PH -A LEAGUE TABLE ?

[corsaking]

can anyone come up with a league table of non methylated ph listing those with the most impact interms of gains first

similarly methylated but not just in terms of gains but on stress on the liver. Although some ph are methylated, they dont all but the liver under the same amount of stress eg cynostane , from what ive read is mild on the liver , yet methylated.

 

[Aaelael]

Here are some helpful tools for you and your quest. . .

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/64820-designer-steroid-prohormone.html

http://tunedsports.com/tag/prohormone/

 

[Presa]

It's a good idea but I doubt you can get a consensus since everyone is effected differently by different compounds. There are already some good tables and books out there ( Roberts and llewellyn) but you will find that people both agree and disagree with the findings.

 

[corsaking]

thanks to all for replies and useful links

 

[Whacked]

Solid Thread.

I know many on here take the methyl-gear-based liver toxicity talk as over-hyped.

While this MAY be true, I think people lose sight of the fact that there is a cummulative issue at play here as well. Sure, one properly applied methylated cycle isnt going to do severe damage but how about those that run one or even two of these per year? Bet your behind that 5-10 years from now there will some liver cysts or scarring or poor liver values (when OFF).

Many on here refuse to mess with needles and for that rerason alone, it seems likely that more orals (some times methylated gear) becomes the staple. With this comes the sentiment about the validity and relevance for liver toxicitiy concerns amongst other things.

 

[on the run]

Solid Thread.

I know many on here take the methyl-gear-based liver toxicity talk as over-hyped.

While this MAY be true, I think people lose sight of the fact that there is a cummulative issue at play here as well. Sure, one properly applied methylated cycle isnt going to do severe damage but how about those that run one or even two of these per year? Bet your behind that 5-10 years from now there will some liver cysts or scarring or poor liver values (when OFF).

Many on here refuse to mess with needles and for that rerason alone, it seems likely that more orals (some times methylated gear) becomes the staple. With this comes the sentiment about the validity and relevance for liver toxicitiy concerns amongst other things.

is there any real solid evidence comparing the liver toxicity of something like superdrol to say, alcohol? does anyone really know? it seems the closest we've got to 'evidence' is bloodwork from people who may or may not be extra susceptible to it (or maybe extra immune, who knows).

i've heard people quoting 10mg of superdrol is comparable to anywhere from 1 shot to 10 shots of vodka.. i think overestimating the damage is always better then undestimating it, last thing you want to do is have a bunch of tards start drinking on cycle because they think superdrol isn't that bad, i'm just interested in seeing some solid evidence.

i know plenty of guys who've been having 3-4 beers a day for years and have never had liver troubles

 

[corsaking]

Solid Thread.

I know many on here take the methyl-gear-based liver toxicity talk as over-hyped.

While this MAY be true, I think people lose sight of the fact that there is a cummulative issue at play here as well. Sure, one properly applied methylated cycle isnt going to do severe damage but how about those that run one or even two of these per year? Bet your behind that 5-10 years from now there will some liver cysts or scarring or poor liver values (when OFF).

Many on here refuse to mess with needles and for that rerason alone, it seems likely that more orals (some times methylated gear) becomes the staple. With this comes the sentiment about the validity and relevance for liver toxicitiy concerns amongst other things.

i go along with your post, There are some on here that give the impression that a designer steroid is almost a must in their arsenal of supplements and carnt wait for the "off period "to go by, before starting the next.

Bodybuilding , looking good , call it what you like, is purely cosmetic and when we talk about bodybuilders at professional level , i think its safe to say they rely on an arsenal of drugs to acheive their look .Now some who take the odd run of a ph or ds are a long way from that, but its worth remembering that health is long term and you want good health whatever age you are.

Seeing a post on AM when things go wrong is not uncommon , whether those people ever manage to get things back to normal , we never seem to hear the outcome , but just by the law of averages, there must be some who regret taking a ds/ph and never will again .

 

[soontobbeast]

is there any real solid evidence comparing the liver toxicity of something like superdrol to say, alcohol? does anyone really know? it seems the closest we've got to 'evidence' is bloodwork from people who may or may not be extra susceptible to it (or maybe extra immune, who knows).

i've heard people quoting 10mg of superdrol is comparable to anywhere from 1 shot to 10 shots of vodka.. i think overestimating the damage is always better then undestimating it, last thing you want to do is have a bunch of tards start drinking on cycle because they think superdrol isn't that bad, i'm just interested in seeing some solid evidence.

i know plenty of guys who've been having 3-4 beers a day for years and have never had liver troubles

well there ya go.

the people that are concerned about their health get bloodwork done.

the ones that aren't, don't.

seems pretty straightforward for who is going to get what.

i also think it is inaccurate for one to say '' DEFINITELY you WILL have liver cysts or abnormal liver values'' 5-10 yrs down to the road because you took methylated steroids.''

if you are getting regular pre ( during may be applicable for longer cycles) and post cycle bloodwork, and acting with regard to the results, i don't understand how one day down the road your liver can go from having in-range values to being scarred and/or damaged.

btw to the OP, don't expect people to do your research for you.

 

[corsaking]

well there ya go.

the people that are concerned about their health get bloodwork done.

the ones that aren't, don't.

seems pretty straightforward for who is going to get what.

i also think it is inaccurate for one to say '' DEFINITELY you WILL have liver cysts or abnormal liver values'' 5-10 yrs down to the road because you took methylated steroids.''

if you are getting regular pre ( during may be applicable for longer cycles) and post cycle bloodwork, and acting with regard to the results, i don't understand how one day down the road your liver can go from having in-range values to being scarred and/or damaged.

btw to the OP, don't expect people to do your research for you.[/QUOTE]

how i hate these people who sit behind a computer in the comfort of their own home and tell people what they should and shouldnt do -face to face i wonder?

 

[Whacked]

Well said

i go along with your post, There are some on here that give the impression that a designer steroid is almost a must in their arsenal of supplements and carnt wait for the "off period "to go by, before starting the next.

Bodybuilding , looking good , call it what you like, is purely cosmetic and when we talk about bodybuilders at professional level , i think its safe to say they rely on an arsenal of drugs to acheive their look .Now some who take the odd run of a ph or ds are a long way from that, but its worth remembering that health is long term and you want good health whatever age you are.

Seeing a post on AM when things go wrong is not uncommon , whether those people ever manage to get things back to normal , we never seem to hear the outcome , but just by the law of averages, there must be some who regret taking a ds/ph and never will again .

 

[on the run]

well there ya go.

the people that are concerned about their health get bloodwork done.

the ones that aren't, don't.

seems pretty straightforward for who is going to get what.

i also think it is inaccurate for one to say '' DEFINITELY you WILL have liver cysts or abnormal liver values'' 5-10 yrs down to the road because you took methylated steroids.''

if you are getting regular pre ( during may be applicable for longer cycles) and post cycle bloodwork, and acting with regard to the results, i don't understand how one day down the road your liver can go from having in-range values to being scarred and/or damaged.

btw to the OP, don't expect people to do your research for you.

ok but the fact is, even with blood work you wont know until AFTER you've done the cycle, and by then it's too late if significant damage has occured.

it would be great to know the *actual* toxicity, so then you can make an informed judgement *before* you run it about whether it's worth the risk or not..

 

[soontobbeast]

ok but the fact is, even with blood work you wont know until AFTER you've done the cycle, and by then it's too late if significant damage has occured.

it would be great to know the *actual* toxicity, so then you can make an informed judgement *before* you run it about whether it's worth the risk or not..

oh, i didn't know you weren't able to get bloodwork during a cycle.

must be a new law ( JK). i will be running an epi pulse between 6-8 weeks. around week 4-5 im going to get bloodwork to check everything out to see if i will go till week 8. also at normal dosing, it would be mighty rare to have actual damage done to the liver on a regular 4 week cycle. this is of course in healthy individuals to begin with that have gotten bloodwork to verify it.

and i do agree it would be great to never have to gauge effects yourself, but you do. theres no such thing as an '' actual'' toxicity. some people smoke for 70 years and don't get cancer ( my grandma), some people smoke for 20, and do. some get gyno from the same steroid someone else didn't.

 

[schwellington]

the liver is a regenerating organ- as long as damage isnt too severe- your liver will repair itself- hence time off between cycles


people who drink alcoholicly for 20 years have okay livers once they sober up

4-8 weeks of methylated steroids is not going to kill you- or your liver