Theory of oral loading

[Jasen]

Ok I tried this before and again with m1t I have not seem anyone really do this or wrote about it. What it is, is basically let's say you run m1t or sd for example, usually this is done in this manner 10 20 30 30, but why? We all know these mass builders only really put size on first 2 weeks. Or atleast to me it seems so. So why not do opposite? ran them 30 30 20 10 (keep at 10 for as long as you want the cycle to be) this way you utilize the most out of their explosive size potential and take a beating while your liver is fresh then slowly tamper down to 10 for maintenance of size since by week 3/4 the compound would already be thick in your blood. This seems safer and more reasonable to me and has worked alot better than the original proposed way. Of course this should be done only with orals one already has experience with. Think of it similar to a creatine load.

 

[Jasen]

Believe or not this is extremely effective towards me and my buddies ever since I first came up with the idea. Btw if I misspelled sorry still getting used to me droidx swipe

 

[Killerkanadia]

Instead of

10/20/30/30 or
30/30/20/10

Why not just run 30/30/30/30. What's the need to "taper off" when you have a SERM to jump your body back into the correct state?

 

[MikeGfilms]

Hmm this is pretty intresting, kinda ties into the SD/Epi bridge idea to keep gains, but using only SD for a shorter time.

Im sure it would work for some, but most people will gain another 5-10lbs after the second week on their SD cycle, instead of say just "cruising", or keeping your gains where theyre at.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Instead of

10/20/30/30 or
30/30/20/10

Why not just run 30/30/30/30. What's the need to "taper off" when you have a SERM to jump your body back into the correct state?

Side effects, Plus i like my liver enough to keep it around for a while....Oh wait i forgot, were talking to Jasen hahaha. Kill it with the 40/40/40/40!!!!

 

[Jasen]

re read what I write your missing the concept

 

[Killerkanadia]

re read what I write your missing the concept

I know what you were getting at, i don't think most people build their mass in the first two weeks. Maybe retain more glyocgen.

 

[Jasen]

Yah basically utilize the mass phase of orals then tamper dose down to maintain and help solidify its better thean kickin your liver for a.few weeks thsn going to 30 and complrtely killing it plus once the crazy masd part is over even at 30 most dont gain more tan a few lbs on week 3/4

 

[Jasen]

Must who ran sd and m1t gain most of their right on first few weeks. No one gains 10lbs week 4 its just to help solidify the gains

 

[UnrealMachine]

i understand the taper off, if you use a real low dose you can stick on an extra week or two. I just don't see the need to start so high the first week. To me the first week is a transition phase and there's not a huge difference, either way your body is changing rapidly and sucking up resources and piling on weight, and the strength doesn't even come until week 2.

I have started SD at 30mg before and i will not do it again because it really didn't add anything... I gained more weight the first week but not strength the first week so it was just more rapid water gain lol... actually looked a little bloated from gaining 13 pounds in 7 days (and it was a lean diet too). Not to mention jumping straight in at 30mg caused massive dehydration and also got some calve pumps. I was drinking water like CRAZY to deal with it and like i just said, resulted in lots of water weight gain

IMO completely unnecessary... not like you are building tons of muscle during 1 week anyway.

20/30/30/10/10, it looks weird but i could see it working, but last two weeks are more like maintenance than the massive gains you would see on weeks 2 and 3.

Taper down with something strong like SD/M1T really just seems equivalent to running a bridge into something milder like PP or Epi. Either way though you should run your orals into an injectable base

 

[Jasen]

Exactly but I noticed good results starting at 30 but se you get my point stay high load up then run low for maintenance

 

[TheTransforma]

I'm affraid that if you do this that your body will fight the external hormones by raising the cortisol devil in order to achieve homeostatis, which in this case will result in cortisol levels higher > external hormone level. Meaning that what you gained earlier would been eaten away partly because of the cortisol devil.
That being said, most orals produce there gains around the end of two/three week mark, it is a good idea to do mini cycles. So, 3 weeks on, pct, 3 weeks off everything, repeat cycle. More healthy and quality gains. In theory, at least.

 

[gamer2be08]

I know what you were getting at, i don't think most people build their mass in the first two weeks. Maybe retain more glyocgen.

I know I dont.. I gain on 3rd week and on..

 

[chocolatemilk]

I gained like 3 pounds week 3 with SD... 2 pounds in week 4.... and you know what? I was bumping calories like crazy eating like a sh*t load of bad food to get calories high and ONLY gaining 2-3 pounds in the last weeks.

I'm sure if I didn't bump calories up I would have gained maybe 1-2 pounds weeks 3-4 on SD.

Wieght gain DOES slow down... however strength seems to rise all the way through.

I like the idea J.

And Unreal I wouldn't mind putting on as much water weight as I could, it should translate into good strength gains down the road even tho it might not the first week. Also, disgustingly good workout pumps in the gym with more water weight. Also, wouldn't more water weight be a better environment for muscles to grow in?

J says the best gains come from the first 2 weeks. I agree.

Why not take advantage and go HARD as hell those first two weeks. Then slow it down. Cuz it seems to slow down anyway even if you bump up the MG and calories.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I gained like 3 pounds week 3 with SD... 2 pounds in week 4.... and you know what? I was bumping calories like crazy eating like a sh*t load of bad food to get calories high and ONLY gaining 2-3 pounds in the last weeks.

I'm sure if I didn't bump calories up I would have gained maybe 1-2 pounds weeks 3-4 on SD.

Wieght gain DOES slow down... however strength seems to rise all the way through.

I like the idea J.

And Unreal I wouldn't mind putting on as much water weight as I could, it should translate into good strength gains down the road even tho it might not the first week. Also, disgustingly good workout pumps in the gym with more water weight. Also, wouldn't more water weight be a better environment for muscles to grow in?

J says the best gains come from the first 2 weeks. I agree.

Why not take advantage and go HARD as hell those first two weeks. Then slow it down. Cuz it seems to slow down anyway even if you bump up the MG and calories.

^^In BOLD that's what's important. Strength goes up in weeks 3/4 because that corresponds to actual muscle being built not just water/glycogen and crap temporary weight. Weight goes up in weeks 1/2 because that corresponds to water loading.

the weight gain you're seeing in weeks 3 and 4 shows you how much real muscle you are gaining (so long as you are not gaining fat). About 2 pounds of muscle per week is about how fast your body can actually build muscle.

Well there's nothing wrong with the water loading but your body can only do it so fast, I thought 30 was excessive and the water loading was more like bloat. Instead of starting at 30 you're better off starting at 10 but doing an additional week at 20... same amount of SD overall but more time to make that ACTUAL muscle gain.

 

[perico13]

Yah basically utilize the mass phase of orals then tamper dose down to maintain and help solidify its better thean kickin your liver for a.few weeks thsn going to 30 and complrtely killing it plus once the crazy masd part is over even at 30 most dont gain more tan a few lbs on week 3/4

I've heard of this concept before being reffered to as a
"ski slope" cycle you still make gains in those later weeks, the sides are minimized because of the decreasing dose amounts as the cycle progress. Tempering off also allows for the body to get back to baseline as oppesed to just stopping at a higher dose. Again this is all theory hear say I get from the gym, just thought I'd share.However I do 100% agree that all oral cycles shoudl be run into an injectable base.

 

[lyfespan]

I like the thinking outside the box, Jasen. I noticed the same thing about the SD. And am now interested in trying 10/20/10/10 on the M1T, also wondering if taking M1T down to 5mgs would even make any difference, on how bad your liver gets hit, and could ya possible go 5 wks on M1T at say 15/20/10/5/5.

 

[chocolatemilk]

^^In BOLD that's what's important. Strength goes up in weeks 3/4 because that corresponds to actual muscle being built not just water/glycogen and crap temporary weight. Weight goes up in weeks 1/2 because that corresponds to water loading.

the weight gain you're seeing in weeks 3 and 4 shows you how much real muscle you are gaining (so long as you are not gaining fat). About 2 pounds of muscle per week is about how fast your body can actually build muscle.

Well there's nothing wrong with the water loading but your body can only do it so fast, I thought 30 was excessive and the water loading was more like bloat. Instead of starting at 30 you're better off starting at 10 but doing an additional week at 20... same amount of SD overall but more time to make that ACTUAL muscle gain.

That's all very true. Good points. Back to square one.

J give us a detailed experience of yours from running SD or M1T at a steady does all the way through and what happened when you tapered down how you're saying? Was there really a beneficial difference?

 

[Jasen]

Well I noticed beter results like I said for example a while back I did 30 30 than tampered down on sd gained 11 first week 8 second week a few more lbs ever week after than when I pct I kept 21 out of 23 lbs this was like 6 week cycle. It just seems more logical to me why kick liver when its down? Another.example, better to hit liver while its fresh then later goo low dose for those who are worried about liver. Besides either way you dose it if you gain 8lbs a week wether it is high dose our low dose our week one or week four it won't be 8 lbs of muscle

 

[UnrealMachine]

Jasen, you dose SD higher from the start and your liver won't be "FRESH" for as long

total mg over a given amount of time is the way to look at it.

 

[SouthernCharm]

Jasen, you dose SD higher from the start and your liver won't be "FRESH" for as long

total mg over a given amount of time is the way to look at it.

I agree with this. Higher dosages means a higher concentration that the liver has to process. So you might feel great during the first couple of weeks, but who's to say your liver isn't shot by the time you're only running 10mg?

I like the theory Jasen, however I think since people respond differently to things, that it could prove beneficial to some while dangerous to others.

 

[Jasen]

Yes that is true that's why this should be done with oral one has much expertise with

 

[Killerkanadia]

Live and learn, and then get cirrhosis of the liver.

 

[Jasen]

Lmao well if ppl are scarred go natrual

 

[SouthernCharm]

Yes that is true that's why this should be done with oral one has much expertise with

If this was the case, I think there's reason to your idea. If you have never run the compound, you shouldn't try to preload it. Orals anyway.

 

[crazyfool405]

Ok I tried this before and again with m1t I have not seem anyone really do this or wrote about it. What it is, is basically let's say you run m1t or sd for example, usually this is done in this manner 10 20 30 30, but why? We all know these mass builders only really put size on first 2 weeks. Or atleast to me it seems so. So why not do opposite? ran them 30 30 20 10 (keep at 10 for as long as you want the cycle to be) this way you utilize the most out of their explosive size potential and take a beating while your liver is fresh then slowly tamper down to 10 for maintenance of size since by week 3/4 the compound would already be thick in your blood. This seems safer and more reasonable to me and has worked alot better than the original proposed way. Of course this should be done only with orals one already has experience with. Think of it similar to a creatine load.

the reason is asessing tolerance maybe take 3 days got get up to that dose.

i actually LOVE the idea. also the tapering down is good, less effective on orals then injectables but still may help recovery slightly better.

ill try it.

 

[Presa]

I'm gonna try this cycle because the last time I tried a regular cycle the sides caused me to stop in week three. So why not blast and then cruise in reverse all the way back down. Brilliant my good man!!!

 

[Jasen]

Thanks

 

[chocolatemilk]

J clear ur inbox u ho

 

[SouthernCharm]

Lmao well if ppl are scarred go natrual

hahaha i lol'd

 

[Jasen]

I can't delete til I'm on a computer its weird il delete tonight

 

[RAHHH]

Instead of

10/20/30/30 or
30/30/20/10

Why not just run 30/30/30/30. What's the need to "taper off" when you have a SERM to jump your body back into the correct state?

exacly!

lfront loadign is stupd. and if you think your gettign the most gains the first 2 weeks your confusing intramusculer water for muscle lbs.

 

[Jasen]

read the whole thread. like i said either way ur getting glycogen fluid and fat if in a week u gain 8 lbs wether its week 1 2 3 4 dosent matter. might es well get it in beginning then use a mild dose to hold onto gains and help them solidify.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

For the experienced person this might be a good idea. Most of the time people recommend ramping up so you can assess your tolerance for the ph. instead of jumping in heavy see how it affects you. but if you know what it takes then I jump in heavy and taper off.

 

[Jasen]

yuppp i said early on, do this with a compund u are well experinced with. DEF not for a first run of new oral.

 

[Jasen]

like me and unreal, we live and breath SD i know i can take SD to 40mg EASYYYYY i can take it at 30mg with 50mg anadrol EASYYYYY.