Why is Dymethazine (and its clones) so hit and miss?

[mark118]

I've read many logs praising and ragging on Dymethazine (and its clones).

Do you guys think this is because Dymeth is an inferior/unreliable product or because those who dont respond to SD wont respond to Dymeth either?

Hard to know what the truth is, as with many things in the world of anabolics

 

[Presa]

Finally someone else has recognized why dimethazine died on the vine. It has been around since the 60's but was "forgotten" for good reason. Superdrol is not hit or miss but it appears that in humans, dimethazine is and was. I tried it twice and had two misses with two different companies.

 

[EasyEJL]

I was underimpressed by initial reviews as it seemed to me that the required dose of dymethazine to get good results (45mg+) was also above the threshhold of where you get negative sides. If you look at the very first initial logs, something like half the loggers never finished the logs.

 

[Presa]

Totally agree. Dimethazine was called Roxilon According to Llewellyn and was basically forgotten. In the current arena of AAS disguised as PH's, there are just better options. At least for the time being.....

 

[UnrealMachine]

Yea the feedback I have seen is also very hit or miss so I usually tell people if they want Superdrol just use superdrol. Dimeth is not the same... and certainly isn't "SD gains without the sides" like it was advertised to be.

 

[schwellington]

so dieselbolan v2 is worthless?!

 

[BigFatPanda]

so dieselbolan v2 is worthless?!

I doubt its worthless. It seems jbry is getting good results with it. If you can wait that long, I'll run a log with it in january.

 

[schwellington]

ya ya i wait- i got two bottles for next winter

 

[chocolatemilk]

Schwell..

Kleen is also logging Dimethazine at the moment I believe. He is getting good results.

You never know if it being "hit or miss" is dependent on the human body, or the quality of the product the company is selling.

I believe quality of the product has more of a role to play on it being a "hit or miss" than just people responding and not responding.

A quality Dimethazine will do what Dimethazine is supposed to do.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, I just would have liked it to be a 10mg/30mg mix, so 30mg of dymethazine with 90mg 13-methoxy

 

[BigFatPanda]

Schwell..

Kleen is also logging Dimethazine at the moment I believe. He is getting good results.

You never know if it being "hit or miss" is dependent on the human body, or the quality of the product the company is selling.

I believe quality of the product has more of a role to play on it being a "hit or miss" than just people responding and not responding.

A quality Dimethazine will do what Dimethazine is supposed to do.

I agree about quality. Wasn't there an issue with a certain PH company watering down supps.

 

[zachmanman]

I agree about quality. Wasn't there an issue with a certain PH company watering down supps.

nb4 beastdrol lovers start talking about CEL

 

[tim1985]

Im on IronMagLabs Super DMZ and I have put on 10lbs so far, I have 1 week left and I have enjoyed it so far.

 

[jbryand101b]

Yeah, I just would have liked it to be a 10mg/30mg mix, so 30mg of dymethazine with 90mg 13-methoxy

yea, me too. I want to up the max lmg to 100mg, but dont want to take 40mg of dimethazine.

guys, keep this in mind, I ran the iforce dymethazine product, which contained DIMETHAZINE.

I ran it at 30mg, it was okay, but really felt it needed to be used with an aromatizable compound, like testosterone.

After I started reading up on max lmg & what it converts into, and realized this is not a progestin, but an actual steroid, I became more interested in it.

I think the combonation of max lmg & dimethazine were a great idea.

I'd also like to give epistane & max lmg a try later down the road.

 

[BigFatPanda]

yea, me too. I want to up the max lmg to 100mg, but dont want to take 40mg of dimethazine.

guys, keep this in mind, I ran the iforce dymethazine product, which contained DIMETHAZINE.

I ran it at 30mg, it was okay, but really felt it needed to be used with an aromatizable compound, like testosterone.

After I started reading up on max lmg & what it converts into, and realized this is not a progestin, but an actual steroid, I became more interested in it.

I think the combonation of max lmg & dimethazine were a great idea.

I'd also like to give epistane & max lmg a try later down the road.

wait so now m-lmg is not a progestin????

 

[hardknock]

wait so now m-lmg is not a progestin????

???? a progestin?

I am not following your question?

 

[BigFatPanda]

jbry just said it's not a progestin, but it is a progestin...

 

[chocolatemilk]

I think what he meant was what m-lmg converts into is not a progestin... I think.

 

[BigFatPanda]

I think what he meant was what m-lmg converts into is not a progestin... I think.

that makes no sense either because it has strong activity towards progesterone receptors

 

[chocolatemilk]

Yea I don't know what he meant... We'll see when he responds.

 

[jbryand101b]

max lmg is an ethylated (think 17aa) pro hormone.

starting out, it resembles the birth control pill which is an actual progestin.

the progestin receptor binding is secondary to this compound, as well as other steroids.

after the compound hits the stomach acids, it is converted via those acids into a pro hormone which is similar to norbolethone. (another 17aa oral ethylated steroid)

most norandrogens will have some progestin receptor binding. but, they bind first & formost to the androgen receptor & have the structure of an androgen.

deca, trenbolen, nor testosterone, dienolone, norbolethone, these are all nor androgens.

max lmg has slightly more progestin binding affinity than deca.

calling a steroid a progestin because it has some interaction with the pr is a little off base.

alot of steroids bind to the progestin receptor.

People "claim" to say they know the difference, and know that compounds like max lmg aren't a progestin, but call them that to imply they bind to the progestin receptor. well, I really dont think they do know, cause if they did, they would be calling alot more steroids progestins.

this is just info based off of mis represented labels from companies releasing steroids and not knowing, or caring to accurately describe the compounds.

lets all start running around calling deca a progestin, or trenbolone a progestin. you'll get some funny looks at the gym if you do that.

 

[BigFatPanda]

max lmg is an ethylated (think 17aa) pro hormone.

starting out, it resembles the birth control pill which is an actual progestin.

the progestin receptor binding is secondary to this compound, as well as other steroids.

after the compound hits the stomach acids, it is converted via those acids into a pro hormone which is similar to norbolethone. (another 17aa oral ethylated steroid)

most norandrogens will have some progestin receptor binding. but, they bind first & formost to the androgen receptor & have the structure of an androgen.

deca, trenbolen, nor testosterone, dienolone, norbolethone, these are all nor androgens.

max lmg has slightly more progestin binding affinity than deca.

calling a steroid a progestin because it has some interaction with the pr is a little off base.

alot of steroids bind to the progestin receptor.

People "claim" to say they know the difference, and know that compounds like max lmg aren't a progestin, but call them that to imply they bind to the progestin receptor. well, I really dont think they do know, cause if they did, they would be calling alot more steroids progestins.

this is just info based off of mis represented labels from companies releasing steroids and not knowing, or caring to accurately describe the compounds.

lets all start running around calling deca a progestin, or trenbolone a progestin. you'll get some funny looks at the gym if you do that.

Thanks for the clarification.

So, naturally androgens are more androgenic than nor adrogens right? Also, does that mean that Tren is not a progestin and a nor androgen?

 

[stxnas]

A lot of it is indeed semantics. The same way in which the industry refers to SD as a prohormone. For the sake of conversation, if someone says something is a progestin, they likely mean that it is an androgen/norandrogen with accompanying progesterone effects.

...or maybe people really don't realize this :think:

EDIT: If you really want to blow somebody's mind, tell them that all oral AAS have some degree of progestational activity. Some just much more than others. PA taught me that. It might have been here, but he basically had this same conversation here...I want to say in the past two years.

 

[BigFatPanda]

A lot of it is indeed semantics. The same way in which the industry refers to SD as a prohormone. For the sake of conversation, if someone says something is a progestin, they likely mean that it is an androgen with accompanying progesterone effects.

...or maybe people really don't realize this :think:

You'd be surprised. There is a lot of incorrect information out there. The best part is when you think a source is reliable...tunedsports, primordialperformance, etc. and yet the info is not correct there either.

 

[stxnas]

Honestly, I'm guilty of this semantic laziness myself :ntome:

EDIT: I just reread Jbry's post (#21). We seem to more or less agree and made many of the same points. I can't find PA's conversation about "Progestins" in the "PH" market (see what I did there?). It might have been over at bb.com.

I didn't see anything that Jbry said that I don't agree with (not that what I think counts for much, lol).

 

[jbryand101b]

might have been. I've talked with him about max lmg before. but not in any great detail.

talking to that guy makes me feel stupid. the more I learn, the more I realize I dont know.

 

[stxnas]

LOL, I know what you mean. I've had a couple of private conversations with him.

I don't think the thread that I referenced was about Max LMG, per se. I think it was just basically about classifying androstanes, norandrostanes, and the actual lack of progestins on the market.

 

[gamer2be08]

Finally someone else has recognized why dimethazine died on the vine. It has been around since the 60's but was "forgotten" for good reason. Superdrol is not hit or miss but it appears that in humans, dimethazine is and was. I tried it twice and had two misses with two different companies.

I believe superdrol is hit or miss, like testosterone is hit or miss..
All depends on the individual response to the hormone bro.

 

[mark118]

hmm, interesting stuff.

I've been reading MrKleen's log and it looks great. However, some people respond to eg cynostane and others not. Not read many logs/opinions of people not responding to SD. Would be a fun test to try DMZ on the SD non-responders and vice versa

 

[stxnas]

IMO, most times when people don't "respond" to an anabolic , it's due to diet, unrealistic expectations (for the product or the dose they're taking)...and occasionally, a bunk product.

GAMER - YOUR PM BOX IS FULL, FOOL!

 

[gamer2be08]

IMO, most times when people don't "respond" to an anabolic , it's due to diet, unrealistic expectations (for the product or the dose they're taking)...and occasionally, a bunk product.

GAMER - YOUR PM BOX IS FULL, FOOL!

I think I am eating enough brah ...
I guess I expected too much from SD.. Was expecting 15+lbs hehe..
PM box empt

 

[on the run]

so dieselbolan v2 is worthless?!

i gained 22lbs on a 6 week run so it can't be too bad

 

[shiftless]

Dunno about the "hit or miss" thing. All I know is I have taken a few cycles of both Dymeth and Dzine and in each case I have seen excellent gains. "SD gains without sides" would be an accurate description. Dzine + PPlex is a hell of a good stack.

 

[TGSmithJr]

IMO, most times when people don't "respond" to an anabolic , it's due to diet, unrealistic expectations (for the product or the dose they're taking)...and occasionally, a bunk product.

I disagree with this statement. I've read logs from people who seem to have everything in check (training, diet, lots of AAS/PH prior experience) who simply don't get good results sometimes on a new product. I think that a persons individual biochemsitry and hormonal genetic make-up has more to do with which compounds they do or don't respond to. I think Unreal Machine being a non-responder to Test is the perfect example.

As to Dymethazine, my experience was pretty awesome. I did a 4 weeks dimeth+halodrol stack (dimeth dosed at 15/30/30/45, halo at 25/50/50/75) and gained about 25 lbs. Diet was a little dirty so it was probably about 15 lbs LBM. Also, +25 lbs in 4 weeks is HUGE for me, I was at about 150 before cycle. So, with the help of dymethazine, I gained about 17% of my starting weight.

 

[jbryand101b]

super dymethazine from iron mag seems to be a pretty good clone.

 

[T H E O R E M]

i just used Dimeth at 30mg and its pretty weak, while SD was just insane to be honest. it was great

 

[swollen87]

IMO, most times when people don't "respond" to an anabolic , it's due to diet, unrealistic expectations (for the product or the dose they're taking)...and occasionally, a bunk product.

GAMER - YOUR PM BOX IS FULL, FOOL!

agreed.. i believe there is no such thing as a "non-responder" unless the product is old or fake.... dzine (carbed up) i gained plenty of mass, but wasnt as i EXPECTED lol

 

[AwfullyAmazin]

agreed.. i believe there is no such thing as a "non-responder" unless the product is old or fake.... dzine (carbed up) i gained plenty of mass, but wasnt as i EXPECTED lol

QFT.

Brb immune to steroids.

 

[mich29]

Dymethazine is nearly identical to Superdrol, except it’s two (as opposed to one) superdrol molecules attached to each other, now based on this you may be thinking that Dzine is twice as powerful as Superdrol, this is not the case. Your bodies stomach acid separates these two molecules prior to absorption, so it becomes a single molecule just with two potential pathways, despite this difference Superdrol remains the more powerful compound.

The one advantage that Dymethazine has over Superdrol is the less likelihood of side effects or in the event of side effects being present they’re typically more manageable with dZine/dymethazine. Don’t take this as it being side-effect free, Dymethazine is an incredibly potent compound and carries the same risks as any other powerful anabolic steroid or pro-hormone.

 

[mark118]

Dymethazine is nearly identical to Superdrol, except it’s two (as opposed to one) superdrol molecules attached to each other, now based on this you may be thinking that Dzine is twice as powerful as Superdrol, this is not the case. Your bodies stomach acid separates these two molecules prior to absorption, so it becomes a single molecule just with two potential pathways, despite this difference Superdrol remains the more powerful compound.

The one advantage that Dymethazine has over Superdrol is the less likelihood of side effects or in the event of side effects being present they’re typically more manageable with dZine/dymethazine. Don’t take this as it being side-effect free, Dymethazine is an incredibly potent compound and carries the same risks as any other powerful anabolic steroid or pro-hormone.

iForce ''Dymethazine consists of 2 molecules joined together by an azine bond. Once metabolized, the molecules split, leaving one in its original form, and one with an azine bond which creates a hydrazone. ''

So in theory, half SD and half hydrazone. is it that simple? perhaps someone with some chemistry knowledge could chip in here.

but assuming it is that simple, in theory, even if the hydrazone is bunk, you'll still be getting the gains/toxicity/shutdown of some SD. the hydrazone would account for the less toxicity/shutdown. but then I dont see why people just run a lower dose of SD as virtually, not completely, nobody hasnt responded to SD whereas a lot do to DMZ.

IMO, either go for epi or SD, because this dmz is supposedly in the middle yet so hit and miss.

 

[mich29]

iForce ''Dymethazine consists of 2 molecules joined together by an azine bond. Once metabolized, the molecules split, leaving one in its original form, and one with an azine bond which creates a hydrazone. ''

So in theory, half SD and half hydrazone. is it that simple? perhaps someone with some chemistry knowledge could chip in here.

but assuming it is that simple, in theory, even if the hydrazone is bunk, you'll still be getting the gains/toxicity/shutdown of some SD. the hydrazone would account for the less toxicity/shutdown. but then I dont see why people just run a lower dose of SD as virtually, not completely, nobody hasnt responded to SD whereas a lot do to DMZ.

IMO, either go for epi or SD, because this dmz is supposedly in the middle yet so hit and miss.

theres a better write up on this some where.I'm rusty of the hydra thing as its been quite a awhile since I looked at dymeth. if I remember right it pretty much depends on how the users body funnels this stuff.VT I think would be able to break this down further though I believe.So its not like this is a bad compound it just comes down to how your body reacts and uses it.

 

[mark118]

theres a better write up on this some where.I'm rusty of the hydra thing as its been quite a awhile since I looked at dymeth. if I remember right it pretty much depends on how the users body funnels this stuff.VT I think would be able to break this down further though I believe.So its not like this is a bad compound it just comes down to how your body reacts and uses it.

if true, then its reasonable to assume why this is hit or miss as a compound.

 

[TML499]

yea, me too. I want to up the max lmg to 100mg, but dont want to take 40mg of dimethazine.

guys, keep this in mind, I ran the iforce dymethazine product, which contained DIMETHAZINE.

I ran it at 30mg, it was okay, but really felt it needed to be used with an aromatizable compound, like testosterone.

After I started reading up on max lmg & what it converts into, and realized this is not a progestin, but an actual steroid, I became more interested in it.

I think the combonation of max lmg & dimethazine were a great idea.

I'd also like to give epistane & max lmg a try later down the road.

Since you suggest using it with something that aromatizes, what is your opinion on D-zine + M1,4ADD? Does this sound like a good stack? Yes both methylated, but m1,4 isn't very harsh on the liver, and it would be run with reasonable doses (30/90-120)

I have a bottle of D-zine I plan to run in march. I ended up choosing it over Epi because the gains would be better, and I didn't want to go all the way to SD. Seeing this thread and all the loggers who disappear isn't encouraging though, I don't want to end up not responding well to D-zine. Makes me still consider an epi/m1,4 stack.

 

[jbryand101b]

mark and mitch are both incorrect. im not going to repost the same crap about dimethazine again.

but it's different than sd completely, it's weaker, more androgenic, and more hepatotoxic than sd.

 

[jbryand101b]

Since you suggest using it with something that aromatizes, what is your opinion on D-zine + M1,4ADD? Does this sound like a good stack? Yes both methylated, but m1,4 isn't very harsh on the liver, and it would be run with reasonable doses (30/90-120)

I have a bottle of D-zine I plan to run in march. I ended up choosing it over Epi because the gains would be better, and I didn't want to go all the way to SD. Seeing this thread and all the loggers who disappear isn't encouraging though, I don't want to end up not responding well to D-zine. Makes me still consider an epi/m1,4 stack.

i'd say go with either sd/m14add, or epi/m14add.

 

[mich29]

mark and mitch are both incorrect. im not going to repost the same crap about dimethazine again.

but it's different than sd completely, it's weaker, more androgenic, and more hepatotoxic than sd.

I think this is a fair statement

 

[mich29]

here are a few vt quotes.food for thought.

Dymethazine is 2 sd molecules bound by an azine bond. Upon ingestion, this bond is broken releasing 1 methylmasteron molecule, and one methylmasteron-hydrazone molecule. The methylmasteron-hydrazone reactions extremely differently than just methylmasteron as can be seen by MANY logs.

intrinsic activity in order to explain what happens in Dymethazine users? As far as I know, The methyl-masteron hydrazone molecule has its own intrinsic activity which is weaker, yet more manageable on the body than plain methylmasteron. The a;a ratio is also less impressive than SD on its own.

 

[mark118]

mark and mitch are both incorrect. im not going to repost the same crap about dimethazine again.

but it's different than sd completely, it's weaker, more androgenic, and more hepatotoxic than sd.

my description of how the dymethazine compound splits was directly from a iforce dymethazine promo/reps

VT: ''Dymethazine is 2 sd molecules bound by an azine bond. Upon ingestion, this bond is broken releasing 1 methylmasteron molecule, and one methylmasteron-hydrazone molecule.''


im not sure how im incorrect here. just posting and inferring directly from the iforce reps. how is it different completely when 1 of the 2 molecules = superdrol.

 

[jbryand101b]

because no one knows what steroid is formed when it hits the stomach acid and hydrolizes.

but doesn't become one sd molecule and one unknown steroid, both molecules will become hydrolized and become something else. this is why is is completely different. the nitrogen (azine) bond isn't attached to just one molecule, but both.

otherwise, you'd have sd like gains. but you dont. even injected, it is weaker than sd.

the write ups from i-force comes from people who are mis informed. I've talked about this compound with pa & henry in the past, and you can find their post with the info on the compounds.

the vida data is from injected dimethazine, so it doesn't help much. aside from anecdotal data, thats pretty much all we have to go off of.

but all experts i've talked to agree, what it becomes in the stomach, no one knows. but it doesn't leave any in tact methyldrostanolone (sd)

 

[mark118]

because no one knows what steroid is formed when it hits the stomach acid and hydrolizes.

but doesn't become one sd molecule and one unknown steroid, both molecules will become hydrolized and become something else. this is why is is completely different. the nitrogen (azine) bond isn't attached to just one molecule, but both.

otherwise, you'd have sd like gains. but you dont. even injected, it is weaker than sd.

the write ups from i-force comes from people who are mis informed. I've talked about this compound with pa & henry in the past, and you can find their post with the info on the compounds.

the vida data is from injected dimethazine, so it doesn't help much. aside from anecdotal data, thats pretty much all we have to go off of.

but all experts i've talked to agree, what it becomes in the stomach, no one knows. but it doesn't leave any in tact methyldrostanolone (sd)

thanks for the info

i assumed their write up would be correct, especially given how many educated people there are but hey, its their reputation. it still sells despite this