Is Dbol androgenic ?

[bogzanab]

Hey ppl

I would like your opinion regarding the androgenity of dbol .

Do you think it has androgenic activity ?

Thank you.

 

[ersatz]

Yes.

 

[zachmanman]

Yes.

 

[bogzanab]

How much ? I know it's been said many times that its actions are not AR mediated but through other mechanisms.

I found an interesting study which contradicts this . Take a look :

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 Apr;94(5):481-7. Epub 2005 Mar 17.

Anabolic-androgenic steroid interaction with rat androgen receptor in vivo and in vitro: a comparative study.
Feldkoren BI, Andersson S.

Department of Obstetrics-Gynecology and Biochemistry, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, 5323 Harry Hines Blvd., Dallas, TX 75390-9032, USA.

Abstract
Anabolic steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone and are characterized by their ability to cause nitrogen retention and positive protein metabolism, thereby leading to increased protein synthesis and muscle mass. There are disagreements in the literature in regards to the interaction of anabolic steroids with the androgen receptor (AR) as revealed by competitive ligand binding assays in vitro using cytosolic preparations from prostate and skeletal muscle. By use of tissue extracts, it has been shown that some anabolic steroids have binding affinities for the AR that are higher than that of the natural androgen testosterone, while others such as stanozolol and methanedienone have significantly lower affinities as compared with testosterone. In this study we show that stanozolol and methanedienone are low affinity ligands of the rat recombinant AR as revealed by a ligand binding assay in vitro, however, based on a cell-based AR-dependent transactivation assay, they are potent activators of the AR. We also show that a single injection of stanozolol and methanedienone causes a rapid cytosolic depletion of AR in rat skeletal muscle. Based on these results, we conclude that anabolic steroids with low affinity to AR in vitro, can in fact in vivo act on the AR to cause biological responses.

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Another one that completely contradicts the theory because when administered with an
androgen receptor antagonist, dianabol's anabolic activity was vastly
reduced :


springerlink.com/content/u636851135p55013

"...The results obtained upon joint administration of dianabol and the
antagonist were somewhat unexpected. The latter in doses of 2.5 and
7.5mg/rat/day caused a decrease in the response to dianabol only on the
part of the muscle and inhibited the stimulatory effect of dianabol on
the mass of the accessory (androgen sensitive) organs only in the
maximum dose...."

Can we put an end to dbol's debated on its androgenic activity ?

Please share your opinions.

 

[KBD]

Very

 

[Gator 87]

It is more anabolic and less androgenic than test, but it is still decently androgenic.

 

[jbryand101b]

it is a derivative of testosterone. it binds to the androgen receptor because it is an androgen. therefor, it can cause androgenic effects.

5 alpha reduced boldenone is 1-testosterone or, 1-dht,

5 alpha reduced methyl boldenone (dbol) is methyl-1-testosterone, or methyl 1-dht.

androgens have varying degree's of ar binding affinity d/t their structures & make up.

but, they all still bind to the ar to some degree, and are capable of causing androgenic effects. this will vary person to person.

there, end of discussion.

 

[thegodfather]

Very.

 

[bogzanab]

it is a derivative of testosterone. it binds to the androgen receptor because it is an androgen. therefor, it can cause androgenic effects.

5 alpha reduced boldenone is 1-testosterone or, 1-dht,

5 alpha reduced methyl boldenone (dbol) is methyl-1-testosterone, or methyl 1-dht.

androgens have varying degree's of ar binding affinity d/t their structures & make up.

but, they all still bind to the ar to some degree, and are capable of causing androgenic effects. this will vary person to person.

there, end of discussion.

The fact that it binds to the androgen receptor was very clear, but I've seen all over the internet people clasifying it as a Class 2 steroid,hence with low afinity to the androgen receptor but by reading the above studies I think it can be said that even if maybe it doesn't have the same afinity to AR as testosterone(maybe,because I didn't see any reference for comparing these 2) , it comes quite close. An example to make myself more clear: testosterone binds 100% and dianabol 70-80%. Do you agree ? Also mg per mg, dianabol is stronger than testosterone in it's effects so by this maybe again it comes more close.

 

[sethroberts]

The fact that it binds to the androgen receptor was very clear, but I've seen all over the internet people clasifying it as a Class 2 steroid,hence with low afinity to the androgen receptor but by reading the above studies I think it can be said that even if maybe it doesn't have the same afinity to AR as testosterone(maybe,because I didn't see any reference for comparing these 2) , it comes quite close. An example to make myself more clear: testosterone binds 100% and dianabol 70-80%. Do you agree ? Also mg per mg, dianabol is stronger than testosterone in it's effects so by this maybe again it comes more close.

That is because people are parrots who repeat unsubstantiated internet theories and nauseum in order to appear knowledgable. Dbol binds to the androgen receptor, dbol converts via 5-alpha reductase to androgenic metabolites.

 

[schwellington]

dbol is androgenic........wait wut?

 

[jbryand101b]

The fact that it binds to the androgen receptor was very clear, but I've seen all over the internet people clasifying it as a Class 2 steroid,hence with low afinity to the androgen receptor but by reading the above studies I think it can be said that even if maybe it doesn't have the same afinity to AR as testosterone(maybe,because I didn't see any reference for comparing these 2) , it comes quite close. An example to make myself more clear: testosterone binds 100% and dianabol 70-80%. Do you agree ? Also mg per mg, dianabol is stronger than testosterone in it's effects so by this maybe again it comes more close.

people who use the term "class 1" and "class 2" to descibe steroids are mis informed. there is no such thing. this is made up bro science.

again, any steroid (androgen) has the potential to cause androgenic side effects.

dbol is an androgen, and can cause androgenic sides. It can also be 5a reduced, just as test becomes dht, it will become m1t, a very powerful androgen.

either way, from turinabol, to methyl trenbolone, all androgenic steroids are androgenic.

im not sure what else you are asking. your question was is dbol androgenic, the answer is of course it is, it is an androgenic steroid.

the extent of it's androgenic effects will vary person to person, just like everything people take.

That is because people are parrots who repeat unsubstantiated internet theories and nauseum in order to appear knowledgable. Dbol binds to the androgen receptor, dbol converts via 5-alpha reductase to androgenic metabolites.

this is a lot simpler put than what I said. thats probably why you are able to write a book. lol.

 

[bogzanab]

im not sure what else you are asking. your question was is dbol androgenic, the answer is of course it is, it is an androgenic steroid.

the extent of it's androgenic effects will vary person to person, just like everything people take.

Yes, I put the question in a subjective manner, thinking if dbol can be classified in the close to "as androgenic as testosterone" substances. A better question would be how is the metabolism of dbol(in several words) and if it mediates its action(a large percent of it) through its androgenic profile.

The only reference for 5a reductase form of dianabol(m1t)

Steroids. 1977 Mar;29(3):331-48.

Relative importance of 5alpha reduction for the androgenic and LH-inhibiting activities of delta-4-3-ketosteroids.
Steele RE, Didato F, Steinetz BG.

Abstract
The significance of 5alpha reduction of c19, delta1,4-3-ketosteroids in regulating growth of the rat ventral prostate (VP) was examined. The androgenic and LH-inhibiting activities of a C19 delta1,4-3-detosteroid which does not undergo appreciable 5alpha reduction were compared with those of its 5alpha reduced analogue and those of testosterone (T). In intact rats M (17beta-hydroxy-17alpha-methyl-androsta-1:4-dien-3-one) caused a suppression of VP weights and plasma testosterone concentrations, and in castrated rats suppressed plasma LH concentrations. M was considerably less androgenic and moderately less potent as an inhibitor of LH secretion than either T or the 5alpha reduced analogue of M [17beta-hydroxy-17alpha-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-ene-3-one; (5alphaM)]. 5alphaM was found to be at least as androgenic and as active as an inhibitor of LH as T, suggesting that the weak activity of M may be attributable to a lack of reduction to 5alphaM. Following incubation of 3H-M with VP minces, over 96% of the radioactivity recovered corresponded with M by TLC. Under identical conditions 32-48% of the radioactivity recovered from incubations with 14C-T corresponded with 5alpha reduced metabolites of T. This study demonstrates the importance of 5alpha reduction for both the androgenic and LH-inhibiting activities of delta4-3-ketosteroids.

So, indeed the m1t is at least as potent as testosterone, just how study says but then it says that dianabol doesn't quite convert to m1t. If you interpret this study in a better way, feel free to express your thoughts.

 

[jbryand101b]

im not sure what class you are talking about. steroids aren't put into classes.

testosterone itself isn't very androgenic. it's aa ratio is 100/100.

dianabols is Androgenic 40-60/Anabolic 90-210.

taken from anabolics 09 on dbol's androgenic side effects.

Although classified as an anabolic steroid,androgenic side effects are still common with this substance. This may include bouts of oily skin, acne, and body/facial hair growth. Anabolic/androgenic steroids may also aggravate male pattern hair loss. Individuals sensitive to the androgenic effects of methandrostenolone may find a milder anabolic such as Deca-Durabolin® to be more comfortable. Women are additionally warned of the potential virilizing effects of anabolic/androgenic steroids. These may include a deepening of the voice, menstrual irregularities, changes in skin texture, facial hair growth, and clitoral enlargement.
While methandrostenolone does convert to a more potent steroid via interaction with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme (the same enzyme responsible for converting testosterone to dihydrotestosterone), it has an extremel: low affinity to do SO.470

The androgenic metabolite 5 alpha dihydromethandrostenolone is produced only h trace amounts, so the relative androgenicity of methandrostenolone is not significantly affected by finasteride or dutasteride.
-------------

and m1t is more androgenic than testosterone.

 

[bogzanab]

im not sure what class you are talking about. steroids aren't put into classes.

testosterone itself isn't very androgenic. it's aa ratio is 100/100.

I specified in the close "as androgenic as testosterone" substances.

dianabols is Androgenic 40-60/Anabolic 90-210.

taken from anabolics 09 on dbol's androgenic side effects.

Although classified as an anabolic steroid,androgenic side effects are still common with this substance. This may include bouts of oily skin, acne, and body/facial hair growth. Anabolic/androgenic steroids may also aggravate male pattern hair loss. Individuals sensitive to the androgenic effects of methandrostenolone may find a milder anabolic such as Deca-Durabolin® to be more comfortable. Women are additionally warned of the potential virilizing effects of anabolic/androgenic steroids. These may include a deepening of the voice, menstrual irregularities, changes in skin texture, facial hair growth, and clitoral enlargement.
While methandrostenolone does convert to a more potent steroid via interaction with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme (the same enzyme responsible for converting testosterone to dihydrotestosterone), it has an extremel: low affinity to do SO.470

The androgenic metabolite 5 alpha dihydromethandrostenolone is produced only h trace amounts, so the relative androgenicity of methandrostenolone is not significantly affected by finasteride or dutasteride.
-------------

and m1t is more androgenic than testosterone.

Could you copy here that "470" reference ?

Also , have you read the study I posted earlier ?

Even if it is produced in trace amounts(m1t from dbol), those "trace amounts" are sufficient enough to exert androgenic effects ?

 

[jbryand101b]

all steroids exert androgenic effects. the 470 reference, you'll have to get yourself a copy of anabolics 9th edition for that, im not going to look it up.

not yet, I have a bunch of full studies I have to read on other compounds like phera, epi, and 2-cyano phera, so dont have time for dbol.

but if you wonder if it can cause androgenic side effects like an enlarged prostate, then the answer is yes, but is it as androgenic as dht? no.

 

[bogzanab]

not yet, I have a bunch of full studies I have to read on other compounds like phera, epi, and 2-cyano phera, so dont have time for dbol.

just a q: how come you can answer dbol questions and be sure of what you say if you don't actually read scientific reference on what the subject is about ?

 

[henryv]

Could you copy here that "470" reference ?

Also , have you read the study I posted earlier ?

They're both the same paper. 470 is the study you posted earlier.

Some human excretion studies have shown no 5a-reduced metabolites of d-bol, only 5b-reduced ones [1]. 1,4-dienes don't tend to undergo 5a-reduction to any appreciable extent. 1-androstenedione is the only 5a-reduced metabolite of boldenone detected in humans AFAIK, and then only in very small amounts [2].

[1] The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Volume 38, Issue 4, April 1991, Pages 441-464
[2] Biol Mass Spectrom. 1992 Jan;21(1):3-16.

 

[jbryand101b]

just a q: how come you can answer dbol questions and be sure of what you say if you don't actually read scientific reference on what the subject is about ?

because Im just that awsome. :bling:

 

[MikeGfilms]

because Im just that awsome. :bling:

^^This.


haha my answer to everything.

 

[schwellington]

because Im just that awsome. :bling:

heh x 2