Finding Up to Date Info and Reputable Products and Sensible Stacks
- 08-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Finding Up to Date Info and Reputable Products and Sensible Stacks
Noob here obviously so go easy and use lube if I screw up please.
I have read and understand the rules on Sourcing and requesting sources. I also have used the Search button and Google which is part of the problem. I will list some things I have found and perhaps some kind soul can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.
1. There is too much info out there just using generic searches via Google. I understand the supplement industry and how disreputable supplement makers convolute ingredients etc. So, I have read more than I can digest recently about who has the latest and greatest product. Then, there's the clones and derivitives and replacements for banned products etc etc etc.
2. There is a LOT of outdated and incomplete information out there. I know some -bols and -drols etc got banned earlier this year. But it's hard to tell which ones as the names begin to run together after a while and after digesting all the marketing speak. I also see quite a few logs here that never seem to be completed.
3. I can't really find what seems to reliable (aka - no shills) information on what companies are reliable and are REALLY putting the good stuff in their bottles. I always get suspicious when I see a thread on a new product or formula with a bunch of guys with 1 post that registered yesterday trumpeting about how great it is.
So, if there are existing and up to date and reliable threads or sources of info I'd really appreciate links. I am 40 and still recovering from neck surgery #2. I'm pretty much back but I have to be EXTREMELY careful about how I lift. I lift as heavy as I can and I want to use the best supplements I can get to make the most of it. I have used a few PHs in the past, before my injury and before the big 2005 ban.
I have been working out for 17 years so I know how gear up and push it to get the best out of my supplements. I am comfortable with the PCT and support product info I have read. I can take care of those via the online store here.
Thanks again for any good info.
- 08-18-2010, 04:04 PM
before doing anything..I would wait for the neck to finish healing. I'm waiting on my hand to finish healing as we speak....
What exact kinds of "supplements" are you interested in using?
What are your goals?
What is your diet?
- 08-18-2010, 05:09 PM
Injury was in 2003, first surgery AUG 2003. It failed, 2nd surgery was in JAN 2006 so the neck itself is as good as it will ever be. I meant that I was still recovering from the 3.5 year layoff after the injury and 2 surgeries. I shrunk up to just over 150lbs, down from my original 175-180. But, good advice for sure. I am back to a very good fundamental workout now so I think I am ready for some good supplementation. I ain't 18 anymore so I'll take all the help I can get.
As for supplement types let's just say I don't want to take a chance on getting arrested when buying it. I'm an ex cop and I know all the cops I wanna know. Don't want to meet any new ones. PHs or designers are great but there is just too much BS out there and so many companies advertising on cruddy looking fly by night, here today gone tomorrow, we sold you milk sugar websites.
I am an ectomorph and carried VERY low body fat until my injury. I'm still well below 12% at 5'11", 173 or so. Due to running, karate, cycling, and SWAT training, I was told by a few different gym trainers that I was under 6% using the hand held body fat testers and caliper tests.
I am not stuck on being HUGE or becoming a power lifter. I want nice gains that I can keep in both strength and size. 185lbs at 10% or less would be nice for my age and I can oil up and pose for the wife. I still ride BMX bikes so I don't need to get any heavier than 185 or a lean 190 at MOST. Stronger is great but that will be limited due to the fact that I can't do shoulder squats at all or do heavy deadlifts or any good pure power exercises. Flat bench sucks due to neck stress etc. I train smart because I don't want anymore neck surgeries. So, front squats are OK, but no military press obviously, etc etc.
I tend to eat a little heavy on the meats and starches. But, for any cycle I will suck it up, lean out the meats, eat heavy on the carbs if needed due to the supps being carb hogs, and up the protein to 1.5g -2g per/lb of body weight. With my bike riding as cardio, I'll keep the excess fat off. I don't mind if I pick up a bit of fat or whatever during the cycle. I'll ride it off when I come off. I'm not prone to hair loss. Liver is in good shape and will be supported. Never had gyno symptoms with anything in the past. I took a couple of andros and 1 round of 1-Test back in the day before the Feds got all worked up about guys being healthy.
Superdrol of course sounds great but I read about "superdrol" and all the clones and see all these ads and that's when I start wondering about who is selling sugar pills. The MR Supplements stuff looks good on paper but I have not seen much end user feedback on Dieselbolan, Epi Strong, or Helladrol.
I'm liking the idea of a Superdrol (what brand???) + Epi stack along with something like the AI cycle and support stack sold here in the AM store. But, I'm open to better stack ideas of course.
The Primordial support/PCT stacks "look" good too but there is a LOT of marketing included with that stuff. And, I get suspicious of any product that has multiple clever names for DHEA such as Finaflex.
Old cop story that is part of the source of my skepticism. My partner and I (both of us worked out hard, took PHs, protein, took our vitamins and said our prayers like the Hulkster) arrested a guy with a small duffel bag of 'roids. 25+ boxes of orals and a few ampules. Only 2 of the amps were legit and even they were very watered down test and the orals were all 100% fakes out of China. So, this a55 was ripping people off in the local gyms but we couldn't charge him with that part of it. I say if a man can buy tits or get his cack chopped off, he should be able to see a doc and do clean pharmacutical grade drugs and get proper dosages and blood testing.
But, I digress......
Last edited by specmike; 08-18-2010 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Injury clarification.
08-18-2010, 08:54 PM
If you want legit then you need to find a doc. There are many anti-aging clinics that will give you a legit script for test, hgh, whatever. Normally thats a pay out of pocket situation since insurance doesn't like to play ball but it is legit. Real MD. Real 'script.
I'm a fan of superdrol. I did some CEL Mdrol but it was hit or miss for me. I dosed rather high on a pulse and some times nothing. Some times it blasted my ass off. I have a feeling there was a quality control issue but the CEL reps say they've tested extensively and its not so.... My personal experiences makes it suspect but I've used lots of their non-hormonal stuff and they are generally sound.
Best thing to do is look around the logs and see who is running what. Then google for it.
08-19-2010, 12:46 AM
I have tried alot of different products over the years. And it is really important for me to rely on a company's quality. Specially, if I am doing a PH or DS cycle. Alot of planning and time goes in to a cycle. If you start cycling a bunk product, it is a huge disappointment. I got a bad batch of m-drol last year and I was really bummed out. Right after that I found Primordial Performance. I have tried about every product that company sells or used to sell. Nothing but quality products. One of the only companies I trust 100%.
08-19-2010, 01:36 AM
well superdrol isn't a PH it's a steroid....if you want supplements...go to the supplements...not trying to be rude...but most **** in here is "on the fence" sort of speak...or over it.....
08-19-2010, 02:17 AM
You guys are pointing me in the right direction and I appreciate it. I am figuring out how to read between the lines so to speak.
08-19-2010, 03:19 AM
Once I found my M-drol was bunk, I broke open my stash and pulled out a bottle of Ultra Mass (APS) - def not bunk. Its superdrol (10mg) + 19Nor (40mg) per cap. First load and BAM - so on. No question it was solid stuff. Put the lid back on and finished the mostly bunk stuff and went into PCT. Gonna run the Ultra Mass once I'm really ready to bang (and after my blood test at the end of the month.)
08-19-2010, 01:25 PM
Unless there are some better suggestions, I think I have narrowed it down to something from Primordial Performance or possibly Muscle Research. I want to find a nice sensible 2 product stack. I like the premade stacks from PP that already have support and PCT figured out.
08-19-2010, 05:29 PM
08-20-2010, 12:58 AM
OK, after reading for several hours I have found some more info and would like some opinions. First, does this list and the statements on stacking make sense?
Copied from the Advanced Nutrition site:
Based on that and based on what stuff I am finding that seems to be legit gear, I like either a Beastdrol/Epi Strong/Dermacrine mix or a Turinabol/Epi Strong/Dermacrine mix.Class I = binds to androgen receptor
Class II = does not
These pro-hormone classifications are based on their steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE post so below. If that goes unnoticed, PM me.
Boldenone based - 1,4AD & Bold
Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Dienolone based - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based - Epistane & Clones (like Havoc & so on so forth)
Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - Pheraplex & clones
DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA
Masteron (Dromostanolone) based - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosteron e) based - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
Winstrol (stanozolol) based - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based - Furazadrol etc
Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
Clostebol based - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
If you plan on stacking two pro-hormones at the same time, the best combination are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on...
So, time for more reading and here is the new round of questions. I'll keep them simple.
1. Does a mix of what the list above calls Class 1 and Class 2 make sense?
2. Assuming this is a good mix, between the Superdrol clone or the Halodrol clone, which would make more sense to add to the Epi or Epi+Dermacrine?
3. Does the Dermacrine make sense to add in to this mix or, would something like Andro Hard be better. Not sure I like what I have read about DHT so far and that seems to be the main ingredient in Andro Hard.
4. Does an actual stack or a bridge make more sense assuming mixing Beastdrol/Epi or Turinabol/Epi is a good mix?
I am planning on taking the right amount of Liver Juice and using something like the PP Testosterone Recovery Stack (Sustain Alpha, Toco8, and Endo Amp) along with whatever goodies we decide on. If anyone has better suggestions for support and PCT, I'm all ears.
08-20-2010, 01:48 AM
Dermacrine is beefed up DHEA that coverts to test so it is always good to add to a cycle.
For your 1st run use Turinabol or Epi solo. I'm gonna go on a limb and say at 5'11' and 170lbs you have yet to max your natural potential so you will gain on cycle rather easy.
If you decide on the Epi I would get a actual SERM, if you chose the Turin you will prolly be alright using just the TRS.
08-20-2010, 02:00 AM
aps's products were the f*cking sh*t.
these two books will take care of your needs----v
Olympus Labs Rep in the UK ;)
08-20-2010, 02:33 AM
yea for first cycle id definetly run either epi or hdrol solo or u can add in some dermacrine to help. i LOVE LOVE LOVE epi at 40-50mg/day for a month. gave me real solid gains and lots of strength. hdrol gave me real high blood pressure and when i tried epi + hdrol there were a few times i got so mad i just started crying. i put a knuckle print in my old car too from punching it. either route you go id try to source up some clomid as that stuff has been gold for me as far as restarting my natty test and keeping gains.
CELTIC LABS REP
08-20-2010, 03:21 AM
08-20-2010, 04:39 PM
My last run was Rage RV5 last year. I made some good gains which I kept. Even with heavy cardio and pulsing I gained and kept about 8 solid points.
But, I could tell by my sex drive that my support and PCT was a bit weak. It came back slowly and seems normal now. I pulsed it over about 7-8 weeks because I knew my PCT was weak. I just wish I had read more here before that run.
I'll be smarter about it this time for sure as all I used for PCT was the Gasparri Novedex. I ran it from about week 4 on and finished it out after the Rage was gone.
Going by the chart above and the RV5 label, I was stacking Halodrol and Superdrol which seems like I would be taking 2 competing substances. Not sure that is a great mix. Also by that chart, the Pheraplex was a good idea.
08-20-2010, 05:27 PM
I think its always wiser to run a compound for the first time solo so that you know how you respond to it (or if you are a non-responder.) Once you have an idea what dosage and durations work for you then you can start making very intelligent stacks.
There are also other issues to consider. If you run dry compounds you generally get dryer joints. With a neck issue this might be more of a consideration.
Different compounds like different diets. Superdrol loves carbs. Loves them.
Lipid effects very. Good things to know if you have issues.
08-20-2010, 11:47 PM
Whatever I decide on, I may do a log of sorts. I am not much worried about increasing specific lifts. Just generally stronger is OK. I'll let the mirror be the judge.
08-24-2010, 05:47 PM
I may also get something like the Black Cats or similar product if I am feeling the lethargy that some people report.
At my weight, does any one have any suggestions on the Turinabol dosage profile or should I just take it exactly like the label says?
And, when do I kick in the PCT? After ALL the Turinabol and Dermacrine are gone or, at some point during my run?
I'm also wondering for my purposes if the PP 1-T is a better option than the Dermacrine.
08-24-2010, 07:18 PM
The Turinabol is just Promagnon right? 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b, 17b-diol)
Looked at the PP site quick. They rec dosing at 60mg/day. 50-75mg seemed to be the more popular dosing strategy based on a quick chat with a friend who liked his run and a couple searches. Sorry, I haven't run it so I can't give much personal info.
Start the PCT once the extra hormones have cleared your system. Its really difficult to get the HTPA restarted when that stuff is still swirling around the blood stream. So you need to know the half-life as well so that you start PCT once your blood levels are low enough.
08-25-2010, 02:07 AM
I would wait on the Dermacrine, just get the Turinabol MS. It's a mild run, the more you add the more aggressive a PCT you will need. For dosing start at 60 for 2 weeks then move up if needed.
The half life is rather short so you will want to start PCT the day after you end your cycle.
09-02-2010, 03:22 AM
OK, I FINALLY have a plan. I'll update and take some pictures soon. I weighed at the gym and got the simple hand held electronic body fat test. 177lbs and 14.9% body fat.
I have a business trip for a week, SEPT 12-18. So, I'm going to work on the cardio until then and keep a good lift routine going and try to drop some body fat before I start the real stuff. My run starts Monday September 20.
I'm going to do the Turinabol run from PP along with their Liver Juice, Testosterone Recovery Stack, and the proper diet and protein, creatine, glutamine, vitamins, EFAs, etc.
But, another question while I gather my ammo. Do I need to look into anything specifically for my prostate? That's not one of the things I want to grow.
11-03-2010, 03:49 AM
Well, here is a VERY short synopsis. I did the Turinabol + Dermacrince from PP. It went just like I expected. I dropped about 7lbs right off the bat down to 170. Then, I put on about 4lbs total the first 2-3 weeks or so. The last 3 weeks, I put on about 8-9lbs to go to a nice 183lbs. I did not log it as I was not interested in a meticulous accounting.
I got a damned sinus infection last week so I am on my PCT, the PP test recovery stack, and I am working hard and eating to keep my gains. I missed about 7-10 days worth of the Turinabol because I could not train and did not want to waste it. I'll save it in the fridge and bridge it with something in my next run. If I don't find something better, I will bridge it with a 3-4 week run of Superdrol for about a 5-6 week run.
All my lifts were stronger by week 3 and stayed up approximately 15% by my best estimate. Again, I was not interested in logging every ounce. I was mainly watching the mirror. I did well hitting some weak areas including lats, rear delts, and my legs.
Overall, I got what I was told I would and I am happy with my run. I'm going to do the PCT and train hard and try another run in mid to late JAN 2011. I am hoping to use the new PP stuff coming out if it pans out to be good stuff.
Thanks for all the input here. I did not do EXACTLY like some of you said but, I did do a much more educated run this time around. My body responded well, especially considering my training limitations.
FYI, the Turinabol made my joints ache like crazy. I am succeptible to that anyway due to the injuries, especially in my neck and shoulders. The T'bol also wrecked my sleep. I was a zombie part of the time on this stuff but, it comes with the territory I guess. I used the HGHpro from AI for the 2nd half of my run and it did 2 things. It helped with the sleep and it helped with the aches. I did not have to use a sleep aid nor did I have to gobble Ibuprophen. Obviously, I have no idea if the HGHpro helped with the muscle gains but it sure did not hurt them. And a good nights sleep and less aches were well worth it!
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