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    short cycle


    havent been on here for a while
    well im planning on doing a 4 week cycle of test prop and 100mg eod for 300mg per week. i want to stack it with epistane since i have had success with it already and know how my body reacts to it. the reason why i chose prop is because the short acting ester will allow me to bail on the cycle as quick as possible if any sides should occur this is my first injectable cycle. the epistane will hopefully cancel out most NOT ALL estrogen and hopefully keep it lean gains. pct will be 4 weeks and i will be taking liquid nolva for 20/20/20/20.
    my pct with ph usually consist of a t-booster. do you guys think i should add one just to help give an extra kick in natural test production

    p.s -i know that thats not an ideal length for a cycle but since this is my first i just wanna test the waters and see how my body reacts without to much sides

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    oh and i am aware that prop isnt the best choice for first time but i dont want a long acting ester cause if side do show up i would have to wait 2 weeks to start pct
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    anybody have any input
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    bump
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    First off you need to give it time for people to respond before you keep bumping the thread.

    Second, you usually dont start to see any gains with prop until the 4th week. You are really selling yourself short here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymaddict20 View Post
    First off you need to give it time for people to respond before you keep bumping the thread.

    Second, you usually dont start to see any gains with prop until the 4th week. You are really selling yourself short here.
    sorry for that just anxious for replies.

    ive seen threads where people were gaining weight on the first week granted that it might be water weight but theve even had waist size reduction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    the epistane will hopefully cancel out most NOT ALL estrogen and hopefully keep it lean gains.
    I would not count on this at all. Epi does not work like that. I would recommend running test solo your first time not stacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    my pct with ph usually consist of a t-booster. do you guys think i should add one just to help give an extra kick in natural test production
    Yes use SA with PCT.


    As for your overall cycle, I understand the apprehension about "movign to the darkside" but I would still advise against running a cycle thats probably not goign to yield any results and involves alot of risk taking.

    If you start having estro related side effects you absolutely do NOT have to wait 2 weeks to start taking something. I myself run an AI and/or a SERM along side test e for my cycle because im estro sensitive.


    Honesly bro, and im not bashing, i dont think you are ready yet. You just signed up last month. Take the summer to browse this site and ask questions. People will help you set up and safe and effective cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    I would not count on this at all. Epi does not work like that. I would recommend running test solo your first time not stacking.



    Yes use SA with PCT.


    As for your overall cycle, I understand the apprehension about "movign to the darkside" but I would still advise against running a cycle thats probably not goign to yield any results and involves alot of risk taking.

    If you start having estro related side effects you absolutely do NOT have to wait 2 weeks to start taking something. I myself run an AI and/or a SERM along side test e for my cycle because im estro sensitive.


    Honesly bro, and im not bashing, i dont think you are ready yet. You just signed up last month. Take the summer to browse this site and ask questions. People will help you set up and safe and effective cycle.
    no offense taken man. i signed up like i think last year. i just havent been on. ive been on bb.com. ive been researching alot on prohormones and touched here and there on aas. was reading seriously for 3 months but then backed out cause i was scared of the unknown lol
    well originally i was planning on running the cycle for 8 weeks. seeing that it was a more realistic cycle but there was a thread that was talking about aas and saying that short cycles= less gains= less sides and i can rebound faster with less supression.
    i was gonna run a-dex throughout the 8 week cycle but i figured if i follow those rules on the thread i wouldnt need and AI and that a SERM would be sufficient enough. thanx for the advice im not gonna run it any time soon i just want to figure everything out b4 so i dont just buy the stuff and then ask what do i do

    oh and im not really estro sensitive well at least not with ph
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    no offense taken man. i signed up like i think last year. i just havent been on. ive been on bb.com. ive been researching alot on prohormones and touched here and there on aas. was reading seriously for 3 months but then backed out cause i was scared of the unknown lol
    well originally i was planning on running the cycle for 8 weeks. seeing that it was a more realistic cycle but there was a thread that was talking about aas and saying that short cycles= less gains= less sides and i can rebound faster with less supression.
    i was gonna run a-dex throughout the 8 week cycle but i figured if i follow those rules on the thread i wouldnt need and AI and that a SERM would be sufficient enough. thanx for the advice im not gonna run it any time soon i just want to figure everything out b4 so i dont just buy the stuff and then ask what do i do

    oh and im not really estro sensitive well at least not with ph
    Lol - my bad about the join date. I saw april and figured last month.

    Anyway, yes the short cycle has its place but with test prop an 8 weeker offers exponentially greater benefits with little more risk. Even with the 4 weeker you are shutting down the HPTA. Also I recommend having an AI and a SERM on hand, just in case.

    Keep me posted on what you decide. The 4 weeker won't be too detrimental but you might be disappointed.
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    (what they said) + I wouldnt count on epi to "control" estrogen.... not even a little- its a pro- steroid not an AI or serm. The cases in which people use it to control gyno havnt been proved, and IMO much of that comes from just lowering your bf through a recomp diet and epi.

    GL though, ill be watching
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/250421-trestobol-epi-6-a.html
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    Just to add, 100mg EOD is 350 a week. you'll have 7 injections of 100mg every 14 days. And you can start to see prop gains by the end of first week, but it won't be much. You'll still be breaking the law and going through the headaches of a test cycle without really maximizing benefits. Do the 8 weeks, forget the epi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    Lol - my bad about the join date. I saw april and figured last month.

    Anyway, yes the short cycle has its place but with test prop an 8 weeker offers exponentially greater benefits with little more risk. Even with the 4 weeker you are shutting down the HPTA. Also I recommend having an AI and a SERM on hand, just in case.

    Keep me posted on what you decide. The 4 weeker won't be too detrimental but you might be disappointed.
    will do with the AI and SERM that was the plan anyways. do you think i should save the AI or run it with the 8week and and continue planned pct.
    will keep you posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by justeat View Post
    (what they said) + I wouldnt count on epi to "control" estrogen.... not even a little- its a pro- steroid not an AI or serm. The cases in which people use it to control gyno havnt been proved, and IMO much of that comes from just lowering your bf through a recomp diet and epi.

    GL though, ill be watching
    good point about the epi i figured since it was a lean bulk that it would help dissapate water retention with the test.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Just to add, 100mg EOD is 350 a week. you'll have 7 injections of 100mg every 14 days. And you can start to see prop gains by the end of first week, but it won't be much. You'll still be breaking the law and going through the headaches of a test cycle without really maximizing benefits. Do the 8 weeks, forget the epi.
    well i wasnt gonna inject on weekend just mon,wed,fri or skip fri and shoot sat. or do you think i should just shoot eod?
    epi has been forgotten

    also i would expect that i wont have a high conversion seeing that it is quite a low dose and it runs through your system pretty quick. but.......do you guys think i should lower the dose or just keep it the same.
    ive read about people using the first half of the cycle for a bulk and the last half for a cut. what do you guys think about it. IF that is a good idea any dosage recommendations?
    or do you guys recommend a different test all together?

    thnx for all the help so far guys much appreciated
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    hey bro - i think the general consensus is to do 8 weeks test pro and drop the epi. As far as the on cycle AI, start the cycle without the AI and if you get nipple sensitivity or excessive bloating then add it in, tritrate onto the dose.
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    for the AI i was thinking if i do run it on cycle i could dose it at .5mg eod or
    e3d? should it be ran through the pct also?
    and if you guys do recommend to cut for the last half of the cycle should i drop the dose to 75mg eod

    sorry for the bombardment of Q's
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    Really tapering is more valuable with higher doses of longer ester products. Prop is all out of your system in 4-5 days tops, so not quite as important. Plus in general gains start to slow towards the end, so lowering it would just make it worse
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    hey bro - i think the general consensus is to do 8 weeks test pro and drop the epi. As far as the on cycle AI, start the cycle without the AI and if you get nipple sensitivity or excessive bloating then add it in, tritrate onto the dose.
    8 week cycle it is then man. epi is gone.

    what about the half bulk half cut?

    if so it would look like this bulk only cycle

    weeks 1-8
    100mg test prop eod
    AI arimadex (anastrozole) .5mg eod if needed
    4 week pct- nolva 20mg ed

    if half bulk and half cut would look like this
    weeks 1-4
    100mg test prop eod
    weeks 5-8
    75mg test prop eod
    AI would be a must for last half
    pct remains the same
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Really tapering is more valuable with higher doses of longer ester products. Prop is all out of your system in 4-5 days tops, so not quite as important. Plus in general gains start to slow towards the end, so lowering it would just make it worse
    oh lol forget my last post then about the half cut half bulk.
    do you think the AI should be ran throught the whole cycle just to be safe
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    Really bulking or cutting is based on calories in plus cardio, not how much in anabolics you use. I'd only run an AI thru cycle if i needed it, all the compounds you put in your mouth have side effects, so using only what you need is best. Arimidex lowers IGF levels, plus causes some small amount of liver strain. Why bother if you don't have excessive estrogen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    oh lol forget my last post then about the half cut half bulk.
    do you think the AI should be ran throught the whole cycle just to be safe
    No offense bro but you really need to spend some time using the search function and look this stuff up. On AM we will answer your questions and help you but you have to research first. This isnt like bb.com where everyone is spoon fed.

    Spend some time doing research and then post your questions
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Really bulking or cutting is based on calories in plus cardio, not how much in anabolics you use. I'd only run an AI thru cycle if i needed it, all the compounds you put in your mouth have side effects, so using only what you need is best. Arimidex lowers IGF levels, plus causes some small amount of liver strain. Why bother if you don't have excessive estrogen?
    point taken
    Quote Originally Posted by gymaddict20 View Post
    No offense bro but you really need to spend some time using the search function and look this stuff up. On AM we will answer your questions and help you but you have to research first. This isnt like bb.com where everyone is spoon fed.

    Spend some time doing research and then post your questions
    none taken man.
    it just at bb they took the anabolics thread out so i cant get questions answered over there
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    1 more question
    what do you guys think i would average in gains from this cycle (ball park estimate)
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    1 more question
    what do you guys think i would average in gains from this cycle (ball park estimate)
    That will depend on the individual and your diet. Everyone is different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    1 more question
    what do you guys think i would average in gains from this cycle (ball park estimate)
    You could easily see 10-15 lbs but you need to get your diet right and it depends on how far you've pushed your own genetic matrix.
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    start logging your calories and meals now so you can see what your average diet is (calories, macros of protein, carbs, and fat). You can search the nutritional info online for unpackaged food. Once you start seeing trends in your diet you can fine tune them, and get ready for the hardcore on cycle diet. Even if you try to remember what you eat it will always be more effective to have it on paper... just like workout logs
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/250421-trestobol-epi-6-a.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by justeat View Post
    start logging your calories and meals now so you can see what your average diet is (calories, macros of protein, carbs, and fat). You can search the nutritional info online for unpackaged food. Once you start seeing trends in your diet you can fine tune them, and get ready for the hardcore on cycle diet. Even if you try to remember what you eat it will always be more effective to have it on paper... just like workout logs
    i take in about 3000cals i eat every 3 hours its about 50/30/20
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    if your still at 183 lbs... try to take it up to a clean 3500+ if you really wanna see some nice gains. I just ran a cycle (link below) and started right around the weight as you. I took in 4000+ a day and gained a pretty lean 15 lbs.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/250421-trestobol-epi-6-a.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by justeat View Post
    if your still at 183 lbs... try to take it up to a clean 3500+ if you really wanna see some nice gains. I just ran a cycle (link below) and started right around the weight as you. I took in 4000+ a day and gained a pretty lean 15 lbs.
    ive been thinking about upping my cals specially for the cycle. ill check out the link right now.
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    well been doing a bit more research and ive been reading that doin injections ed will have less sides cause it will keep the blood levels more stable. what do you guys think?

    mainly has less acne im not really acne prone but dont want to take the chance.
    ed injections will need more sites.
    will be using 20g 1.5 needles to draw 23g 1.5 needles to shoot. or do you guys think i should use 25g to shoot.
    P.S need help with the injection sites need like 7 or 8 for ed
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    ok well my source might not be able to get prop.

    so what other test would you guys reccommend? and at what dosage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by justeat View Post
    start logging your calories and meals now so you can see what your average diet is (calories, macros of protein, carbs, and fat). You can search the nutritional info online for unpackaged food. Once you start seeing trends in your diet you can fine tune them, and get ready for the hardcore on cycle diet. Even if you try to remember what you eat it will always be more effective to have it on paper... just like workout logs
    You must spread some reputation around before giving it to justeat again.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    well been doing a bit more research and ive been reading that doin injections ed will have less sides cause it will keep the blood levels more stable. what do you guys think?

    mainly has less acne im not really acne prone but dont want to take the chance.
    ed injections will need more sites.
    will be using 20g 1.5 needles to draw 23g 1.5 needles to shoot. or do you guys think i should use 25g to shoot.
    P.S need help with the injection sites need like 7 or 8 for ed
    Dont know where you read this but not true. There is no literature that supports test prop yielding fewer sides than test e.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    You must spread some reputation around before giving it to justeat again.



    Dont know where you read this but not true. There is no literature that supports test prop yielding fewer sides than test e.
    if i can find the link to the threads ill post.
    it was just less acne that they notice when pinned ed instead of eod
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    if i can find the link to the threads ill post.
    it was just less acne that they notice when pinned ed instead of eod
    I meant science literature and I think what they were talking about is for a short-acting ester, like test prop, then for that cmpd alone ED versus EOD yields more stable levels (less sides). But I would NOT say that test prop yields less sides than test e or test cyp. AND you could if you wanted inject test e ED if you really wanted to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    I meant science literature and I think what they were talking about is for a short-acting ester, like test prop, then for that cmpd alone ED versus EOD yields more stable levels (less sides). But I would NOT say that test prop yields less sides than test e or test cyp. AND you could if you wanted inject test e ED if you really wanted to.
    i dont remember mentioning test e? if i did sorry for the confusion i was just talking about prop. so ed would be better than?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmfws185 View Post
    i dont remember mentioning test e? if i did sorry for the confusion i was just talking about prop. so ed would be better than?
    Maybe i misinterpreted your question, my apologies. I thought you were saying shorter esters were lower sides.
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    Its cool man. Just kinda threw me a curve ball there I was confused for a bit. So like I said would ed be better than eod for keeping blood levels more stable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    if you really wanted to.
    I've done it with cyp, and JanSz here does it with e at HRT doses
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I've done it with cyp, and JanSz here does it with e at HRT doses
    Cool. Yeah i personally dont mind the process so i guess why not ED.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    Cool. Yeah i personally dont mind the process so i guess why not ED.
    because its a pain in the ass, quads, delts and bis
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    because its a pain in the ass, quads, delts and bis
    lol - progress=pain - just suck it up
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    would pinning test e and cyp ed still have the same result?

    how many times a day would you have to pin test suspension to keep blood levels stable?
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