etc should all be discussed. Equally, if she cares about you and doesn't think you're a sheep (just a follower) then she should take the time to sit down and listen to what you have to say. But you have to do the research as Heat Miser said. You can't get everything off of AM, including relationship advice because that's just like the misc section of BB.com.

First of all, lying is stupid if you care about your significant other. If you value the relationship and honestly love her, lying is the last thing you would be doing. If you can be deceptive, then think about it, in turn so could she.

Second. I agree with Heat Miser..again.... SERMS are slightly toxic, and they may even raise your estrogen, which is why AIs are often used in PCT after a cycle.

And if you have to ask us for a Pub Med article, you are not looking hard enough. Research more, invest in blood work, and evaluate the situation again.

 

[SouthernCharm]

I just realized you cant type D I C K on this forum lol... D I C K and Jane.. lol