Havoc cycle help

[pocho]

Well, I originally had a fairly long message in this box but decided to opt for a different type of question, a more direct approach if you will. Now, I understand that Havoc isn't the harshest PH out there; that's the reason why I'm going with it. I understand that it often times doesn't require a serm as well (another reason I'm going with it).

What I'd like to know is what I should purchase with Havoc. My cycle is going to be 4 or 5 weeks. I'm not sure which one just yet. If I opt for the 4 week, it'd go as follows: 20/30/40/40. For the 5 week: 20/30/30/40/40. Which one would be more ideal for growth? Or would different amounts per week be better?

One question I have, in regards to support supps, is when I should take them. Should I throw in a loading phase, take supps while on, and then PCT? I'm a little confused on PCT. I guess I should just ask "How, what, and when do I work my PCT in?

Alrighty, recap: What should I buy?

Thanks yall

 

[CrazyChemist]

AIs cycle support, available from NP, is sufficient for support supps. I recommend a SERM as pct for any cycle because they are cheap, easy to obtain, and most effective. Continue the Cycle support thru pct and thro in post cycle support with pct as well. I like sustain alpha as a natural test booster and lean xtreme for cortisol control. I like creatine and a preworkout supp as well during pct only. You should start at 20mg and if the sides are tolerable up it to 30. If 30 is tolerable up it to 40. I don't recommend going above that. You can run 5 weeks if the sides arent bad and u have a decent pct.

 

[BarbellBeast]

For a 1st cycle, keep it at 4 weeks.

You can preload your supports if you'd like, doesn't matter when you take them. I usually take them first thing in the morning. I like to run some supports through PCT as well.

It seems you got some more researching to do about PCT. It will start the day after your last oral dose. Typically ran for 4 weeks with a combination of a SERM + natty test boosters. Please do some more research if you still aren't familiar with PCT. If you still need some more help you can always PM, I'm here to help.

 

[gymrat827]

Don't run 20mg. It's not enough

 

[CrazyChemist]

Don't run 20mg. It's not enough

never actually run a havoc cycle but in general theres nothing wrong with starting with a lower dose to assess sides. What I do not understand is why people pyramid EVERY time they cycle. For example, if I run a cycle of - say - dbol and I cycle 20mg ED, 30mg, 40mg, 50mg, 60mg and I find 50mg is the sweet spot for me then the next time I cycle I'd just jump on 50mg and run that throughout. Just my opinion but once you know your sweet spot you can stick with it.

 

[RickRock13]

never actually run a havoc cycle but in general theres nothing wrong with starting with a lower dose to assess sides. What I do not understand is why people pyramid EVERY time they cycle. For example, if I run a cycle of - say - dbol and I cycle 20mg ED, 30mg, 40mg, 50mg, 60mg and I find 50mg is the sweet spot for me then the next time I cycle I'd just jump on 50mg and run that throughout. Just my opinion but once you know your sweet spot you can stick with it.

I agree with what you said here about finding your sweet spot, but 20mg is pretty weak, and most people wont even see much from 30mg. I would start with 30mg and asess from there..

 

[CrazyChemist]

I agree with what you said here about finding your sweet spot, but 20mg is pretty weak, and most people wont even see much from 30mg. I would start with 30mg and asess from there..

I 99% agree here.

I mean, if you cant handle the sides at 30mg you might as well stop the cycle and not run it, from what i hear. Like i said i never used havoc personally. I do know some guys who just can't handle certain supps, even at stupidly low doses they just cant run em. So it is possible that the OP will have problems at even 20mg but I do doubt it with a PH, like havoc. I think starting at 30mg is absolutely fine. That being said, remember rick the OP is 30 lbs lighter than you and the same height.

 

[RickRock13]

I 99% agree here.

I mean, if you cant handle the sides at 30mg you might as well stop the cycle and not run it, from what i hear. Like i said i never used havoc personally. I do know some guys who just can't handle certain supps, even at stupidly low doses they just cant run em. So it is possible that the OP will have problems at even 20mg but I do doubt it with a PH, like havoc. I think starting at 30mg is absolutely fine. That being said, remember rick the OP is 30 lbs lighter than you and the same height.

True. maybe start at 20mg and then after 2 or 3 days if no sides, go to 30mg? At your weight you may find that 30mg will give you great gains. Optimally you want to use the smallest, effective dose that you can. your sides will be less and your recovery will be easier, because you will be less shutdown.

As an example in my Epi cycle I ran it 30/45/45/60/60/60 and my greatest gains were achieved at 45mg. I didnt gain anything by bumping to 60 except more sides, so if you find 30 to be effective, stick there

 

[pocho]

OK, thanks guys for the input.

I've been doing a lot of research on support supps the past couple of days and have found a good deal of info.

This is my plan for the cycle. Correct anything that needs correcting.

For the week prior to starting the cycle, I've read that it's best to take milk thistle along with Cycle Support.
Havoc, I take it, should be taken for just 4 weeks; seeing as it's my first PH.
Figured since 40 is the sweet spot, I'd do 20 for the first 3 days to assess tolerance/sides and then up it to 30 for the rest of the week.

Week 1: 20/20/20/30/30/30/30
Week 2: 30
Week 3: 40
Week 4: 40

Then for PCT have a SERM on hand. I'm torn on which to take. I've read nolva and clomid both do good jobs. But, for Havoc, which would be best? Since Havoc is a milder PH, would starting off with 150 be to much? I've read of some doing 150/100/50/50 and others 100/100/50/50 (I can't remember which SERM was used). Which would be more beneficial?

Also, Cycle Support should be ran for the duration of the cycle, correct? Then once PCT starts, along with the SERM, start taking Post Cycle Support? I've read it's definitely a good idea to start taking an NO product, along with a natural test booster as well. Yea? Would it also be a good idea to taper of the amount of PC Support and Test Booster as PCT comes to an end?

Ok, recap:

Week 1: Milk Thistle and Cycle Support
---
Week 2: 20/20/20/30/30/30/30 (With Cycle Support)
Week 3: 30 (With Cycle Support)
Week 4: 40 (With Cycle Support)
Week 5: 40 (With Cycle Support)
---
Week 6: Nolva or Clomid at 150 (Post Cycle Support + Test Booster)
Week 7: Nolva or Clomid at 100 (Post Cycle Support + Test Booster)
Week 8: Nolva or Clomid at 50 (Post Cycle Support + Test Booster)
Week 9: Nolva or Clomid at 50 (Post Cycle Support + Test Booster)

Alright. Thanks again yall

 

[CrazyChemist]

pretty solid - note that you do not run nolva at the same dose you run clomid. I would run clomid at 200mg for 2 days and then 150 for 5 days (first week) then 100/50/25 for the remaining 3 weeks and thats a pretty damn good pct. For nolva run something like 40/20/20/10.

 

[catty66]

AI's Post Cycle Support is a test booster which is fine in pct. What CrazyChemist was trying to tell you is continue to run AI's Cycle Support thoughout you're cycle and you're pct. This will help to improve you're lipids and protect you're liver. Because serms can be liver toxic, also. Do not just have the serm on hand. Start taking it the day after you're last day of havoc. You will get alot of opinions, but I would take 20 mgs of nolva everyday for 4 weeks.

 

[pocho]

So, running Post Cycle Support as a test booster would be sufficient enough at raising natural test levels? And since the SERM is tough on the liver, it'd be best to continue taking Cycle Support? So... I'd take Cycle Support and Post Cycle Support?

Also, CrazyChemist/catty66, would Clomid be better to take with Havoc than Nolva?

 

[catty66]

Yes. Post Cycle Support, Cycle Support, and Nolva. This is simple. This should work. CrazyChemist dosing is fine. I run mine a tad lower but it's not that much of a difference.

 

[RickRock13]

So, running Post Cycle Support as a test booster would be sufficient enough at raising natural test levels? And since the SERM is tough on the liver, it'd be best to continue taking Cycle Support? So... I'd take Cycle Support and Post Cycle Support?

Also, CrazyChemist/catty66, would Clomid be better to take with Havoc than Nolva?

Either one is fine. However, Clomid is said to get test up quicker than Nolva, where Nolva has better protection against estrogen related sides like gyno. Either one will do the trick though for Epi I would go with the clomid.

 

[catty66]

I was trying to kept it real simple for him. It looked like he was getting confused. Now he probably is for sure.

 

[pocho]

haha.. I got it, not confused. So I'll just use those three, Post Cycle/Cycle Support alongside Clomid. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[pocho]

Well, I made a typo. When I was talking about Cycle Support, I was actually thinking of Cycle Assist. CA works in the same way as CS, right? To add to that, I was thinking of PCT Assist, not Post Cycle Support. I went looking around and the site that carries it is out of stock. Would it be alright to use Post Cycle Support as a substitution, alongside Cycle Assist?

Thanks yall

 

[gymrat827]

I didnt mean the 20mg thing like everyone took it.

Sh!t never goes that way tho

 

[W4114C3]

I have a quick question. Im about to start a havoc cycle I have everything I need to run the cycle plus a serm for pct. I currently take creatine, whey protein, and a NO. Should I continue to take these as normal during the havoc cycle or should I wait and start them back up with the pct?

 

[CrazyChemist]

I have a quick question. Im about to start a havoc cycle I have everything I need to run the cycle plus a serm for pct. I currently take creatine, whey protein, and a NO. Should I continue to take these as normal during the havoc cycle or should I wait and start them back up with the pct?

I personally drop the creatine during a cycle and pick it back up in pct but there is no hard and fast rule.

 

[catty66]

Yes

 

[gymrat827]

No creatine or NO products til pct. You won't need them

 

[catty66]

Sorry, my yes answer was to the op poncho's question. Not the hijaker.

 

[RickRock13]

Well, I made a typo. When I was talking about Cycle Support, I was actually thinking of Cycle Assist. CA works in the same way as CS, right? To add to that, I was thinking of PCT Assist, not Post Cycle Support. I went looking around and the site that carries it is out of stock. Would it be alright to use Post Cycle Support as a substitution, alongside Cycle Assist?

Thanks yall

Yep, same thing, different company

 

[W4114C3]

alright thanks for the input!!

 

[pocho]

Alright yall, thanks for the input/help for my cycle. Can't wait to get all my goods in. I definitely feel like I'm gonna make a log out of this one. Thanks again.

 

[xxxtroyxxx]

very corret