tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) and muscle wasting
- 05-22-2004, 04:52 PM
tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) and muscle wasting
ok guys. im cell biology student, and because i like body building i read alot about growth factors and other factors that effect the muscle cell growth. in my search i found something intresting about (TNF-alpha) growth factor, which effect the muscle directly.
for people who dont know what TNF-alpha (tumor necrosis factor alpha) is. Tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α) is a polypeptide cytokine that has been associated with muscle wasting and weakness of muscle. TNF-α has long been associated with muscle pathology and was originally designated 'cachectin' in recognition of its catabolic action. TNF-α may stimulate catabolism in muscle and protein loss in muscle. you can read more here:
so from the information above you see that TNF-alpha is bad thing for bodybuilders because its responsible for catabolsim and muscle loss. so that evoked my intrest to find a way to block this growth factor, to reduce muscle catabolisim. in my search i found a drug called infliximab an anti- Inflammatory used to treat Crohn's disease. this drug inhibit the ammune system ability to produce TNF-alpha.
in theory bloacking TNF-alpha will come to bodybuilder advantage, because it will stop muscle wasting when dieting.
this drug appeared to have also a unique propety as if its comparable to Growth hormone in its effects. according to: http://18.104.22.168/search?q=cach...le+growth&hl=en "Growth hormone appeared almost as effective as the anti-inflammatory drug infliximab, the only medication approved specifically for Crohn's disease. Slonim's study, however, did not perform exams to see whether the intestinal tissue was healthier."
this dug is only avilable for IM injection, i like to disscuse this theory wth you guy to see how usefull this compund could be for bodybuilders!
- 05-22-2004, 05:42 PM
There are a million things that decrease TNF-Alpha. Diet reduces TNF-Alpha. Insulin reduces TNF-Alpha. I don't think its something to worry about at all. I don't think more drugs are the answer to a problem that isn't even significant in normal men. TNF-Alpha and GLUT4 problems occur in insulin resistant and/or obese patients so the application to BB'ers isn't very feasible.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
05-22-2004, 11:13 PM
While I do agree with Bobos post I am really interested in TNF-alpha and ways to block it. Altho I want to understand more about it first. I have always had problems with muscle wasting, and never understood why. I been tested for low test (which i have/had) and for things like my IGF levels. I went to a endrocorn for this and they diden't find anything wrong with any of my levels of what they tested other than low test. I been on HRT for a while now and my levels of test are actually really high and I am bulking up a bit. But I still have problems with muscle wasting. Some times I will lose a lot of mass after after a work out in the days following it and it will be hard to put any back on. This is coming from some one who has lifted for years, eats right and has his diet in check. This has always been a problem, it was far far far worse when my test levels were really really low before i knew that they were low and started HRT.
So yea, basicly, I would be very interested in a drug like this or any others. X Muscle I would be very interested in talking to you more in privet, or maybe over AIM. And if anyone else has anymore info on this and the drug that blocks it please feel free to post, I really want to learn more about this and am very interested in this as a possablity for me. Thanks for this post and for any future help
05-30-2004, 09:51 PM
05-30-2004, 10:40 PM
sweet i was wondering about this also because i have crohn's and the top treatment for this right now is remicade which is an antibody that tackles tnf-a... looks like my crohn's has finally been good for something... though im worried about long term cancer with this aswell...
05-31-2004, 12:00 AM
actuly TNF-a is found to destroy some cancer cells like prostate cancer.Originally Posted by Cosmo
here you can read about it:
Cohen, Michael B
UNIVERSITY OF IOWA
TNF ALPHA MEDIATED APOPTOSIS IN PROSTATE CANCER
DESCRIPTION: (Adapted from the investigator's abstract) Our long-term goal is to understand the mechanisms that are responsible for resistance toapoptosis in prostate cancer. Understanding the mechanisms involved in apoptosis in a slowly proliferating cancer such as prostate cancer is critical. The studies proposed focus on TNF-a, which plays a critical role in apoptosis in many different cell types, and are designed to understand the mechanisms of TNF-a-induced apoptosis in human prostate cancer. In preliminary studies, we have investigated the role of p53 and p21, caspases, androgens, NF-kB and mitochondrial involvement in the human prostatic carcinoma cell line LNCaP. Our data, using LNCaP and a p53 dominant negative subline (LN56), indicate that p53 plays an important role in TNF-a-ediated apoptosis. In addition, we have made novel observations about the involvement of bisindolylmalimeide (Bis IX) and will allow us to study the mitochondrial pathway in apoptosis. We believe that we have a fascinating cell system to dissect TNF-a receptor signaling, and which addresses key issues raised in the NCI's recent report on prostate cancer. We hypothesize that p53 plays a critical role in mediating TNF-a-induced apoptosis in human prostate cancer. This hypothesis provides an experimental strategy for the identification of factors that are critical in p53-regulated TNF-a-mediated apoptosis. We will compare signal transduction mechanisms and different components of apoptotic machinery during TNF-a-mediated apoptosis. We believe these findings are generalizable to other cell systems and that other signaling molecules play key roles in TNF-a-mediated cell death. In order to test our hypothesis and identify the mechanisms that are responsible for TNF-a-mediated apoptosis in prostate cancer, we propose the following Specific Aims: 1) Determine the role of p21/WAF1 in TNF-a-mediated apoptosis; 2) Determine the role of caspases in TNF-a-mediated apoptosis; androgen, 3) Determine the role of NF-kB in TNF-a-mediated apoptosis; 4) 4. Determine the role of Bis IX on different TNF-a-related signaling pathways, 5. Determine the applicability to other cell systems and identify new genes involved in TNF-a-mediated apoptosis.
05-31-2004, 12:49 AM
yeah and thats the type of thing im worried about since part of tnf-a's role is to kill tumor cells though i also read it can speed the growth of some tumors... Oh well tumors could be growing off my unit and id still use remicade
05-31-2004, 05:45 AM
X muscle, i would like to speak with you privetly if that is possable about this matter i have a few questions I would like to ask but don't want to on here. Do you use a messanger servie like AIM by chance?
07-19-2008, 02:04 PM
I dont know why this thread kept being pumped, but i started this thread way back when i didnt know better. No i think manipulating TNF is a bad idea for many of reasons. First TNF have very short half life. Second TNF is a cytokine involved in systemic inflammation and is a member of a group of cytokines that all stimulate the acute phase reaction of inflamation. TNF is part of the bodies natural defense, and supressing it would hinders the bodies ability to respond to inflmation.
TNF also supress the apetite, and has a role in first response to tumor cells. increasing or deceeasing its levels would not be the smartest idea.
Now 4 years later, i learned that homeostasis is the key.
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