Forma-Stanzol how is it in comparison to other drugs Aromasin, Nolva, or Clomid
- 09-18-2010, 06:07 PM
GOD, FAMILY, COUNTRY!!!
- 09-18-2010, 06:14 PM
I think inhibiting estrogen from coming up right when you enter PCT will hinder homeostasis recovery of testosterone.
I'll put it to the test anyways. Not many people can actually comment on this from experience but in theory, 2 weeks into PCT and you add forma will do straight up wonderzzzz.
09-18-2010, 06:20 PM
09-18-2010, 06:34 PM
Bigt, it's really hard to find studies on these things as I'm sure you know. Sometimes it's the knowledge that has been passed down that is more valuable over reading some studies about hormone reactions and trying to connect the dots between these studies and steroid use and PCT and everything. So I'm glad you're like me in that we are both real world result believers.
There are many knowledgeable and reputable guys that say the rise in estrogen will help yield a rise in testosterone in the first few weeks of PCT.
So you're exactly right on the protocol. SERM for 2-3 weeks, followed by forma to chop down those high levels and give you a boost in PCT.
I will definitely let you know how it goes for me. I'm 100% decided to do this in my next PCT.
09-18-2010, 06:39 PM
09-18-2010, 06:42 PM
09-18-2010, 07:22 PM
The method you've suggested would essentially allow estrogen to run amuck without the testosterone needed to level out your body to its normal ratio.... Results? Dramatic decrease in strength and mass gains made on cycle, delayed estrogen reduction possibly making sides appear, emotional roller coaster from to much estrogen in a testosterone driven body..... Essentially I would totally ditch that idea and start your pct right away or even a week before you finish to have the chemicals flowing already and test boosting via estrogen suppression working for you right away.
09-18-2010, 07:27 PM
I agree estrogen can cause an increase in testosterone, there is proof to this effect, but im not really sure why you would choose that option during pct? As the sharpe rise in estrogen can bring problems of its own, also your suggestion is not a new idea, adding an a.i after a couple of weeks is an old practice that had been discarded in favour of safer options, but if you want to see the results for yourself then that is your perogative.
Gause institute member
Need2slin designer.Product designer/ N2BM admin.
09-18-2010, 07:39 PM
2 weeks with a SERM isn't gonna hurt anything bro. Let that estrogen run a muck.. the SERM will cover me for 2 weeks and let my body just respond naturally in PCT (since the SERM won't directly affect my hormones). After all, your body does whatever it can to reach homeostasis so I say let it do it's own thing for a couple weeks. Just use a SERM to block estro sides and once you're ready--chop down those high estrogen levels.
PS... when you say the body recognizes a drop in estrogen and responds by making more test, not always the case bro. It sometimes just makes more aromatizing enzyme in which case you're screwed and get nothing from the drop in estrogen.
There are many ways the body has to do one job. There is nothing set in stone really for hormone ratios relationships.
09-18-2010, 07:42 PM
09-18-2010, 07:44 PM
I will be using forma the last half of my cycle for tren sides, taking 2 weeks off while front loading clomid, and adding in forma, tcf 1 and a pre workout
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09-18-2010, 07:46 PM
09-18-2010, 07:48 PM
09-18-2010, 07:55 PM
What's up russian! Long time no see my man....been on hiatus for a bit but back and ready to make a comeback.
09-18-2010, 09:04 PM
I'd like to see a resolution to this debate as I'm considing an anadrol/test e/tren 12-14wk cycle for the winter with forma-stan as my on-cycle estrogen control and not sure how to bridge it into a pct of clomid/nolva, testforce and activate extreme
09-18-2010, 09:05 PM
Of course a serm will protect you, as you now stated and estrogen won't run amuck.... At the same time I don't see how your theory would necessarily work. If your blocking the est from reaching the receptors in the first place, theres no chance for the feed back in the presence of estrogen as your claiming if the body isnt even using it/tell its there.... Instead the feedback loop I mentioned would run its course and since your body obviously can tell that test islow at thee start of pct OF COURSE its going to boost TEST PRODUCTION much more so then aromatase especially with the chemical help from an htpa restoring SERM.
Btw I hope you realize they RESET the rep points sometimes as often as within a year. Look at my join date and my post count, wtf you think I was asking over 8000 questions across the last 5 years? Think I wasn't reading, cycling, and holding intimate conversations through pms with some of the most well regarded chemists on the boards to date and don't have a clue about what I might be speaking about?
Sorry not being a d!ck or anything but first thing you do is sound like a smug a$$hole and try to dismiss my post cause of my rep bar sounding all sorts of immature throwing a "p.s." in there. Grow up.
09-18-2010, 10:20 PM
09-19-2010, 12:45 AM
And Russian said estrogen increase increases testosterone. Like I've been saying. So I don't know why you still need proof?
So the body must still sense some Estrogen in other receptors, and with it being a large amount, I think it would know. If it was a lot of estrogen throughout the day just circulating the blood the body will sense it. Thus.. using the effect of increase in estrogen leading to increase in testosterone like I've been saying. A pathway for this to work even while using a SERM.
With second part bolded I agree. It works this way too. No androgen receptors are being filled so testosterone is spiked up to fill them by LH secretion. I believe this to be true. I think there are pathways for this to work too. I'm not arguing anything against this point here. This does work. You're the one telling me mine doesn't work so stick to that and tell me why.
Rep power lol... c'mon man. What am I an idiot? I don't see your posts or join date? I know you've been around. I see that. But doesn't mean I have to treat you any better than someone with 1 post. You are equal to me as everyone else on here. It's the quality of posts that I will show my respect to, not the quantity of your rep power.
09-19-2010, 01:33 AM
I am running a SERM for 4 weeks. With Forma-stanzol starting at the 2 or 3 week mark as my next PCT. That's sounds solid to me and I don't see no reason not to, and see reasons to do so. That's all.
Add a test booster like HCGenerate in week 4 also and we are golden.
Nolva or Clomid weeks 1-4
Forma-stanzol weeks 2 or 3 TO 6 or 7 (will decide when the time comes)
HCGenerate weeks 4-8
I'm a man on a mission at this point.
09-19-2010, 02:37 AM
If you look more closely at what russian says it IS possible to raise test via that pathway and feedback loop BUT that method isn't really the wisest to be used during pct (reasons why I stated in my first post) since you'll have steep spike in est and because of that fact your method has long been discarded.
Why wait to start DIRECTLY test boosting via chemical or organic supplementation instead of going an INDIRECT route??? I'm just confused at this method since its long been outdated with much more advances using more direct feedback loops and direct methods of supplementation at the time of ceasing exogenous androgen supplementation creating a much more dramatic need for more testosterone by showing the body its low on both hormones (test AND est) and will need more testosterone to both fill in the hole for the direct need of testosterone and estrogen as well via conversion.... Block that aromatase and then your body works even harder at getting more test produced the same as it does for even men with normal physiological levels of testosterone.... Just makes much more sense.
I was purely stating you were trying to dismiss my post based on "reputation" before you even began to debate your view. I didn't "come at you" I was stating what I said in my first post based on the assumption you weren't using a serm even and were purely allowing estrogen to go free in order to raise test, which in fact is what happens naturally if you just stop a cycle without running a pct, BUT is definitely backwards from what is practiced now, a much better route of boosting test then what your body alone can do, is blocking est to raise test. This is definitely most easily achieved using a serm, test boosters and ai's right off the bat.
I'm sorry we have conflicting views but its no reason for you to dismiss me based on reputation alone, one which I have will established here for long before you were even a member and sorry I haven't been an active poster for the last 1.5 years for you to see..... I've already seen plenty of your posts since I've been lurking and then posting once again and you seem to know your stuff, this is just something I would have to definitely disagree with in lieu of more modern and effective pct regimens out now....
Good luck on your pct regardless.
09-19-2010, 02:49 AM
I got you. I see where we differ. I would never use an AI off the bat in PCT and you think it's ok.
I just think two weeks of an estrogen spike would do more good than harm if and only if a SERM is used (that is the crucial part--only if the SERM is used). At the 2 week mark I feel like you've reaped the benefits of the estrogen spike in terms of testosterone and then would be ready to start hacking away estrogen levels with the forma-stanzol or AI. Whether or not the SERM hinders the benefit of the estrogen spike is unknown to be honest. You can't say for sure but I do believe there is a window of opportunity for this thanks to Nolva being selective to the breast tissue mostly.
2 week difference between us is all
And welcome back poopypants. You're already adding some life to this place. Don't get good discussions like this going on very often.
09-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Great to see my old mate back here poops.
Ok bro, all i am concerned with is that the estrogen will run wild for 2 weeks, you said your using nolva, that is the best choice for what your planning. You could also add in a topical 7,8 benzo just to the breast area, its A.I properties are site specific, it has other usefull qualities as we know.
Be carefull, i remember this being done by somone who had run test and tren, they had no probs during the cycle, but during pct following a method similar to yours, they encountered gyno and lost libido, took months to recover properly. Some estrogen is vital to full recovery, too little and you hamper your recovery, and the same goes for too much. I cant be bothered getting to scientific as i know you and the other members here know exactly what im talking about.
All the best with what your planning.
Gause institute member
Need2slin designer.Product designer/ N2BM admin.
09-19-2010, 10:35 AM
GREAT STUFF HERE-
welcome back poop!
always good to hear from russian!
GOD, FAMILY, COUNTRY!!!
09-19-2010, 09:15 PM
09-19-2010, 09:17 PM
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