Forma-Stanzol how is it in comparison to other drugs Aromasin, Nolva, or Clomid

[needtogetmuscle]

well formastan its self has nothing in common at all with nolva or clomid but forma-stanzol does. Nolva and clomid are serms and they block estrogen at the ER thus stopping it from having any effects on the ER. Well they do not block estrogen, but rather they take up the spot in the ER that estrogen would normally take up so that estrogen cant get in and do its job.

However when on nolvadex or clomid the level of estrogen in your body does not go down but rather it goes up!!!!. You see, Nolvadex only blocks estrogen that's already in your body but it does not in anyway effect test from converting to estrogen. In fact by stopping the estrogen from entering the ER it causes your body to create both more testosterone AND ESTROGEN :biggrin::biggrin: let no one ever forget this. Your bodies level of estrogen goes up well taking nolvadex or clomid not down and anyone who has read a study or two and has been around a wile knows this. This is why it is very very very common for nolvadex and or clomid to cause what is known as "rebound gyno" if you use these product for pct with out a Ai or even better a "suicide aromatase inhibitor" (which is what forma-stanzol is)

Now as you can see formastane its self and nolvadex/clomid are worlds apart. From here on throughout my explanation I will be speaking only about forma-stanzol as I feel it is the far superior compound because it has both formastane (suicide aromatase inhibition as well as progesterone reducing effects) and phytoserms (Phytoserm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) effects. On top of this it also has many other necessary effects for any prospective steroids user.

One Forma-stanzol's many characteristics is whats know as a "suicide aromatase inhibitor" of aromatase. This means that Forma-stanzol binds to the aromatase enzyme in a permanent and irreversible manner, rendering it inactive. The result of this is an eventual diminishment of aromatase enzyme in the body and a concurrent reduction in estrogen levels. A corresponding increase in testosterone production is usually experienced as well

It is important to note here that this deactivation of aromatase enzymes by forma-stanzol does not mean that your body becomes permanently deficient in the ability to synthesize estrogen. Your body will react to the deficiency of enzyme by producing more enzyme to replace that which has been deactivated. Therefore, when you stop taking Forma-stanzol your aromatase enzyme level will quickly catch up to normal and full estrogen production will resume.

Now Another important attribute to forma-stanzol is of course its phytoserm effects. Serm/phytoserm effects are important for pct because of there binding to the estrogen receptors, thus inhibiting estrogenic activity only at the ER. This causes a increase to LH & FSH levels, which in turn stimulates testosterone production. The important thing to remember here is although both nolvadex and clomid will do this they do it at a price! not only does the level of estrogen keep going up well taking them (unlike with forma-stanzol) but they can also be harmful in many other ways ( read post 6 in this thread to learn more about this. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/taking-anabolic-steroids-101-a-642856.html). This is why phytoserm's "medically and clinically" excepted natural serms are better. Combined with other compounds like the ones in forma-stanzol they are a much more effect form of pct or on cycle estrogen and progesterone control.

Furthermore forma-stanzols 7,8 Benzoflavone a neuro-active flavone has the ability to pass the blood brain barrier and block the suppression of GnRH release through modulation of the GABAergic receptor complex.7,8 Benzoflavone also has a positive effects on libido due to its aphrodisiac and anxiolytic (anxiety-relieving) effect having natural anti-anxiety properties, 7,8-benzoflavone my help improve general self-confidence and well being. But Forma-stansols posative effects on libido dosn't end there. As any well versed steroid user knows lowering progesterone can also have a very positive and profound effects on sex drive.

Forma-stanzol unlike any other Ai or serm also has anabolic effects and coverts to a anabolic at a "dose dependent rate". In other words when used at the higher end of dosing ( 10 pumps twice a day) after a week it starts to covert somewhat to a anabolic compound and adds gains to your cycle. Still when used at the lower end or pct stile dosing protocol ( 5 pumps twice a day) there is no worries about suppression because its anabolic conversion is again " dose dependent" and only happens at higher doses taken for longer periods of time. How Amazing is that? I dont know any Ai's out there that can clam this nor do I know one single Ai that also lowers progesterone too!

Because of the formatane and now added compounds in forma-stanzol Its anabolic/androgen effects are similar to that of the steroid primobolan Depot ( but only when used at higher doses for longer periods of time).even at the lower dosing It increases IGF-1 levels by an amazing 26%,and increases HPTA activity and testicular activity similar to a combination of hcg and Clomid!

All of this is backed up by " human" studies. Yes Real human studies don by well known Universities and agencies. Because for the longest time Lentaron I.M. Depot® was a proscription drug . This was not a drug that got scrapped because it did not work or because other drugs worked better. No this drug lost favor because many years ago the only way to use the drug was through injections. But because of the advancements in Trans dermal delivery Lentaron I.M. Depot® is back. With the help of NTBM and MRsupps.com its more powerful then ever.

forma-stanzol is a synergistic blend of supporting components making forma-stanzol a Highbred on cycle estrogen/progesterone control and pct drug.

 

[indysoccer16]

Big thumbs up to NTBM for another great product. I am going to run it as my pct this time around!

 

[gamer2be08]

Bump for an amazing product

 

[ambulldog]

this is in my future for sure. my favorite otc supp of all time based on how i felt and gains was formex by ibe. so i will look forward to this after my test/deca in a few months.

 

[gamer2be08]

this is in my future for sure. my favorite otc supp of all time based on how i felt and gains was formex by ibe. so i will look forward to this after my test/deca in a few months.

You can take it while on test/deca to free up test and keep gyno at bay

 

[andrew732]

^^^ YUP, I find it to be ideal during a cycle since it can lead to a boost in IGF levels.

 

[gamer2be08]

^^^ YUP, I find it to be ideal during a cycle since it can lead to a boost in IGF levels.

Or PCT to keep gains ..

 

[thebigt]

formestane has been a favorite of mine for several years now-i look forward to trying your product with the extra goodies thrown in-not to mention the dmso added to the carrier. formestane is a great compound on it's own, the other stuff looks like a real nice gravy topping.

 

[gamer2be08]

formestane has been a favorite of mine for several years now-i look forward to trying your product with the extra goodies thrown in-not to mention the dmso added to the carrier. formestane is a great compound on it's own, the other stuff looks like a real nice gravy topping.

Like form and sustain combined

 

[ambulldog]

i ordered 3 today and begged for a free one in the give away. ill need it. im gonna run it at 250mg/day along with 600mg/week test. oh yeah baby

 

[thebigt]

i ordered 3 today and begged for a free one in the give away. ill need it. im gonna run it at 250mg/day along with 600mg/week test. oh yeah baby

i really don't see the need to go over 200mg of forma-it's not like the little bit of anabolic would be felt running it with the test. 200mg is more than adequate, imo.


now-if you were running it solo, i could see it.

 

[ambulldog]

i really don't see the need to go over 200mg of forma-it's not like the little bit of anabolic would be felt running it with the test. 200mg is more than adequate, imo.


now-if you were running it solo, i could see it.

im getting this idea from someone on here i trust very very much. ill ramp up slowly so if i dont feel any difference from 200-250 then obviously id drop back off. but the plan is 250

 

[thebigt]

im getting this idea from someone on here i trust very very much. ill ramp up slowly so if i dont feel any difference from 200-250 then obviously id drop back off. but the plan is 250

good luck-hope all goes well for you!!!

 

[ambulldog]

good luck-hope all goes well for you!!!

me too!!!

 

[RommelS]

I have my Deiselbolan, Formastanzol, and Nolva on hand. I also plan on running HCGenerate. Should I be running the Forma during my cycle or save it for post cycle?

Sorry for posting my question here. Just looking for a clear answer since I haven't found one searching everywhere.

 

[BarbellBeast]

Can't wait to run this. Think it would be perfect for my pct.

 

[gamer2be08]

I have my Deiselbolan, Formastanzol, and Nolva on hand. I also plan on running HCGenerate. Should I be running the Forma during my cycle or save it for post cycle?

Sorry for posting my question here. Just looking for a clear answer since I haven't found one searching everywhere.

Either would be nice, but I would do PCT

 

[RommelS]

Either would be nice, but I would do PCT

Thanks Gamer. So I will be running the HCGenerate during cycle and Forma in PCT. I have just read somewhere it is recommended to low dose Forma during cycle to prevent sides at 3 pumps twice daily. Or should I just save it for PCT at 5 pumps, twice daily?

 

[gamer2be08]

Thanks Gamer. So I will be running the HCGenerate during cycle and Forma in PCT. I have just read somewhere it is recommended to low dose Forma during cycle to prevent sides at 3 pumps twice daily. Or should I just save it for PCT at 5 pumps, twice daily?

Save for PCT

 

[RommelS]

Save for PCT

Thanks again for the quick response :thumbsup:

 

[andrew732]

Some people like to take HCGenerate during the last week of their cycle to jumpstart pct.

 

[chocolatemilk]

MAN I cannot believe this thread slipped by me. There has been some big discussions about forma in the anabolics section and using it in PCT.

Needto... since testosterone goes up with estrogen in PCT, would it be ok to use a SERM for let's say two weeks, let estrogen come up and in turn testosterone come up with it, and THEN add the forma 2 weeks in to start chopping down high estrogen levels after you've reaped the benefit they provide in regards to the bump in testosterone?

Or use it off the bat in PCT?

What do you think?

 

[gamer2be08]

MAN I cannot believe this thread slipped by me. There has been some big discussions about forma in the anabolics section and using it in PCT.

Needto... since testosterone goes up with estrogen in PCT, would it be ok to use a SERM for let's say two weeks, let estrogen come up and in turn testosterone come up with it, and THEN add the forma 2 weeks in to start chopping down high estrogen levels after you've reaped the benefit they provide in regards to the bump in testosterone?

Or use it off the bat in PCT?

What do you think?

My friend, estrogen and prolactin are suppressive in nature.

 

[gamer2be08]

MAN I cannot believe this thread slipped by me. There has been some big discussions about forma in the anabolics section and using it in PCT.

Needto... since testosterone goes up with estrogen in PCT, would it be ok to use a SERM for let's say two weeks, let estrogen come up and in turn testosterone come up with it, and THEN add the forma 2 weeks in to start chopping down high estrogen levels after you've reaped the benefit they provide in regards to the bump in testosterone?

Or use it off the bat in PCT?

What do you think?

Also, when dosed 200mg ED, form is androgenic and mildly anabolic, meaning it is real helpful at keeping gains.

 

[chocolatemilk]

My friend, estrogen and prolactin are suppressive in nature.

I'm talking about the initial shooting up of estrogen in the beginning stage of PCT. This helps bring test up too. So would we want to keep a SERM only to reap this benefit, THEN maybe 2 weeks in add the forma to chop the estro down? That sound very good to me. I'm definitely trying this out for my PCT next cycle. This sounds killer...

 

[thebigt]

I'm talking about the initial shooting up of estrogen in the beginning stage of PCT. This helps bring test up too. So would we want to keep a SERM only to reap this benefit, THEN maybe 2 weeks in add the forma to chop the estro down? That sound very good to me. I'm definitely trying this out for my PCT next cycle. This sounds killer...

i disagree, the whole idea behind using an ai is that by lowering estrogen it tricks the body into making more test. based on this theory elevated estrogen will not automatically result in elevated test. imo, elevated estrogen will in fact have the opposite effect.

 

[chocolatemilk]

i disagree, the whole idea behind using an ai is that by lowering estrogen it tricks the body into making more test. based on this theory elevated estrogen will not automatically result in elevated test. imo, elevated estrogen will in fact have the opposite effect.

No I'm strictly talking about the spike in estrogen once starting PCT. GM has said it on here and many others that this results in an increase in test also. So I say use the forma 2 weeks into PCT while you've reaped the benefit of the spike and are ready to chop down estrogen.

I think inhibiting estrogen from coming up right when you enter PCT will hinder homeostasis recovery of testosterone.

I'll put it to the test anyways. Not many people can actually comment on this from experience but in theory, 2 weeks into PCT and you add forma will do straight up wonderzzzz.

 

[thebigt]

No I'm strictly talking about the spike in estrogen once starting PCT. GM has said it on here and many others that this results in an increase in test also. So I say use the forma 2 weeks into PCT while you've reaped the benefit of the spike and are ready to chop down estrogen.

I think inhibiting estrogen from coming up right when you enter PCT will hinder homeostasis recovery of testosterone.

I'll put it to the test anyways. Not many people can actually comment on this from experience but in theory, 2 weeks into PCT and you add forma will do straight up wonderzzzz.

i am a big believer in real world results over studies and theories, so i look forward to your results.

just so we are on the same page-1st day pct through 14th day, you use a serm. then on day 15 of pct you add in formestane, right???

 

[chocolatemilk]

i am a big believer in real world results over studies and theories, so i look forward to your results.

just so we are on the same page-1st day pct through 14th day, you use a serm. then on day 15 of pct you add in formestane, right???

Exactly my brotha.

Bigt, it's really hard to find studies on these things as I'm sure you know. Sometimes it's the knowledge that has been passed down that is more valuable over reading some studies about hormone reactions and trying to connect the dots between these studies and steroid use and PCT and everything. So I'm glad you're like me in that we are both real world result believers.

There are many knowledgeable and reputable guys that say the rise in estrogen will help yield a rise in testosterone in the first few weeks of PCT.

So you're exactly right on the protocol. SERM for 2-3 weeks, followed by forma to chop down those high levels and give you a boost in PCT.

I will definitely let you know how it goes for me. I'm 100% decided to do this in my next PCT.

 

[JoHNnyNuTZ]

WOW!!! I missed this one too. Prolly gonna have to get this my my PCT now too!!

 

[thebigt]

Exactly my brotha.

Bigt, it's really hard to find studies on these things as I'm sure you know. Sometimes it's the knowledge that has been passed down that is more valuable over reading some studies about hormone reactions and trying to connect the dots between these studies and steroid use and PCT and everything. So I'm glad you're like me in that we are both real world result believers.

There are many knowledgeable and reputable guys that say the rise in estrogen will help yield a rise in testosterone in the first few weeks of PCT.

So you're exactly right on the protocol. SERM for 2-3 weeks, followed by forma to chop down those high levels and give you a boost in PCT.

I will definitely let you know how it goes for me. I'm 100% decided to do this in my next PCT.

good for you- i have been arguing real world results over studies forever it seems. i really am interested in how this works out for you.

 

[poopypants]

I'm talking about the initial shooting up of estrogen in the beginning stage of PCT. This helps bring test up too. So would we want to keep a SERM only to reap this benefit, THEN maybe 2 weeks in add the forma to chop the estro down? That sound very good to me. I'm definitely trying this out for my PCT next cycle. This sounds killer...

You've got it completely backwards man. You drop estrogen to non existent levels.... In turn your body says hey I need more estrogen and since in the male body estrogen is produced by converting testosterone into estrogen via the aromatase enzyme you'll def want to block it off the bat.... So continue blocking estrogen as well as aromatase and in turn your body will continue to boost testosterone.....

The method you've suggested would essentially allow estrogen to run amuck without the testosterone needed to level out your body to its normal ratio.... Results? Dramatic decrease in strength and mass gains made on cycle, delayed estrogen reduction possibly making sides appear, emotional roller coaster from to much estrogen in a testosterone driven body..... Essentially I would totally ditch that idea and start your pct right away or even a week before you finish to have the chemicals flowing already and test boosting via estrogen suppression working for you right away.

 

[russianstar]

I agree estrogen can cause an increase in testosterone, there is proof to this effect, but im not really sure why you would choose that option during pct? As the sharpe rise in estrogen can bring problems of its own, also your suggestion is not a new idea, adding an a.i after a couple of weeks is an old practice that had been discarded in favour of safer options, but if you want to see the results for yourself then that is your perogative.

 

[chocolatemilk]

You've got it completely backwards man. You drop estrogen to non existent levels.... In turn your body says hey I need more estrogen and since in the male body estrogen is produced by converting testosterone into estrogen via the aromatase enzyme.... So continue blocking estrogen as well as aromatase and in turn your body will continue to boost testosterone.....

The method you've suggested would essentially allow estrogen to run amuck without the testosterone needed to level out your body to its normal ratio.... Results? Dramatic decrease in strength and mass gains made on cycle, delayed estrogen reduction possibly making sides appear, emotional roller coaster from to much estrogen in a testosterone driven body..... Essentially I would totally ditch that idea and start your pct right away or even a week before you finish to have the chemicals flowing already and test boosting via estrogen suppression working for you right away.

Hmmmm.... No. I value the opinion of reputable members and I have seen it in blood tests. High estrogen, and high test levels coincide in the beginning stage of PCT (I'm not saying this is always the case and this is the relationship of test and estro) but in PCT, it does happen. I see it all over the bloods, and I've heard it many times from reputable people.

2 weeks with a SERM isn't gonna hurt anything bro. Let that estrogen run a muck.. the SERM will cover me for 2 weeks and let my body just respond naturally in PCT (since the SERM won't directly affect my hormones). After all, your body does whatever it can to reach homeostasis so I say let it do it's own thing for a couple weeks. Just use a SERM to block estro sides and once you're ready--chop down those high estrogen levels.

PS... when you say the body recognizes a drop in estrogen and responds by making more test, not always the case bro. It sometimes just makes more aromatizing enzyme in which case you're screwed and get nothing from the drop in estrogen.

There are many ways the body has to do one job. There is nothing set in stone really for hormone ratios relationships.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I agree estrogen can cause an increase in testosterone, there is proof to this effect, but im not really sure why you would choose that option during pct? As the sharpe rise in estrogen can bring problems of its own, also your suggestion is not a new idea, adding an a.i after a couple of weeks is an old practice that had been discarded in favour of safer options, but if you want to see the results for yourself then that is your perogative.

It's two weeks Russian. I will let it happen for two weeks (only if I have a SERM) for the sake of the boost in test, Then I will add the AI.

Best of both worlds.

What's a safer option?

 

[SouthernCharm]

I will be using forma the last half of my cycle for tren sides, taking 2 weeks off while front loading clomid, and adding in forma, tcf 1 and a pre workout

 

[MrBigPR]

It's two weeks Russian. I will let it happen for two weeks (only if I have a SERM) for the sake of the boost in test, Then I will add the AI.

Best of both worlds.

What's a safer option?

clomid for 4-6 weeks, then test booster

 

[thebigt]

i knew this was going to cause debate!

 

[poopypants]

What's up russian! Long time no see my man....been on hiatus for a bit but back and ready to make a comeback.

I agree estrogen can cause an increase in testosterone, there is proof to this effect, but im not really sure why you would choose that option during pct? As the sharpe rise in estrogen can bring problems of its own, also your suggestion is not a new idea, adding an a.i after a couple of weeks is an old practice that had been discarded in favour of safer options, but if you want to see the results for yourself then that is your perogative.

I a more poplar method that takes advantage of both a serm and an ai in pct was to titrate the doses lowering the serm dose across 4 weeks while increasing the si dose in order to avoid the serms estrogen rebound and maintain a more level estrogen post pct since most otc ai's are suicide inhibitors it takes time for your body to raise the level of aromatase enzymes back to normal physiological levels

 

[jcalvert86]

I'd like to see a resolution to this debate as I'm considing an anadrol/test e/tren 12-14wk cycle for the winter with forma-stan as my on-cycle estrogen control and not sure how to bridge it into a pct of clomid/nolva, testforce and activate extreme

 

[poopypants]

Hmmmm.... No. I value the opinion of reputable members and I have seen it in blood tests. High estrogen, and high test levels coincide in the beginning stage of PCT (I'm not saying this is always the case and this is the relationship of test and estro) but in PCT, it does happen. I see it all over the bloods, and I've heard it many times from reputable people.

2 weeks with a SERM isn't gonna hurt anything bro. Let that estrogen run a muck.. the SERM will cover me for 2 weeks and let my body just respond naturally in PCT (since the SERM won't directly affect my hormones). After all, your body does whatever it can to reach homeostasis so I say let it do it's own thing for a couple weeks. Just use a SERM to block estro sides and once you're ready--chop down those high estrogen levels.

PS... when you say the body recognizes a drop in estrogen and responds by making more test, not always the case bro. It sometimes just makes more aromatizing enzyme in which case you're screwed and get nothing from the drop in estrogen.

There are many ways the body has to do one job. There is nothing set in stone really for hormone ratios relationships.

Ok partner go ahead and run your pct as you choose, but I'd love to see blood tests your taking about in conjunction to a pct boosting testosterone by allowing estrogen to rise....

Of course a serm will protect you, as you now stated and estrogen won't run amuck.... At the same time I don't see how your theory would necessarily work. If your blocking the est from reaching the receptors in the first place, theres no chance for the feed back in the presence of estrogen as your claiming if the body isnt even using it/tell its there.... Instead the feedback loop I mentioned would run its course and since your body obviously can tell that test islow at thee start of pct OF COURSE its going to boost TEST PRODUCTION much more so then aromatase especially with the chemical help from an htpa restoring SERM.

Btw I hope you realize they RESET the rep points sometimes as often as within a year. Look at my join date and my post count, wtf you think I was asking over 8000 questions across the last 5 years? Think I wasn't reading, cycling, and holding intimate conversations through pms with some of the most well regarded chemists on the boards to date and don't have a clue about what I might be speaking about?

Sorry not being a d!ck or anything but first thing you do is sound like a smug a$$hole and try to dismiss my post cause of my rep bar sounding all sorts of immature throwing a "p.s." in there. Grow up.

 

[thebigt]

What's up russian! Long time no see my man....been on hiatus for a bit but back and ready to make a comeback.

I a more poplar method that takes advantage of both a serm and an ai in pct was to titrate the doses lowering the serm dose across 4 weeks while increasing the si dose in order to avoid the serms estrogen rebound and maintain a more level estrogen post pct since most otc ai's are suicide inhibitors it takes time for your body to raise the level of aromatase enzymes back to normal physiological levels

this was the gold standard for pct when i joined here. lots of people, myself included have ran versions of this.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Ok partner go ahead and run your pct as you choose, but I'd love to see blood tests your taking about in conjunction to a pct boosting testosterone by allowing estrogen to rise....

I don't keep track of bloods in here. They come and go.

And Russian said estrogen increase increases testosterone. Like I've been saying. So I don't know why you still need proof?

Of course a serm will protect you, as you now stated and estrogen won't run amuck.... At the same time I don't see how your theory would necessarily work. If your blocking the est from reaching the receptors in the first place, theres no chance for the feed back in the presence of estrogen as your claiming if the body isnt even using it/tell its there.... Instead the feedback loop I mentioned would run its course and since your body obviously can tell that test islow at thee start of pct OF COURSE its going to boost TEST PRODUCTION much more so then aromatase especially with the chemical help from an htpa restoring SERM.

It's not that simple. Nolvadex for example is selective in it's nature to block estrogen receptors at certain areas of the body and not others. So large amounts of estrogen would still be free to bind to other areas in the body, just not in the breast area thanks to Nolva.

So the body must still sense some Estrogen in other receptors, and with it being a large amount, I think it would know. If it was a lot of estrogen throughout the day just circulating the blood the body will sense it. Thus.. using the effect of increase in estrogen leading to increase in testosterone like I've been saying. A pathway for this to work even while using a SERM.

With second part bolded I agree. It works this way too. No androgen receptors are being filled so testosterone is spiked up to fill them by LH secretion. I believe this to be true. I think there are pathways for this to work too. I'm not arguing anything against this point here. This does work. You're the one telling me mine doesn't work so stick to that and tell me why.

Btw I hope you realize they RESET the rep points sometimes as often as within a year. Look at my join date and my post count, wtf you think I was asking over 8000 questions across the last 5 years? Think I wasn't reading, cycling, and holding intimate conversations through pms with some of the most well regarded chemists on the boards to date and don't have a clue about what I might be speaking about?

Sorry not being a d!ck or anything but first thing you do is sound like a smug a$$hole and try to dismiss my post cause of my rep bar sounding all sorts of immature throwing a "p.s." in there. Grow up.

You came at me brah. You came to me telling me what I'm saying is backwards and wrong while I really don't think it is. So don't get upset if I respond harshly.

Rep power lol... c'mon man. What am I an idiot? I don't see your posts or join date? I know you've been around. I see that. But doesn't mean I have to treat you any better than someone with 1 post. You are equal to me as everyone else on here. It's the quality of posts that I will show my respect to, not the quantity of your rep power.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I am running a SERM for 4 weeks. With Forma-stanzol starting at the 2 or 3 week mark as my next PCT. That's sounds solid to me and I don't see no reason not to, and see reasons to do so. That's all.

Add a test booster like HCGenerate in week 4 also and we are golden.

Nolva or Clomid weeks 1-4
Forma-stanzol weeks 2 or 3 TO 6 or 7 (will decide when the time comes)
HCGenerate weeks 4-8

I'm a man on a mission at this point.

 

[poopypants]

I don't keep track of bloods in here. They come and go.

And Russian said estrogen increase increases testosterone. Like I've been saying. So I don't know why you still need proof?



It's not that simple. Nolvadex for example is selective in it's nature to block estrogen receptors at certain areas of the body and not others. So large amounts of estrogen would still be free to bind to other areas in the body, just not in the breast area thanks to Nolva.

Sip the body must still sense some Estrogen in other receptors, and with it being a large amount, I think it would know. If it was a lot of estrogen throughout the day just circulating the blood the body will sense it. Thus.. using the effect of increase in estrogen leading to increase in testosterone like I've been saying. A pathway for this to work even while using a SERM.

With second part bolded I agree. It works this way too. No androgen receptors are being filled so testosterone is spiked up to fill them by LH secretion. I believe this to be true. I think there are pathways for this to work too. I'm not arguing anything against this point here. This does work. You're the one telling me mine doesn't work so stick to that and tell me why.



You came at me brah. You came to me telling me what I'm saying is backwards and wrong while I really don't think it is. So don't get upset if I respond harshly.

Rep power lol... c'mon man. What am I an idiot? I don't see your posts or join date? I know you've been around. I see that. But doesn't mean I have to treat you any better than someone with 1 post. You are equal to me as everyone else on here. It's the quality of posts that I will show my respect to, not the quantity of your rep power.

Its just not going to ONLY effect breast tissue as far as the estrogen is concerned with a serm. Yes the type it blocks is much more densely found in breast tissue but its a systematic drug with a VERY long half life that effects much more of the body then you are saying. I have read MANY studies on nolva clomid and toremifene, your not schooling me here...

If you look more closely at what russian says it IS possible to raise test via that pathway and feedback loop BUT that method isn't really the wisest to be used during pct (reasons why I stated in my first post) since you'll have steep spike in est and because of that fact your method has long been discarded.

Why wait to start DIRECTLY test boosting via chemical or organic supplementation instead of going an INDIRECT route??? I'm just confused at this method since its long been outdated with much more advances using more direct feedback loops and direct methods of supplementation at the time of ceasing exogenous androgen supplementation creating a much more dramatic need for more testosterone by showing the body its low on both hormones (test AND est) and will need more testosterone to both fill in the hole for the direct need of testosterone and estrogen as well via conversion.... Block that aromatase and then your body works even harder at getting more test produced the same as it does for even men with normal physiological levels of testosterone.... Just makes much more sense.

I was purely stating you were trying to dismiss my post based on "reputation" before you even began to debate your view. I didn't "come at you" I was stating what I said in my first post based on the assumption you weren't using a serm even and were purely allowing estrogen to go free in order to raise test, which in fact is what happens naturally if you just stop a cycle without running a pct, BUT is definitely backwards from what is practiced now, a much better route of boosting test then what your body alone can do, is blocking est to raise test. This is definitely most easily achieved using a serm, test boosters and ai's right off the bat.

I'm sorry we have conflicting views but its no reason for you to dismiss me based on reputation alone, one which I have will established here for long before you were even a member and sorry I haven't been an active poster for the last 1.5 years for you to see..... I've already seen plenty of your posts since I've been lurking and then posting once again and you seem to know your stuff, this is just something I would have to definitely disagree with in lieu of more modern and effective pct regimens out now....

Good luck on your pct regardless.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I got you. I see where we differ. I would never use an AI off the bat in PCT and you think it's ok.

I just think two weeks of an estrogen spike would do more good than harm if and only if a SERM is used (that is the crucial part--only if the SERM is used). At the 2 week mark I feel like you've reaped the benefits of the estrogen spike in terms of testosterone and then would be ready to start hacking away estrogen levels with the forma-stanzol or AI. Whether or not the SERM hinders the benefit of the estrogen spike is unknown to be honest. You can't say for sure but I do believe there is a window of opportunity for this thanks to Nolva being selective to the breast tissue mostly.

2 week difference between us is all

And welcome back poopypants. You're already adding some life to this place. Don't get good discussions like this going on very often.

 

[russianstar]

Great to see my old mate back here poops.

Ok bro, all i am concerned with is that the estrogen will run wild for 2 weeks, you said your using nolva, that is the best choice for what your planning. You could also add in a topical 7,8 benzo just to the breast area, its A.I properties are site specific, it has other usefull qualities as we know.
Be carefull, i remember this being done by somone who had run test and tren, they had no probs during the cycle, but during pct following a method similar to yours, they encountered gyno and lost libido, took months to recover properly. Some estrogen is vital to full recovery, too little and you hamper your recovery, and the same goes for too much. I cant be bothered getting to scientific as i know you and the other members here know exactly what im talking about.
All the best with what your planning.

 

[thebigt]

GREAT STUFF HERE-
good luck-chocolatemilk!
welcome back poop!
always good to hear from russian!

 

[MrBigPR]

Great to see my old mate back here poops.

Ok bro, all i am concerned with is that the estrogen will run wild for 2 weeks, you said your using nolva, that is the best choice for what your planning. You could also add in a topical 7,8 benzo just to the breast area, its A.I properties are site specific, it has other usefull qualities as we know.
Be carefull, i remember this being done by somone who had run test and tren, they had no probs during the cycle, but during pct following a method similar to yours, they encountered gyno and lost libido, took months to recover properly. Some estrogen is vital to full recovery, too little and you hamper your recovery, and the same goes for too much. I cant be bothered getting to scientific as i know you and the other members here know exactly what im talking about.
All the best with what your planning.

which ever method is used I highly suggest having proper precautions on hand

 

[jcalvert86]

Great to see my old mate back here poops.

Ok bro, all i am concerned with is that the estrogen will run wild for 2 weeks, you said your using nolva, that is the best choice for what your planning. You could also add in a topical 7,8 benzo just to the breast area, its A.I properties are site specific, it has other usefull qualities as we know.
Be carefull, i remember this being done by somone who had run test and tren, they had no probs during the cycle, but during pct following a method similar to yours, they encountered gyno and lost libido, took months to recover properly. Some estrogen is vital to full recovery, too little and you hamper your recovery, and the same goes for too much. I cant be bothered getting to scientific as i know you and the other members here know exactly what im talking about.
All the best with what your planning.

What pct would you suggest following a test/tren cycle?