hCG - Unraveled: A valuable resource reference.
- 11-16-2010, 11:07 AM
hCG - Unraveled: A valuable resource reference.
HCG - UnraveledBy Eric M. Potratz (Email)
Eric M. Potratz has developed his education in the field of endocrinology and performance enhancement through years of research, counseling, and real world experience. Over the past five years he has been a private consultant for hundreds of athletes and bodybuilders alike, and is the founder & president of Primordial Performance[/I]. [/I]
Post-Cycle-Therapy is a must upon cessation of steroid use. Many great Post Cycle Therapy protocols have been outlined over the years, and many individuals have had success with following such protocols. Nevertheless, what works can always work better, and I intend to show you the most effective way to recover from AAS. This is especially the case for those that have had a lack of success following popular advice. In this article I will address the misunderstanding and misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and show you the most efficient way to use hCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.
hCG unraveled -
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to increase testosterone levels. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.
When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) - All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during Post-Cycle-Therapy. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.
First, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960's) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function - but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won't regain full testicular function.
One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given level of LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger natural testosterone production - and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production. (recovering full testosterone production is a topic for another article)
To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)
Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) So do not judge how "shutdown" you are by testicular size!
The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production) 20
In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn't use it on cycle.
Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it's important to discontinue the hCG before you start Post-Cycle-Therapy so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body's own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)
Based off the above information, an optimal dose of hCG during the cycle would be 250iu every 4 days, or as a less desirable alternative, once a week shot of 500iu. Keep in mind, that the half-life of hCG is 3-4 days, while the half-life of LH is only 1-2 hours. Considering this difference in excretion time, it is best to space each dose of hCG at least 4 days apart for the optimal "peak and valley" replication. However, going more than 7 days between each hCG shot may promote increase the rate of desensitization from lack of LH or hCG stimulation.
If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG "kick starting" dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)
Remember, since the testes will be desensitized later in a cycle, you will require a higher dose. Also, the maximum daily dose of hCG should not exceed 5000iu, and 4-7 days must be taken off between each shot. Generally, a higher dose will require a longer off period between each shot. (eg., 2500iu = 7 days between each shot)
Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 250iu every 4 day starting 14 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels. This will initiate a strong LH and FSH surge from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn't begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.
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Pierce JG, Parsons TF 1981
Annu Rev Biochem 50:466-495
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Andrea D. Coviello, et al
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SM Mendis-Handagama, et al.
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Keeney DS, et al.
Endocrinology 1988; 123:2906-2915.
6.The Effects of Gonadotropin Suppression and Selective Replacement on Insulin-Like Factor 3 Secretion in Normal Adult Men
Katrine Bay, et al
J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Mar 2006; 91: 1108 - 1111.
7. Successful treatment of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia with human
chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin
Dev Kumar Menon, et al.
FERTILITY AND STERILITY VOL. 79, SUPPL. 3, JUNE 2003
8. Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic godadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes
Hannu et al.
J. Steroid Biochem. Vol. 25, No. 1 pp. 109-112 (1986)
9. Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate of testosterone cypionate.
Schulte-Beerbuhl M, et al 1980
Fertil Steril 33:201-203
10. Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production.
Matsumoto AM, et al 1990
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 70:282-287
11. Effect of human chorionic gonadotropin on plasma steroid levels in young and old men.
Longcope C et al
Steroids 21:583-590 (1973)
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Catt KJ, et al
Rec Prog Horm Res 1980; 36:557-622
13. Effect of human chorionic gonadotropin on the endocrine function of Papio testes
GV Katsiia, et al
Probl Endokrinol (Mosk), Sep 1984; 30(5): 68-71.
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Nieschlag E, et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 55:676-681 (1982)
15. The aging Leydig cell III Gonadotropin stimulation in men.
Nankin HR, et al. 1981
J Androl 2:181-189
16. Reproductive hormones in aging men. I. Measurement of sex steroids, basal luteinizing hormone, and Leydig cell response to human chorionic gonadotropin.
Harman SM, et al. 1980
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 51:35-40
17. Prolonged biphasic response of plasma testosterone to single intramuscular injections of human chorionic gonadotropin.
Padron RS, et al. 1980
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 50:1100-1104
18. Gonadotrophins and plasma testosterone in senescence. In: James VHT, Serio M, Martini L, eds. The endocrine function of the human testis.
Mazzi C, et al. 1974
New York: Academic Press, Inc.; 51-66
19. Androgen biosynthesis in Leydig cells after testicular desensitization by luteinizing hormone-releasing hormone and human chorionic gonadotropin.
Dufau ML, et al.
Endocrinology 105 1314-1321 (1979)
20. Insulin-Like Factor 3 Serum Levels in 135 Normal Men and 85 Men with Testicular Disorders: Relationship to the Luteinizing Hormone-Testosterone Axis
K. Bay, S. et al
J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Jun 2005; 90: 3410 - 3418.
21. Stimulation of sperm production by human chorionic gonadotropin after prolonged gonadotropin suppression in normal men.
Matsumoto AM, et al 1985
J Androl 6:137-143
22. Human chorionic gonadotropin and testicular function: stimulation of testosterone, testosterone precursors, and sperm production despite high estradiol levels.
Matsumoto AM, et al. 1983
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 56:720-728
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
- 11-16-2010, 11:09 AM
11-16-2010, 11:12 AM
11-16-2010, 11:12 AM
Dear AM members,
I'm proud to present the official Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) of 2009/2010.
If you're considering using pro-hormones, or even illegal anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS’s), then you should read this article before going any further.
Some information given here will be new, some will be old, but all of it is based off successful real-world protocols developed from the counseling of hundreds of athletes and bodybuilders worldwide. The information presented here will allow you to come clean from a cycle while keeping your gains, surging your sex drive, and making you feel healthier than you ever have before.
Before we get into the details I want to illustrate several major problems with the average PCT protocol -
Mega-Dosing of SERMs
There is no doubt that SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) such as Clomid and Nolvadex can stimulate testosterone production.
Unfortunately, these drugs can have a host of side effects including -
- Liver Toxicity
- Reduced Libido
- Ocular Toxicity/Blurred Vision
- Emotional Side-effects
Clomid in particular can lead to emotional side-effects and cause a man to feel like a weeping and emotionally distressed pregnant woman. This is because Clomid acts like an estrogen in certain parts of the brain and causes serious emotional episodes. To read more about the side-effects of SERM's, read this
In the “Perfect PCT” section below we will discuss the proper use of SERM’s for PCT.
Over Use of Anti-Estrogens
Aromatase inhibitors (AI's) such as Arimidex, Aromasin, and Formestane are powerful tools for reducing estrogen conversion from heavily aromatizing drugs such as Testosterone or Dianabol. While these drugs are sometimes useful during cycle, these drugs are often counter-productive to use during PCT.
More specifically, it is a common misconception that estrogen will be elevated post cycle. Generally, estrogen is below a normal level after a cycle, especially if the cycle consisted primarily of non-aromatizing (non-estrogenic) AAS's or pro-hormones. Additionally, if one uses proper anti-estrogen's during a cycle with aromatizing AAS's then estrogen will not be elevated in this scenario either. Therefore, assuming proper AI's are used during cycle, I can only recommend an AI be used for PCT if hCG is also used.
Using AI's when they are not needed can lead to extremely low estrogen, which can cause the following side-effects -
- Lower Sex Drive / Erectile dysfunction
- Joint Pain
- Lower HDL levels
- Increased Risk of Heart Disease
Ultimately, this hurts your long and short term recovery and does not benefit you. Don't forget, normal levels of estrogen are necessary to support libido, muscle recovery, and testicular function.
Improper use of hCG
Using hCG after the cycle is the least effective way to use hCG.
You see, when you're on steroids, your brain cuts off the signal to the testes, and your testes stop producing testosterone. Once this happens, your testes shutdown, start to shrink, and become unresponsive to stimulation from the brain (essentially, the testes become desensitized). This is the reason why alot of guys never recover from a steroid cycle even after using tons of hCG and SERM's -- because the testes have stayed inactive for too long and have become permanently desensitized.
Here are a list of problems you can have from waiting untill the end of a cycle to use hCG -
- High Possibility of Permanent Testicular Damage/Desensitization
- Higher hCG Dose Requirement
- Higher Conversion Rate to Estrogen
For a fast and quick recovery of testosterone production after a cycle, you must avoid the long-periods of suppression. Once your testes go unused for too long, it is virtually impossible to get them to come back full strength, no matter how much hCG you take. For more detailed information on testicular degeneration of testicular function during a steroid cycle, see this .
hCG during cycle - The Proper use of hCG
For any cycle longer than 6 weeks, you need to get your hands on some hCG and use it during the cycle. A small dose will keep the testes running as normal during cycle, so they can jump back on track when the cycle is over. Plus, when you use hCG during the cycle, you don't need to use it for PCT.
On-cycle hCG forces your testes to continue producing testosterone as they normally would. The trick with on-cycle hCG use is to avoid using too much, too frequently (which can also desensitize your testes the same as not using any at all!). It’s important to use just enough to stimulate the testes to produce the same amount of testosterone they would normally.
Check out the simple hCG dosing guidelines -
* Every 4 days = Shoot on Monday, then on Friday, then on Tuesday, ect.
† AI - Aromatase Inhibitor (While taking 1000iu shots, I recommend 10mg/ED of Aromasin or .5mg/ED Arimidex to keep estrogen in control. Legal alternatives include and which are also effective aromatase inhibitors. Discontinue AI 4 days after last hCG shot.)
If you are doing the on-cycle hCG protocol it is important to discontinue hCG 2 weeks prior to AAS clearance. Therefore, when you officially start PCT you will be clean of all AAS's and will be 14 days from your last hCG shot. This allows your testes to become re-sensitized to the body's LH signal from the brain, making for a quick recovery of natural testosterone production as soon as the steroids and hCG clear the system. This is another reason why on-cycle hCG is superior, because it allows you to start recovering as soon as PCT begins.
If you aren't doing hCG on-cycle, then use hCG according to the "last 2 weeks or after the cycle" guidelines, and start it 4-5 weeks before the AAS's are expected to clear the system (Or as soon as possible if you are already past this point).
For AAS clearance times, see the table in the last section.
The Perfect PCT
Since SERMs can help stimulate testosterone production, we will allow them in our PCT, but at a much lower dose that what most “forum gurus” suggest. The goal with SERM’s is to dose them for maximum benefit with minimal side-effects, and only use them when they are necessary. If your cycle is longer than 6 weeks, and you are not running hCG during the cycle, then I recommend a SERM during PCT in combination with the (TRS) -- A completely legal, natural, tried & true PCT stack. (about to be discussed)
I recommend the following SERM’s, in order of most to least desirable –
Toremifene – 40mg/day
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) – 10mg/day
Clomid (Clomiphene) – 25mg/day
As I mentioned above, hCG should be used for any cycle longer than 6 weeks. If you follow the proper hCG protocol, then it will be much easier to recover for PCT, and the TRS alone will be sufficient for recovery. However, if hCG was not used, then you will likely benefit from stacking one of the above listed SERM’s with the TRS. (since you will need all the help you can get)
The TRS has proven to be so safe & effective, that guys are shunning Clomid and Nolvadex every chance they get and using the TRS alone for PCT. Hundreds of testimonials and dozens of blood tests from real life customers have proven the Testosterone Recovery Stack to be just as effective as a SERM for PCT, but without the side effects. For those that may want additional support for PCT, the TRS stacks synergistically with low responsible doses of SERMs. (Just checkout the PCT Stacking Guideline table below)
So what exactly is the TRS?
The main product in the TRS is the legendary -- a natural testosterone boosting topical cream.
It's no surprise that Sustain Alpha is the foundation of the TRS. It’s powerful active ingredients are pulled through the skin and straight to the blood stream with our advanced topical delivery formula. Once in the blood, they are carried to the brain – right where they start triggering the testes to produce testosterone like a fountain of youth.
Speaking of the triggering testosterone production; How does Sustain Alpha work?
The main ingredients in Sustain Alpha – resveratrol and 7,8-benzoflavone – are natural anti-estrogens. However, both of these compounds have proven to be more like estrogen balancers as blood tests have revealed that Sustain Alpha can raise estrogen if it is too low or lower estrogen if it is too high – therefore offering the ideal solution for virtually any individual.
You see, a little estrogen is a good thing. Too low of estrogen can reduce libido, inhibit recovery, and hurt heart health by raising bad cholesterol. (a typical side-effect of using pharmaceuticals like Arimidex or Aromasin which can overly suppress estrogen levels as I mentioned earlier)
So the question is…
If Sustain Alpha isn't significantly inhibiting estrogen, then how exactly is it significantly increasing LH, FSH and natural testosterone levels?
Before jumping into the science let me give you a brief background on hormone production -
Basic Hormone Production
The Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA)
In a normal healthy male luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) are sent from the brain (the pituitary) to stimulate the testes to make testosterone and sperm.
The release of LH & FSH from the pituitary is stimulated by Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is stimulated to produce GnRH when it senses low levels of testosterone and estrogen. (hypothalamus [GnRH] --- > pituitary [LH & FSH]--- > testes [testosterone])
On the other hand, when the brain detects high levels of testosterone and estrogen it suppresses the release of GnRH, LH & FSH, and eventually testosterone production. This is called the negative feedback loop – the normal daily rhythm of hormone production.
Traditionally, boosting LH & FSH to stimulate testosterone involved the use of a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) to directly block estrogen at the receptor (eg, Clomid & Nolvadex) or inhibition of estrogen formation by blocking the aromatase enzyme with aromatase inhibitors (eg, ATD, 6-bromo, formestane, Aromasin, Letrozol, ect).
Now on to the science on what makes Sustain Alpha so unique...
Recently, it has been found that the main ingredient in Sustain Alpha – the naturally occurring flavone 7,8-Benzoflavone -- increases testosterone production by preventing the negative feedback of testosterone and estrogen on the hypothalamus through GABAergic modulation.
That's right, GABAergic modulation, but please let me explain before jumping out of your seat.
As you may know, γ-amino-butyric acid (GABA) is an inhibitory neurotransmitter known to play an important role in sleep, learning, memory and pain sensation. In fact, GABA supplements are often used to promote relaxation and sleep. However, the GABAergic system is a tremendously complex family of receptors which interact not only with GABA, but hundreds of other neuro-active chemicals all throughout the body.
The important thing to understand here is that GABA and GABAergic transmission are two separate things.
With that in mind, researchers are just beginning to understand how the GABAergic system regulates the hypothalamus and GnRH secretion.
So far, it's been established that there is no androgen receptor (AR) or estrogen receptor (ER) on GnRH releasing neurons. This is fascinating, because it means that steroid hormones such as testosterone and estrogen must communicate with GnRH neurons through intermediaries. Meaning, steroid hormones must signal the release of certain neurotransmitters to suppress GnRH secretion in the hypothalamus. One of the neurotransmitter systems involved in this communication process is the GABAergic system.
As you can imagine, if the neurotransmitters can be blocked or antagonized, then suppression from steroid hormones can be reduced or possibly eliminated. By blocking the suppression, this allows the hypothalamus to continue secreting GnRH, thus allowing the testes to continue pumping out testosterone like they never missed a beat!
7,8-benzoflavone is a neuro-active flavone that reaches the hypothalamus and binds to the GABAergic receptors that modulate GnRH release. In fact, animal studies have already shown 7,8-benzoflavone can prevent the drug related decline in LH, FSH and testosterone production. By interacting with the GABAergic receptors, 7,8-benzoflavone is able to offset hypothalamic suppression of GnRH from steroid hormones.
We realized the incredible potential of this flavone, and recently increased the concentration of 7,8-benzoflavone by 15% in the newest 5.0 formula. Now, Sustain Alpha is more potent than ever.
So what does this mean for a guy wanting to boost testosterone?
This means LH & FSH levels can be boosted quickly and effectively without overly suppressing estrogen and sacrificing overall health. This means Sustain Alpha is perfect for any PCT, or any male wishing to optimize his "male performance" with higher testosterone levels. This also means that Sustain Alpha is unlike anything else on the market.
Yet, there is one factor that will keep you from getting maximum gains from Sustain Alpha, and that is testicular sensitivity.
Let me explain…
No matter how much LH & FSH the brain secretes, the testes won't secrete testosterone if they are desensitized to LH & FSH. (remember, this can happen from too much, or not enough LH & FSH stimulation)
Therefore, maintaining testicular sensitivity is critical, and this is precisely what Toco-8 was designed for.
Toco-8 is a powdered tocotrienol supplement proven to increase testicular sensitivity. When taken with Sustain Alpha, a powerful synergy occurs. By increasing testicular sensitivity, Toco-8 makes Sustain Alpha 3-4x more effective, thus allowing the body to produce more testosterone than it ever could before. Research has also proven that Toco-8 can increase the effectiveness of hCG by the same mechanism. Consider Toco-8 the beginning of a great testicular awakening – critical for a strong testosterone response to LH & FSH stimulation.
The final piece of the TRS is cortisol control.
Cortisol is a nasty stress hormone that can breakdown muscle tissue and reduce the ability of the body to produce testosterone. This is especially bad during PCT when getting testosterone levels up as quickly as possible is the #1 goal.
Each serving of EndoAmp gains a scientifically proven 800mg dose of phosphatidylserine (PS). This is the exact same dose used in human clinical trials to suppress cortisol, raise testosterone and prevent muscle breakdown. PS is a very important naturally occurring phospholipid which helps reduce stress related catabolism and cortisol release.
Take hCG during the cycle if your cycle is over 6 weeks (follow the guidelines above for hCG dosing).
For PCT, use the TRS, which includes the testosterone surging Sustain Alpha, the testicular sensitizer Toco-8, and the cortisol blocker EndoAmp. Stack this with a low dose SERM if desired (see stacking guidelines below).
To make things easy just follow the below table for when to discontinue AAS’s prior to PCT -
Then follow this table for PCT -
* Toremifene is the #1 perferred SERM, followed by Nolvadex, followed by Clomid.
Apply Sustain Alpha anytime of the day, after a shower. Use 5 days on, 2 days off.
Take Toco-8 anytime during the day with or without food.
Take 1 scoop of EndoAmp after workouts or in the morning on non-workout days.
Make no mistake, the TRS is one of the most powerful testosterone simulating stacks on the market, but don’t take my word for it. Jump on Google or any major bodybuilding forum and put in a search for the above products -- you will see they are the real deal, backed by thousands of positive reviews from actual users.
I’d like to thank you for reading the Official PCT for 2009 and supporting !
Yours in health & fitness,
Primordial Founder & President
Phone – 1-800-568-2924
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
11-16-2010, 11:16 AM
Don't miss out on our current sale! The definitive OTC PCT stack is better than ever with the addition of a FREE TCF-1!!!
This stack is one of (if not thee) most effective OTC PCT options available on the market. The resounding positive feedback it's received over the years speaks for itself! Now with the addition of our TCF-1, the best just got even better!
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
11-16-2010, 12:55 PM
wow, that is a tres useful thread!
i've been looking into products to help me recover on and off cycle (OTC). i shall research toco8 some more...
PCT: if I have tamoxifen, and suppress C, and act xtreme, would there be any benefit in adding toco 8 after my cycle? (5 week oral cycle with SD or PPlex, and stanodrol). If im hijacking, PM me and ill delete this post
11-16-2010, 01:29 PM
Trauma1 this will be another thread that I print for a reference guide.
However I do have a question about Toco 8:
Since Toco 8 has been proven to raise HDL while lowering LDL, could it be run year round as a staple supplement or should it be cycled?
11-16-2010, 03:15 PM
11-16-2010, 03:27 PM
I will have to dig but I remember finding a study showing that there was mild teste atrophy as soon as 4 days without LH. I am just shocked how many people still run HCG in PCT.... nice post
11-16-2010, 03:44 PM
It amazes me as well. The testes can become severly desensitized during a long duration AAS cycle. Some of these effects can even become permanent resulting in varying degrees of reduced primary gonadal function (e.g., primary hypogonadism).
If you can maintain testicular senstitivity and function thoughout the vast duration of the cycle (though the use of hCG), your PCT will be a breeze. The quicker you can upregulate your own endogenous test production, the easier it will be to preserve those hard earned gains.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
11-16-2010, 04:02 PM
11-16-2010, 07:25 PM
11-16-2010, 08:13 PM
11-16-2010, 08:19 PM
Toco-8 is a very complete vitamin E product containing all 8 isomers. Vitamin E is a fat soluble vitamin; meaning it will be stored in the body when it's not needed; where as water soluble vitamins are used from what's available in the the blood stream after ingestion and then renally excreted.
You can absolutely use this product year round with our recommendation of (1) scoop/daily due tpo the myriad of health benefits it provides overall. I wouldn't go above these recommendations due to the fact that this product is fat soluble and will be stored in the body. The fat soluble vitamins are: A,D,E,K. You want to get a sufficient intake daily, but you don't want to overdue it either and risk issues associated with toxicity.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
11-17-2010, 12:37 AM
Legendary thread John!
11-17-2010, 06:52 AM
11-18-2010, 12:57 PM
11-19-2010, 01:04 AM
Some of these pieces will be written by yours truly.
Make sure to take advantage of our TRS and FREE TCF-1 sale as well!
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
11-19-2010, 01:22 AM
11-19-2010, 02:48 AM
11-20-2010, 04:15 PM
11-20-2010, 10:01 PM
I am very interested in the SERM list. To my understanding most prefer clomid over nolva, yet you have them switched and also have Toremifene listed as most desirable. The dosages seem a bit low as well?
Also nice pointing out that HCGhenerate is not HCG and does not work the same on cycle. Thats very helpful info.
Oh another notable concept.. no AI during post cycle. Thats also not what I currently know to be proper. Time to try to sort out the two different viewpoints!
04-07-2011, 10:25 PM
Just bumping a few older threads I feel should be brought back to light
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
Strongest On The Market
RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
04-07-2011, 10:46 PM
04-07-2011, 10:49 PM
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
Strongest On The Market
RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
04-09-2011, 08:12 PM
I think hCG is a way overlooked item for longer 8+ week cycles.
For those interested in the TRS for PCT, using coupon code MAXPCT will net you a free TCF-1 with your TRS purchase!
09-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Old Bump! Good info to be shared in this thread
09-13-2012, 02:56 PM
Concerning the post about PCT, if anyone wants to try the TRS, hit me up for a coupon
09-14-2012, 01:29 PM
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