Put the pride aside and help a dude out

bucannear

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Alright, I know dudes get all angry when people ask questions but don't do the research...

I've done the research...but I'm stuck at one thing.

Here is the deal. Im 25, Im a hard gainer and Ive been training for about 4 years.

Im shredded to **** and I can burn calories like a furnace burns wood. Except in my gut, so I gotta watch the sugar intake...

Im 6 foot, about 168, all lean barely much mass. But again, ripped up like a paper cut.

Ive been doing research, checking into various over the counter products and know all about PCT's and the nec. of Clomid or Nolva as well as diet and other supplements to retain gains.

I'd apreciate it if you someone could help me out because I know i need to have a solid PCT in place before I try any PH's.

I trained as an amateur light weight all natural BB for a year and my diet is solid...my supps are good...but I want to add some lean bulk.

Im prone to gyno, so I have considered Epi or Havoc due to its alleged "zero estrogen conversion"

I know Im prone because I had it growing up. 100 pound kid with bitch tits...sucked. Had surgery at 21 and they actually removed benign cysts from my chest...

If you want to know Im legit about my work out...here's what i pack for food and supps...

EATS:
early am:
1 cup flax cereal w almond milk
peanut butter sandwich
protein shake (4 scoops cytogainer w/water and Flaxseed oil)

mid am:
3 hardboiled eggs
1 cup plain oatmeal w 2 scoops cytogainer

mid day:
2 turkey burgers on 2 pieces organic whole wheat bread
1 apple with many scoops of Teddy's PB (like half a jar. love that ish)

A few hours later:
zero impact pumpkin bar

an hour later:
one cup mashed sweet potato with MCT oil

PRE WORKOUT:
2 scoops of Jack3d to get the blood flowing.

WORKOUT:
have a tight regime that was taught by professional lightweight bodybuilder. Workout 5 days a week. 2 days wicked high pace cardio for 10 mins.
variation of:

shoulders
legs
bi/tri
back
chest



POST meal:
Shake w 4 scoops cytogainer, 2 scoops creatine, 2 scoops glutamine, flaxseed oil and BCAA powder
Baked potato
piece of grilled chicken (varies, other days canned tuna)
fruit w wholefat yogurt for dessert

TWO HOURS LATER
1 cup of brown rice mixed with one cup broccoli and carrots

BEFORE BED:
Casein shake.

SUPPS:
CLA 3 caps per day
Carintine
Vit C
Daily Multi vitamin
Cytogainer
Creatine
Glutamine
BCAA's
Tribulus
MCT Oil
Flaxseed oil

All of this has varied over the course of the last few years, as I know it's no good to keep one routine of either diet or exercise.

Please help me out...I have a critical question and I know what i need to do, but I can't nec post it here. can someone e-mail me or PM me.
 
SilentBob187

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No matter what PH you take you're gonna need to eat more. If you're not gaining weight now. You sure as hell aren't going to gain any weight taking X, Y, or Z.
 
SouthernCharm

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Eat more. Try to measure your macros out. This is IMPORTANT. Let's say you're hitting 3300 calories per day, assuming you dont slack and keep it up for 7 days a week, and you still don't gain... Then up the calorie intake between 3700-4000 calories. With a high metabolism, muscle is going to tear calories a new one... So you need to find a way to get more in there.. Adding more oil in your food(olive, coconut, even peanut oil), throw some fat free cheese, avacados, some mini wheats, pork, etc.

Keep your basic diet down like you have it but add in some variables. My body likes a 40/40/20 ratio protein/carb/fat.. For gaining. For cutting, I actually lower the carbs and up the fat. Each individual is different, but until you know how many grams of protein/carbs/fats you're consuming daily you will never gain. Sorry to be so blunt.
 

bucannear

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Nah dude not blunt, i appreciate the input.
I made myself a target for any criticism good or bad by making that post, and I understand that.

Some times when I try to increase food I physically cant stomach it.

Regardless, I am still interested in doing a cycle.
 
SilentBob187

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Some times when I try to increase food I physically cant stomach it.
All the more reason to use fats with every meal. My friend smothers his sandwiches in olive oil. He's also eating 6000+ cal a day on his goal to 300lb.
 
SouthernCharm

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Nah dude not blunt, i appreciate the input.
I made myself a target for any criticism good or bad by making that post, and I understand that.

Some times when I try to increase food I physically cant stomach it.

Regardless, I am still interested in doing a cycle.
Here's a way to gain 800 or so extra calories in one sitting. It's not solid food but this is the gainer shake, I sometimes even eat breakfast about an hour after this shake...

2 scoops of protein (for this shake I use pro complex..but have various proteins)
1 cup milk
1/2 cup oats - 1 cup oats
1 medium banana
tblsp natty pb or almond butter
dash cinnamon
ice

makes a big ass shake, takes about 10 minutes to drink it but easier to consume then 810 calories of solid food (unless you like double whoppers and all that trans and saturated fat..not good for clean gains)

you are gonna gain a bit of fat. if anyone tells you otherwise, they might lying to ya ;)

get your diet on for 1-2 months, which will include a surplus of what you're already consuming and then consider a cycle.. im very serious. at least do that so that you dont throw money away, as the best gains made on cycle are the ones where your diet is spot on.
 
SouthernCharm

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All the more reason to use fats with every meal. My friend smothers his sandwiches in olive oil. He's also eating 6000+ cal a day on his goal to 300lb.
They got this place called Jimmy Johns close to me and they have a big sandwich called the big vito or something like that its a bunch of deli meat, provolone onions and its DRENCHED in olive oil. I think its about 2000 calories.. LOL
 

bucannear

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thanks guys. Ill hede (sp?) your advice before moving on to any PH's...but if my curiosity remains, I'm coming back to the board...
 
Zero V

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I have issues gaining. Natural Peanut butter and Olive Oil.....changed my lifting life forever. A jar of natty PB, loafs of whole grain natural bread....slammin time, in between other meals, or as an addition.
 
SouthernCharm

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thanks guys. Ill hede (sp?) your advice before moving on to any PH's...but if my curiosity remains, I'm coming back to the board...
Instead of "leaving" the boards, why don't you keep an updated log of your progress. You can post your workouts day to day, post your diet, and even before and after pictures. This way you get feed back and input on things you are doing good, things you need to change, and what others can relate.

If you're coming here just to learn about cycles, well thats a shame but really you the more you stay on here and read the more you will learn and the less questions youll have.
 

bucannear

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Not sure how to even upload pictures etc. I'll have to figure it out.
 
Prometherion

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I'd recommend more of your protein come from whole foods and have more protein in general. It's not too hard to replace some of those shakes with stuff like tuna, eggs, chicken etc etc.

Tuna really changed things for me lol. Portable, cheap, easy, loads of protein.
 

17amethyl

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to be honest, it sounds like you know you're stuff- you've competed in an organization, have a nice understanding of exercise, diet, supplements, and a nice base regarding knowledge of cycles

the following is all my opinion, based on my experience, and my insight to the relevant information: i'll agree, if putting on mass is your goal, you need to trade some of the "cut" look and look toward more carb dense/fat dense foods (not that your diet isn't on point, it's pretty stellar for bb purposes IMO)...i trained a kid in a similar situation as your's, he was about 6'5, maybe 170, some nice lbm but he was seeking strength and size, something i hope i know something about as the majority of my training revolves around doing strongman when in season and keeping things still heavy in the offseason...

anyhow, when we first spoke his first q was actually about epistane and that he could not put on mass for the past 2 years...his diet was pretty on point as well, though very clean & similar to yours, which is not conducive to building mass...i refused to help him with a cycle initially and he went ahead, did his cycle, put on a shtty 10lbs and lost most of it pct and even got some pretty bad gyno in the process, but thats a different story...anyhow, after his idea failed he actually listened to me, he ate meals with me and saw what i ate...over the course of 13 months, he reached a comfortable 210 by only increasing his bf about 2%...typically that much weight gain is unusual in the given time frame naturally, but understand he had no idea how to eat towards his goal, prior to that he only understood how to eat lean, look lean, etc...the point to denote is food, and the right food, was exponentially stronger than his dissapointing cycle

i think a person your general size should be toying with roughly 3500-4k cals minimum ed for bulk (that may seem harsh but stranding at 5'10 about 230 maybe 14% bf and an OK metabolism, i need about 5k cals ed to flat out put on mass), i understand you may not want to necessarily "bulk" given its the season to hit the beach, but be willing to make some trade-offs as i am sure you are...when you hit the carbs, hit them HARD, a nice mix of simple and complex carbs...one suggestion i would make is 1-2 hours pre-workout, throw in a full bowl of pasta with olive oil (and some reasonably healthy cheese on top, if you like cheese)...you would be surprised how effective such a carb-dense meal before a workout will contribute to sustained energy which contributes to strength--> translates to size...think with this mindset, keep the clean basic elements of your diet, but build upon it with the necessary elements to fuel growth which i believe is carbs and fats...if need be, cycle the carbs on your heavy days so as to sidestep excessive bloat or unnecessary fat gain

another point, you are training 5 days a week on a consistent basis as well as throwing in some useful cardio...this is all kosher, but ask yourself- are you overtraining? not necessarily in the sense that you are damaging muscle faster than you are rebuilding, but it seems that your intense training, coupled with your metabolism means you are burning calories faster than they are being partitioned to your muscles...in simple terms, consider training 3-5 days a week, tweek ur split, consider doing less volume (as increased volume- not sure of ur rep range etc means burning more cals)...something like DC training, for building muscle and strength, i like to do less working sets per bodypart, 2-3 but HEAVY and to full intensity, in this sense you will be in the gym less time which could equate to burning less calories and we know caloric excess= mass, you will also potentially be doing more work in less time, less days a week...which means burning less calories throughout the week and more recovery, this again contributes to mass...perhaps consider doing less intense cardio fewer days a week so as to retain more calories, it sounds as if you're metabolism is a btch so putting on fat should not be much of a concern and if it does, up the cardio when necessary

alright, now that i finished lecturing ur brain off haha...sorry...i would STRONGLY advise to experiment with your diet for 1-2 months, because if you are not growing off your new diet alone, the epi will barely help you put on much permanent size, maybe some strength but thats aboot it...if you put on some lbs over the duration of this period, it shows that you are fueling your body with the ish it needs to grow, maybe in this time frame experiment with creatine loading if u have not already done so, it helps...then i think you may be ready if time is a constraint and you need to jump into things for a comp. or whatever it may be...once again, ill iterate to be patient and take as long as u need before f'n with hormones

since you are prone to gyno, i would strongly advise to stray from things such as oral "tren" or any of its 19-nor variations...this hormone could induce a type of gyno that is not readily corrected with a SERM, other options for your goals and conditions could be havoc, hdrol/pmag (though this can be a pain in the @ss to put on dense size with your metabolism as the gains are usually gradual and very lean...pplex or mdrol are also options, though they typically are not a "first" cycle and pplex does have some estrogenic effects to my knowledge (which shouldnt be a concern with a serm on hand)...bold is also one that may be suitable to your goals though consider it needs to be run for long durations and shutdown is intense....i think epistane is nearly perfect considering its your first cycle and your goal is to lean bulk, IMO stick with that...begin lining up all your support supps and PCT now i.e. a SERM, strong test booster, and preferably some pre-workout creatine blend such as your jack3d to help retain gains post cycle

i hope all my blabberin helped...you seem like a str8 forward person looking for a str8 forward answer and the way you presented your problem was very modest and hopefully you will get some useful inputs
 

bucannear

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17a methyl. I really appreciate the detailed input. One thing I have hard a hard time juggling, and this may ound stupid, but when I up my carb intake and lower my cardio, I gain fat solely on my stomach and lower back, while barely noticing any significant bulk gain anywhere else. Any suggestions for a good balance to that?

I'd be up for mixing your advice with the other dudes and maybe upping my food intake and keep a thread to track my weight gain before umping into a PH.

Again, I realy apreciate the input. I think the two biggest problems for me is my body body is lanky and long and lean and while I have some muscle, I'd like to fill a medium t-shirt and still look jacked haha.

The thing is w/ my job its so hard to eat constantly. I pre cook on Sunday nights and seperate foods into containers and carry it around all day, but what i cook now is already tough enough, nevemind adding more....

Any tips?
 
SouthernCharm

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The thing is w/ my job its so hard to eat constantly. I pre cook on Sunday nights and seperate foods into containers and carry it around all day, but what i cook now is already tough enough, nevemind adding more....

Any tips?



Realistically, I am unable to evenly break down 4000 calories into X amount of meals. I think meal timing is nowhere near as important as having the right amount of macros before your body goes to sleep. Because it is after all while we are asleep that our body regenerates what we have lost and builds on.
 

17amethyl

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17a methyl. I really appreciate the detailed input. One thing I have hard a hard time juggling, and this may ound stupid, but when I up my carb intake and lower my cardio, I gain fat solely on my stomach and lower back, while barely noticing any significant bulk gain anywhere else. Any suggestions for a good balance to that?

I'd be up for mixing your advice with the other dudes and maybe upping my food intake and keep a thread to track my weight gain before umping into a PH.

Again, I realy apreciate the input. I think the two biggest problems for me is my body body is lanky and long and lean and while I have some muscle, I'd like to fill a medium t-shirt and still look jacked haha.

The thing is w/ my job its so hard to eat constantly. I pre cook on Sunday nights and seperate foods into containers and carry it around all day, but what i cook now is already tough enough, nevemind adding more....

Any tips?
no problem...that was a meaty post sorry i couldn't condense it more...i understand your issue with gaining fat in only certain areas, the body instinctively stores fat around the waist in those areas to create a cushion/chamber for energy if ever forced to go into survival mode...its a b!tch and i always get a nice floaty tube of fat during the winter when going into an all out bulk

i wish i could give a solid and logical solution to that issue, but to be honest i'm not an expert at keeping a tight lower stomach/back area...i take solace in being able to just see faint definition on my stomach so long as i am retaining the size i desire...i notice however that complex carbs and sugars are the culprit for me as may be with u also...things i do to edge back on those areas would be russian twists to tighten up the obliques and love handles, lower back xtensions really build the erectae spinae for me (not sure if you do dl, in my hayday where i was able to dl at least once every other week i had the tightest core, now i have 2 slipped discs so i sorta take it easy), and you know, use an adaptive mentality and though it sounds gay, even arnold said to visualize your body as a sculpture...if this unwanted fat is coming on, up the cardio accordingly, sculpt the fat away in that area...once its subdued to the point you desire, lay off the cardio a bit and let the cals accumulate again and allow the bulk to go to the desired spots

i can definately sympathize with you though, training that one kid was a f'n btch...being that tall and lanky not only makes it difficult to put on mass, but he also accumulated fat in odd and unsightly areas in the bulking process, not to mention his body mechanics did not suit many of the big and important lifts...so i feel for u...keep experimenting with different methods and im sure more people will chime in with useful tips

as for food at work...i'm a simple guy and the majority of my meals are consumed via protein bars or pre-packaged pb&j sandwhiches, almonds (great source of lean fats and carbs), cottage cheese (slow digestion is key for work)...as i said though i am not the leanest person and these suggestions may not be the cleanest, but it makes due to suit my goal of a constant "lean" bulk...i personally can not trim bf and build mass at the same time naturally, such awesomeness only comes with well detailed cycles for me...naturally i have to chose and say, am i bulking, cutting, or just maintaining, get the bulk basics down- allow urself to gain some lbs and the cycle- when ready will deliver the desired results

many of these hormones anyway improve cardiovas. performance and aid in trimming visceral fat to my knowledge as well...so being "on" will help keep the fat gain at bay while upping the cals and accumulating mass...just see what methods work best for u meantime
 

bucannear

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This is all great. I think Ill stick with my regime for the summer, cause Im diggin my sixer, and then Ill bulk up come September. In the meantime that will give me a chance t do some research and experiment with foods condusive to m body type and maybe I cna formulate a solid meal plan and exercise regime based on feed back and trial and error....I apreciate the time, I know alot of dudes dont have the patience for some of the more simplistic proposals I laid out there. Youre the man.
 

reptone

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All good advice. I`ll add:Get rid of the MCT oil. Dump some olive oil in your shakes. Good fat and you won`t taste it. Use whole milk instead of almond milk.Maybe even some ice cream in your shakes. Add more whole food protein(hard boiled eggs are easy and GREAT protein). Add a can of tuna a day. Also consider an anti cortisol product. Sounds like you have a cortisol issue that is storing fat around your midsection. Also cut down on the cardio for a month and see if you gain some quality weight. Maybe an HGH product which will also help you sleep(that`s when you grow). Good luck and stick around. You can learn so much by just reading here.
 
triton185

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I could not imagine eating 4000 calories a day..............I would be one FAT motherf*cker!!!
 
triton185

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Sorry, didn't mean to bust in with some totally useless message.....
 
SouthernCharm

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I could not imagine eating 4000 calories a day..............I would be one FAT motherf*cker!!!
Sorry, didn't mean to bust in with some totally useless message.....
Its all good! Each individual is different. I have a buddy who eats about 45-4700 calories and if he hits 4000 he cuts LOL CRAZY!!
 

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