- 05-15-2004, 05:18 PM
i heard liquidex is good for pct and stopping estrogen, but i cant find much information on it, or other research chems for that matter, how much should be taken and when?
the cycle below is what i plan to use it in
1-12 enth 500mg
1-4 30mg dbol
1-14 10mg nolv
14 300mg clomid first day (day 1 wk 14)
wk 14 day 2+ 100mg for a week
15 - 17 50mg the rest of the time
mix in 20mg of nolv on pct
- 05-15-2004, 11:43 PM
05-16-2004, 03:05 AM
From the swales postOriginally Posted by map200uk
SWALES PCT protocolI like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).
05-16-2004, 04:00 AM
Don't run the nolva during the cycle and you'll get much better gains. If you're concerned with estro sides, run the dex and save the nolva for pct or if gyno symptoms show up.
05-16-2004, 04:12 AM
05-16-2004, 04:19 AM
Yes run the nolva throughout and for PCT, and don't bother with the liquidex unless you are noticeably bloated and you can't stand it. After dosing Liquidex you will notice a huge difference in bloat overnight, if Arimidex is anything like Letro. Man, letro is some good stuff.
05-16-2004, 04:57 AM
too good for me. I stil have a bunch that I haven't used (bunch being a realitive term). It will dry me out like noones biz even at 1mg ED. Letro is supose to be stronger then ldex though. for myself I just use nolva now or nolva and proviron if I am running dbloat or the like.Originally Posted by supersoldier
05-16-2004, 01:16 PM
I guess i just don't understand why you want to run nolva during cycle unless you know for sure that you'll get gyno. Even then, a good AI should keep estro levels low enough to minimize the risk. My thinking is that if estro is your enemy then attack it at the source (aromatase activity) not the symptom.
If i'm not making sense, let me know...
05-16-2004, 01:48 PM
Estrogen is NOT your enemy. Estrogen is a necessary hormone that your body doesn't do well with out. It incresses gains (debatable, but tell it to bigcat). It keeps your lipids in check. AI are too good at what they do, letro for instance can not only dry you out but give you hot flashes, letro dick, and bad lipids.Originally Posted by sikdogg
There are several reason you want to run nolvadex with your cycle.
1. prevent gyno from even starting. As cheap as it is and with as few sides and lots of benifets why wait for the sysptom of a problem to show up? If you were working around dangerous bacteria would you not take a preventive antibodidic or would you wait to show symptoms first before starting it.
2. Positive results on lipids. Helps keep your cholesterol down.
3 Helps a little on the bloat.
05-16-2004, 07:17 PM
05-16-2004, 07:39 PM
I didn't mean to say that estro is the enemy, generally speaking. I meant that it was your enemy if your highly prone to gyno.Originally Posted by Skye
Regarding your point about nolva, I guess i get what you're saying...
05-16-2004, 10:52 PM
05-18-2004, 08:32 AM
so running dex during a cycle would be a good idea?
Ive read that since it blocks estrogen it can really hurt your gains .. but at the same time .. id rather be safe.
I am running a test cyp + EQ + dbol cycle (classic bread and butter.. just without deca) and considering using dex during most of the cycle... suggestions?
05-18-2004, 08:34 AM
05-18-2004, 12:33 PM
I prefer to run an AI all thru my cycle as it prevents bloat and gives me leaner gains. I also find that i don't gain as much weight while on-cycle, but keep most of it after pct.
05-18-2004, 02:16 PM
I would only use it while your on the dbol, and that only if you need it. If your looking for protection from gyno there is nothing better then nolvadex, period. Simple take 20mg EOD and you will be fine. There is something wrong when the cheapest, safest, and most reliable anti e is the last one people will chose sometimes.Originally Posted by spoofy
BigCat does believes that repressing the estrogen is not to your benifet while swales recomends running an AI thorughout the cycle. These two pretty well represent the differnt thoughts on this. I wonder if the truth is not equaldistant for the extreams. So for myself I use a AI as needed only to keep the bloat down when running things that I know will cause me to keep a lot of water. (so far that is just Dbol and prop combo or Dbol only)
This is of course JMO
05-18-2004, 02:38 PM
I don't think that both swale and bigcat are really that far off from each other as an AI doesn't suppress estro at all. It simply suppresses aromatization of test to estro. Any estro that your body produces naturally or is already flowing thru your system will not be affected by an AI.
05-18-2004, 03:07 PM
I was under the impression that men produce estrogen primarily by aromatization. I don't think we have any other sorce for it.
05-18-2004, 04:27 PM
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