i am sure most ppl on this site know about enlarged heart from aas my ?'s are
do you think stimulants like caffeine, cocaine and amphetamines preworkout well on cycle contribute to this ?
do you think large amounts of cardio well on cycle contribute to this ?
my line of thinking is in both cases your working your heart harder and your heart is a muscle your on aas so the muscle grows i have tried finding info on this all i find is ass can give you a enlarged heart i was just wonding if anyone thinks there is more to it or not
thanks

actually, cardio helps prevent cardiomyopathic left ventricular hypertrophy...

i understand cardio off cycle helps pervent it and there are studies to back that. i just wonder about cardio well on cycle if the effect to the heart would be defferent. i my mind the harder you work you heart well on cycle the more it mite effect it

nope, the effect to the heart is the same... it will also stave off on cycle HBP and keep your 'crit in check longer.

Originally Posted by MrRobRage

actually, cardio helps prevent cardiomyopathic left ventricular hypertrophy...

not exactly

it increases heart size.

Originally Posted by crazyfool405

not exactly

it increases heart size.

Not exactly it depends on what type of.cardio same with what type of aas. I read propinate test as well as wet drugs like dbol and anadrol increase heart size

Cardio does help with bp problems

Also one important thing i learned in college how heart increased is.important. if through drugs that's bad. If ur heart increased through intense cardio that not all that negative as u may thing its quiet positive. And yes this was explained in my bio class by a teach.who is.a.doctor.in sports medicine

Originally Posted by Jasen

Also one important thing i learned in college how heart increased is.important. if through drugs that's bad. If ur heart increased through intense cardio that not all that negative as u may thing its quiet positive. And yes this was explained in my bio class by a teach.who is.a.doctor.in sports medicine

interesting.


and OP did you just type the world bolth? lol

Originally Posted by wedlund6

i am sure most ppl on this site know about enlarged heart from aas my ?'s are
do you think stimulants like caffeine, cocaine and amphetamines preworkout well on cycle contribute to this ?
do you think large amounts of cardio well on cycle contribute to this ?
my line of thinking is in bolth cases your working your heart harder and your heart is a muscle your on aas so the muscle grows i have tried finding info on this all i find is ass can give you a enlarged heart i was just wonding if anyone thinks there is more to it or not
thanks

Sorry I just couldn't stop laughing

//CC

Originally Posted by ConcreteConny

Sorry I just couldn't stop laughing

//CC

Lol that's awesome. It has some other effects too!!!!

Originally Posted by ZamaMan

Lol that's awesome. It has some other effects too!!!!

Fine ass makes my **** bigger, and makes my heart pump faster

I <3 a fine booty

so sex enlarges heart?

i get horney look at my tren-e bottle......

Originally Posted by Jasen

so sex enlarges heart?

i get horney look at my tren-e bottle......

I would too if I had one

//CC

yeah j likes that **** in his body! yeahhhh boiiiii!

the heart is a muscle, it has androgen receptors.

aas can elarge a ventricle of the heart. this has been shown in studies. phera plex is one i can say off the top of my head has been shown to do this.

there are numerous studies on this subject. very easy to find.

anyone who doesn't think this is a potential side effect is fooling themselves.

I've read the same about Phera. But I guess one or 2, 4 weeks cycles of this can't do much more harm than other compounds.. Or am I just in denial?

//CC

it's a potential risk, so no one will know until your that 1 with an enlarged heart out of the hundreds that didn't.

Originally Posted by jbryand101b

the heart is a muscle, it has androgen receptors.

aas can elarge a ventricle of the heart. this has been shown in studies. phera plex is one i can say off the top of my head has been shown to do this.

there are numerous studies on this subject. very easy to find.

anyone who doesn't think this is a potential side effect is fooling themselves.

yes spot on andro receptors! like i said earlier compunds like dbol and anadrol cause this problem. alot

Originally Posted by jbryand101b

it's a potential risk, so no one will know until your that 1 with an enlarged heart out of the hundreds that didn't.

Originally Posted by Jasen

yes spot on andro receptors! like i said earlier compunds like dbol and anadrol cause this problem. alot

Based on either experiences you have had or opinions/facts, do anavar and winny tabs enlarge the heart with heavy heavy cardio? I'm a bball player, and was definitely thinking of incorporating winny and anavar into my cycle this fall, but that's when bball off season transitions into the season for me. I will also be running clen to burn any excess fat. But yea, I'm just a lil worried now!

sorry no thread hi jack

I also got worried about the enlarged heart effect from my upcoming Phera run Better stay in denial and take the risk I guess What about CoQ10? I know there is not much information on this but wouldn't it support the heart?

EDIT: Found this:

Case studies demonstrate the dramatic effect of CoQ10. In Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications (Jan 15, 1993;182:247-53), Folkers described a 43-year-old man suffering from cardiomyopathy. After being given CoQ10, his enlarged heart became smaller (indicating it was working more efficiently), and he was able to resume an "extremely active athletic lifestyle." The heart function of another patient, a 50-year-old man with very severe cardiomyopathy, returned after he took CoQ10, and he has since had "no limitations of activity."


//CC

so besides taking coq10. should a person limit there cardio well on cycle especially on some aas (phera dbol anadrol)
it seems to me more and more that stims and cardio well on cycle mite not be a good mix

Originally Posted by wedlund6

so besides taking coq10. should a person limit there cardio well on cycle especially on some aas (phera dbol anadrol)
it seems to me more and more that stims and cardio well on cycle mite not be a good mix

I will still be doing cardio twice a week while on Phera/Bold. MMA practice to be specific.. Kinda tough cardio.

//CC

Originally Posted by rsr08

Based on either experiences you have had or opinions/facts, do anavar and winny tabs enlarge the heart with heavy heavy cardio? I'm a bball player, and was definitely thinking of incorporating winny and anavar into my cycle this fall, but that's when bball off season transitions into the season for me. I will also be running clen to burn any excess fat. But yea, I'm just a lil worried now!

sorry no thread hi jack

well this is the funny part!
ur a bb player so chances r depedns on ur cardio level ur heart might have had elargment but i highly doubt it! marathone runners that type of extreme cardio elarges heart (positively) so that ur able to keep doing ur activity. so i guess its the hyperplasia of muscles but more of hyperpkasia of heart in dumb terms so ppl cand raw a picture in their mind. through MASSIVE cardio the heart enlarges to meet demands remember this is not bad. now i have seen articles proving clen increase heart size which sounds understandable since the effects of clen. anavar and winnie i doubt those have the ability to enlarge heart. it appears that only WET AAS have this potential. phera dbol anadrol etc. and T-prop as well. CARDIO IS ALWAYS RECOMENDED!!!!!! even on cycle think of it as cycle support for ur heart. it does so many positive things for the body especially heart that even when i bulk ill do 45min 3x a week. if i have to make it up ill eat more calories but cardio is a must. u cannot train ur muscles and disregard ur heart ONLY A MORON WOULD DO THAT IMO. i have noticed becuase i too have gone most of my time not doing cardio earlier in my resitance training time, thats cardio actually lowers many of the sides i experince from AAS maybe thats why my sides are low even on this crazy cycle and 70% is genetics probably as well as diet and support sups being the other part. but yah u get what i mean. btw if u do winnie 8-10G fishoil ur joint will thank u and try to limit high impact cardio

Originally Posted by ConcreteConny

I also got worried about the enlarged heart effect from my upcoming Phera run Better stay in denial and take the risk I guess What about CoQ10? I know there is not much information on this but wouldn't it support the heart?

EDIT: Found this:

Case studies demonstrate the dramatic effect of CoQ10. In Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications (Jan 15, 1993;182:247-53), Folkers described a 43-year-old man suffering from cardiomyopathy. After being given CoQ10, his enlarged heart became smaller (indicating it was working more efficiently), and he was able to resume an "extremely active athletic lifestyle." The heart function of another patient, a 50-year-old man with very severe cardiomyopathy, returned after he took CoQ10, and he has since had "no limitations of activity."


//CC

I wish it stated the doses they took and for how long.

Originally Posted by MikeGfilms

I wish it stated the doses they took and for how long.

I'll have to look that up

//CC

coq-10 is one of the most powerfull body enhancer a human can take, its an amazing miracle imo. everyone should be taking it. especially for heart. i see doctors constantly prescribing coQ10 to patientens

Originally Posted by MrRobRage

actually, cardio helps prevent cardiomyopathic left ventricular hypertrophy...

I would agree. Actually the 2 best studies I found on this are both referenced in ergolog. Here are the links:

1) http://ergo-log.com/provironmice.html
2) http://www.ergo-log.com/cardiodrugs.html

#1 is directly relative, showing increased cardiac function bt doing cardio work while on, and it's the only study of it's kind I've ever found. The major drawback: it's done on mice, but I think the evidence is solid.

#2 is pretty close to directly relative in that trimetazidine is kind of "cardio in a bottle", as I understand. This study was done on rabbits, but there are plenty of promising human studies as well. Long story short, the drug (by limiting fatty-acid metabolism and forcing glucose meatbolism, thus mimicking the effects of aerobic cardio) seems to protect the heart and increase ejection fraction (danger of LVH), so if one were to extrapolate these results, aerobic cardio while on-cycle would seem to be cardioprotective.

Wedlund, I had the same thoughts as you re: heart hypertrophy while on, but I think aerobic work is still as positive for the heart as it is off-cycle. However, I think the literature proves that anaerobic work (read: actually lifting weights, sprints, HIIT, etc) may indeed contribute to LVH. Since obviously we're all going to keep lifting, guess what I won't ever do while on-cycle.

thank you that was a good read