Advice on SD/Epi Stack!! 6 week cycle..

[TAPShr3d]

Hey what's up guys. I've been reading and researching on here daily for about 15+ days absorbing info like a sponge!!

About me..I'm 24, 5'10, 180lbs, about 15-18% bf, been training for 4 1/2 years. When i started training I weighed 15lbs less in the low 20's bf. I consider myself a mesomorph and a mix of one of the others cuz if I maintain a slightly high carb diet I think I put on weight easily..not muscle lol.

I decided to get my feet wet with prohormones/steroids to give me a little boost past a plateau I think I've hit.

This would be my first cycle ever. I took 6-oxo about 2 years ago but don't think it was a prohormone. The supp dude said it was a test booster. I didnt bother researching it either. Also animal m-stack if that has anything active in it.

So after much reading I want to try something that's "dry" and promotes a lean look. I've decided to either take superdrol, epistane or both..

Now before the flaming I've already read it's not suggested to take 2 17a methyls together in a bridge for anyone new to this kind of stuff. I figured if I run something like:

Superdrol: 10/20/20
Epistane: 0 /0 /20/20/30/30 or 40.

I figured since the Epi is somewhat weaker then a lot of other orals I'd be safe. I would PCT with Clomid, Nolvadex, and a test booster like sustain alpha (also good for cortisol control).

On cycle supps would be:
Jacked
Hawthorne berry
Red yeast rice or whatever for bp
Liv armor or some type of liver support
Opti-men vitamin
Omega 3-6-9's.
Flax seed oil
And maybe some others.

I chose these two compounds cuz neither of the aromatize so I won't has to really worry about estrogen related sides but I'm open for advice.

I was super FAT as a kid and I think I may have a slight case of pubescent gyno which I f*cling hate. So I want something that's lean and not to prone to watery bulk.

Basically a recomp type cycle.

Sorry for the long post...Lastly, I've read unrealz SD guide and the Epi guide floating around.

Help a brother out!

P.s. Anabolic Minds is the shiit

 

[TAPShr3d]

Oh forgot to mention what my goal is. I'd like to put on 10-15 lean lbs while staying or lowering my current bf. Also would like to know about personal experience of those who've done a clen/t3 cycle for cutting.

Thanks.

 

[2die4]

Well imo and 99% percent of the members here on AM they will tell you SD should not be your first cycle.Try Epi or halodrol they should be good for your first cycle.

 

[colindep]

Well imo and 99% percent of the members here on AM they will tell you SD should not be your first cycle.Try Epi or halodrol they should be good for your first cycle.

People will say that however I've never quite understood that logic. Why not try SD at a low dose for a first cycle? If you don't have a problem with the sides than you're guaranteed to get good results (pending diet, workouts and PCT are in order).

I ran SD for my first cycle. 3 weeks at 10/20/20, gained about 18lbs and kept 15-16 of that. I would say just try running the SD, maybe 4 weeks. I've been considering the SD/Epi bridge as well but I'm not sure the results will outweigh the risk and sides of running 6 weeks on methyls.

 

[TAPShr3d]

Thanks fellas..

Ya I also read that SD wasn't "recommended" for a first cycle but I also saw many logs on this site and others of people having good results as their first cycle.

I figured if I did the sd/Epi bridge I would just keep an eye out for my liver values and go from there. Who knows my liver may be up to the 6 weeker (is that a word)

Lastly, I've read superdrol is kind of wet..but mostly everywhere I've read it's considered a dry substance. I do know that Epi is dryer though.

So the general consensus is to run one or the other huh.?

I just want to lean and harden up my physique with a some extra mass and a drop in bf.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Personally I think a first timer is better off with something more simple than the SD->Epi bridge. 5-6 weeks of halodrol or epi imo.

That said I think your cycle outline looks fine as you are being nice and conservative on the doses. Except I would raise the Epi to 30-40mg because 20 is too low for most people.

The main problem I have with your cycle is that you're trying to recomp on it. Don't. If you want to run the SD/Epi bridge, just try to gain as much muscle as you can. Most people that try to recomp don't know what a recomp is. Are you ready to do cardio everyday and cut carbs out of your diet after 3pm? That's a good recomp. Too many people think that they can achieve a recomp by just cutting out some calories and letting the steroids do the work for them.

Really at your stats, you would do well to train naturally a big longer, work on a lil more LBM and drop some bodyfat. If you're 15% that's not so bad but 18% at 180 pounds is no point to be cycling from.

 

[TAPShr3d]

Hey thanks for the advice unreal. I'll take some pics and try to post them. I don't think I'm at 18% but I'm not sure as I haven't check m bf in awhile.

Quick question... I heard running Epi longer than 5 weeks is pointless as the gains slow after week 5?? What's your take on that?

Have you run Epi solo and did you like it? Where the lean dry gains good?


Lastly, what if I stacked Epi with clen and t3? Is that to much for a rookie?

I read somewhere that oral steroids/prohormones significantly lower t3 so it's logical to run the clen/t3 stack along side..

Like I said in my OP I'm not looking to put on the maximum amount of muscle.

The goal is to use it to gain 5-10lbs while cutting bf or preserving muscle as I'm not huge.

Thanks

 

[UnrealMachine]

Epi didn't work on me except to give me better pumps and vascularity in the gym. But a lot of steroids don't work well on me. Epi works great for most people. Yes dry/"good" gains lol.

Leave clen and T3 out of this. I told you to do cardio everyday to recomp, not to attack the problem with more drugs.

Here's my advice. Get some Epi... You could go with 1 bottle of Epi-Strong that's 90 caps at 15mg/cap.
You can run that at 30/30/45/45/45.

Eat your standard 6 meals a day, aim for 250g of protein a day minimum. Enforce a 6pm carb cutoff. Try to do as much cardio as you can (every day you don't lift, go to the gym and do cardio). So get to the gym 7 days a week minimum.

You train hard, use a clean diet, get in all that cardio, you'll gain 5-10 pounds and drop some bodyfat.

Remember cardio is what cuts fat. Not just lifting weights business as usual with no cardio and throwing in clen and T3 to get lean. That's how lazy dumbasses cycle. IMO. Never let drugs be a substitute for hard work. Performance enhancing drugs are for people who work hard and need an extra edge, not for people trying to cut corners.

 

[TAPShr3d]

Sweet, thanks unreal. Last question bro would the superdrol/Epi be to suppressive?

I kind of would like to do that stack as the sd brings quick gains in strength and size and I could solidify them with the Epi all while maintaining a clean diet with card to stay lean?

Your thoughts?

Lastly, I've read up on hcg and it seems the general consensus is take it if your cycles are longer then 5 weeks. Well if I do the superdrol/Epi stack for 6 weeks should I consider hcg alongside at 250ui 3x week to keep me from being shut down to bad?

I'm being overly cautious as I don't want to permanently mess myself up to where I'm all swole but my wife or any woman makes more testosterone then I do lol.

Thanks bro.

 

[UnrealMachine]

My thoughts? i've given you my advice. It's up to you to decide what to do.

SD/Epi too suppressive? Who knows, it's your first cycle so you don't really know how well you will be able to recover. Some people recover easier than others.

hCG... again too much too complex for your first cycle. You would run SD/Epi with T3/Clen and hCG as a first cycle. Keep it simple!

I think if you run Epi as I outlined you will be pleased. There's no reason to start with so many drugs. You will do a 2nd cycle, and then a 3rd. Nobody does just one cycle. There's plenty of opportunities to run SD, there's plenty of opportunities to run T3, clen, hCG you name it. If you really want to run SD/Epi bridge then just do it, you're an adult so you can make your own decisions and it is a good cycle.

The main thing is that I want you to lean up on your cycle by doing more cardio not by cutting calories or adding weightloss chems.

edit: i'm doing a cut right now... to accomplish that I'm doing 20 minutes of cardio after I lift in the morning while sipping glutamine, and then I'm doing 40 minutes of cardio at night. Everyday. Going to the gym twice a day every day. That's a good cut. You add some anabolics and some more calories and it becomes a recomp.

 

[Tone]

I just recently ran a Mdrol/Epi bridge similar to what you have outlined, it was great, I gained a solid 18lbs, but still put on about 2% bf. I was supressed horribly though.. You have plenty of time to run a bridge, for your first cycle i would NOT recommend this bridge. I say run the Epi alone and see how you do, I promise you that you will enjoy your cycle, learn how to cycle so that way when you do run this bridge or the superdrol you will have a better understanding on how YOUR body works while on cycle. Trust me, if you are going to run this bridge you will want to BULK during it... Epi would be a good cut/recomp, but in my opinion i would bulk up and cut later The more muscle mass, the higher the metabolism the easier it is to cut. IMO. but like unreal said get your workout and DIET in check before you start. If you don't, you won't follow through and you won't get the most out of your experience.

 

[gymrat827]

Run the epi alone for 5 wks. Don't mess with sd so soon. Take something like cycle assist or life support cuz ur missing some support supps also drop the jack3d til pct

 

[kkcinc]

I too have run SD/Epi bridge. It was a great cycle, but I had done many others prior. Like everyone else says; wait on the bridge and skip the other drugs altogether. Your liver will appreciate it. My opinion differs here in that I would have you try the solo SD cycle starting at 10mg ed, then go to 20mg ed. My reasoning is that it can be a quick muscle building cycle and sides are manageable at 3 weeks. After three weeks you are done, except for pct. If you don't do well you can stop. You're not waisting six weeks experimenting and another six weeks pct-ing. Whatever you decide, get a ton of taurine powder to combat the calf pumps and back pumps. They were so bad for me on a tren/SD stack that I had to stop cardio altogether. Pay attention to your body. When I increased doses as I went along, my BP went nutz and I had to back down.

I think you will love a straight SD cycle.

 

[TAPShr3d]

Hey thanks for the advice fellas

Gymrat can you ellaborate on why to drop the jacked until PCT?

 

[TAPShr3d]

I know lots of peeps run some creatine post cycle to keep strength up which I'll probably do.

I was under the impression that a lot of people get lethargic on Epistane...

 

[colindep]

I know lots of peeps run some creatine post cycle to keep strength up which I'll probably do.

I was under the impression that a lot of people get lethargic on Epistane...

For me lethargy was more of an issue with SD but that can be managed with carbs and coffee. Thats another reason that SD is best used for a bulk because from what I understand if you don't keep the carb intake relatively high lethargy can become a big problem.

 

[TAPShr3d]

Thanks everyone. You guys rock.

I just placed on order on of the goods!!

Here's what I got:
2 bottles or havoc (Epistane)
Cycle assist
Primordial formestane

I'm freaking pumped!! I decided to take yalls advice and wait up on the superdrol.

I figured after this cycle the next one will be halodrol/superdrol

So something like mdrol/hdrol or some combo of those two compounds. Don't know yet need to do more research.

I still have to get my PCT supps before I start.

What's yalls take on Clomid and Nolva? I was considering taking both as I originally was going to run a more suppressive stack but now that I'm running just the Epi I think it would be better if I just ran one or the other. Also cheaper.

What's yall's take on it??

Thanks

 

[Tone]

clomid and nolva are both good.. from what i have seen and my experience, clomid is better on test recover, and nolva better for gyno protection... but they are both very good for PCT, and if you only run the EPI, I don't think you will need both, so either one would be good to go, you can do one this time, and the other the next time and see which one you like best.... everybody is different, so only you will know which one is better for you... good luck dude.

 

[TAPShr3d]

Sweet. So I guess I'm gonna go with Clomid and an AI (formestane) for any sort of estrogen rebound post cycle.

What's everyonez thoughts on an AI on cycle. I read of some people doing it which is weird considering Epi doesn't aromatize.

Thoughts??

 

[kkcinc]

No need for AI on cycle. Epi takes care of that for you. PCT usually shouldn't use AI until start of third week as your test rises so will your estrogen. I like to stretch PCT like this:
Day one 100mg clomid
Rest of week one 50mg clomid
week two 50mg clomid
week three 50mg clomid and otc AI (AX APCT favorite)
week four 25mg clomid and otc AI
week five-six otc AI tapered down slowly.
This ALWAYS brings my test levels back to normal with bloodwork to verify.
K

 

[TAPShr3d]

Hey thanks kk.

So following the PCT protocol your test was back to normal in 6 weeks or sooner?

I will also be using sustain alpha along with creatine and some other supporting supps to keep me jacked!

Any other info you guys think I should know or implement I'm all ears.

TIA

 

[TAPShr3d]

Now hopefully I can find some legit Clomid!!

Would hate to get some bunk stuff...

Havens found any reputable place.

Everyone wants a moneyorder to screw me.

?????