Tamoxifen Citrate- should we be taking more?

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  1. Tamoxifen Citrate- should we be taking more?


    I found this page on nolva...

    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tamox.htm

    And it states that a 20mg nolva pill actually contains 30.4mg on nolva, which then converts to a different chemical. Therefore, if a bodybuilder took 40mg of nolva pills, he would actually be ingesting 60.8mgs of tamoxifen citrate. My question is, do the liquid nolvas available work the same way, in that a 20mg/ml product actually contains 30.4mgs of nolva? If not, should we actually be taking 60mgs of liquid nolva to get the effect of 40mgs of pills?


  2. The actual part of the tamoxifen citrate molecule that is active in estrogen blocking is the tamoxifen. I believe that the citrate is added to both stabilize the tamoxifen and act as buffer for it in the stomach, but I'm not positive. I'm pretty confident that all of the liquid research products out are standardized to 20 mg/mL of tamoxifen citrate, not pure tamoxifen. So, that would mean that your logic in saying that we should be taking 60 mg. of the tamoxifen citrate to get 40 mg. of the tamoxifen is correct!

    I'd never thought of it this way, but I'm not sure whether or not the liquid research companies have taken in this into consideration. I'll PM this is custom and see what his repsonse is.

    Nice find hypo.
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  3. Thank You Perhaps if this is true upping the dosage would help a little to hold on to gains made by many of the popular PHs that work great but don't retain very well, since most of the people on this board use liquid products for PCT.

  4. It seems the common dose is to start out with 40 mg. I think starting the first week like 80, 80, 60, 60, 40 ... could be beneficial. Just to give more of a jumpstart. Who knows?

  5. Bump for more input on this. It all sounds logical to me.
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  6. Read this!
    It is the Tamoxifen that we are using not the Citrate of that. 61mg in liquid form should yeild approximately 40 mgs of tamoxifen. Just multiply the dosage that is desired by 1.52 and that will give you the required liquid form needed if the purity is pretty near that of the prescribed type.

    note that a 10mg tab contains 15.2 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate which converts to 10 mg of tamoxifen and that a 20mg tab contains 30.4 and converts to 20.

    Also note that there was no indication that doses greater then 20mg were any more effective. Keep in mind that these are 5 yr studies and for treatment of breast cancer, not for the recreational uses we are needing it for.

    It also interesting that they noted that tamoxifen reduces letro concentrations by 37% when co administered.

    db
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. ok so any word from custom about this?

  8. All i know is one my first m1t cycle i did the 40 mg for a week then moved down to 20mg a day and i lost tons of gains...this time im not taking chances...80 mg for first week then 60 one week and 40 the rest of the way..its not like it will kill me....haha

  9. Quote Originally Posted by hypo
    I found this page on nolva...

    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tamox.htm

    And it states that a 20mg nolva pill actually contains 30.4mg on nolva, which then converts to a different chemical. Therefore, if a bodybuilder took 40mg of nolva pills, he would actually be ingesting 60.8mgs of tamoxifen citrate. My question is, do the liquid nolvas available work the same way, in that a 20mg/ml product actually contains 30.4mgs of nolva? If not, should we actually be taking 60mgs of liquid nolva to get the effect of 40mgs of pills?
    Your math is correct. My only question is when and how was the popular dosage regimen devised?

    If it was devised by BBers who were originally using the tablets, then when using the liquid one would have to adjust upwards as you suggest.

    Greenguy

  10. Quote Originally Posted by propho
    ok so any word from custom about this?
    Yeah, he is talking to his supplier to double check everything.

  11. well, as tamoxifen citrate is for female cancer patients, i dont believe the dosage regimen was devised with the bodybuilder in mind...and i'm pretty sure when the research companies measure out the gram or whatever of tamoxifen citrate to put into the solution, they do not take into account that it takes 60.8mg of tamoxifen citrate to get 40mg of the actual tamoxifen that we want. now, if the supplier used crushed pills to make the liquid nolva, there wouldnt be a problem, but i'm pretty sure the suppliers are buying the powder in bulk, measuring out a gram and putting it in solution...so they are measuring out the weight of the tamoxifen plus the citrate...

  12. bump for an answer

  13. bump... any word?

  14. I can tell you guys that for my PCT after this M1T cycle I decided to do Nolva at 80mg a day for the first week and I have not lost weight or size as of yet.
    My last cycle where I did 40-40-20-10 I had lost about a pound by now. Seems that the 80mg works, for me at least.
    Just my experience.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by hypo
    bump... any word?
    He answered it in another thread. Yup it's 20mgs of tamoxifen citrate so double up on your dosages.

  16. Guess I'll be upping my dosages then. Are there any adverse effects to using too much nolva? If so, what is the mg threshold?

  17. give a link to that thread he answered it in

  18. Quote Originally Posted by realsoundjim
    give a link to that thread he answered it in
    http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...9&postcount=97

  19. This is really good info. Thanks hypo.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by ersatz
    He answered it in another thread. Yup it's 20mgs of tamoxifen citrate so double up on your dosages.
    Actually, it's roughly 1.5x your normal dosage. If you take 60mg of liquid tamoxifen citrate, you get just barely over 40mg of tamoxifen.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Longdog
    Actually, it's roughly 1.5x your normal dosage. If you take 60mg of liquid tamoxifen citrate, you get just barely over 40mg of tamoxifen.
    Seems as though a great majority including me got theirs from cnw. In this case if my pct of M1T/4AD with tamoxifen citrate was:

    Week 1 - 40
    Week 2 - 40
    Week 3 - 30
    Week 4 - 20

    I would multiply my dosage by roughly 1.5?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by raylewis
    Seems as though a great majority including me got theirs from cnw. In this case if my pct of M1T/4AD with tamoxifen citrate was:

    Week 1 - 40
    Week 2 - 40
    Week 3 - 30
    Week 4 - 20

    I would multiply my dosage by roughly 1.5?
    That is correct so it would break down to:

    Week 1 - 60mg or 3ml/day
    Week 2 - 60mg or 3ml/day
    Week 3 - 45mg or 2.25ml/day
    Week 4 - 30mg or 1.5ml/day

  23. This is my 1st PH cycle and I do have my tamoxifen citrate in hand. Thanks to all for breaking down this info.

    I'd like to hear from anyone that's done multiple cycles that have taken the traditional #'s post cycle and then upped their dose of tamoxifen citrate the 2nd time around. If all things being equal, was pct any different? A better hold on lean body mass?

    This thread may be too new for anyone to up the dose based on the above info but I did read someone who upped their pct dose 1st week up to 80 and kept good gains.

  24. Would these new dosages also hold true for liquid clomid?

  25. http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clomiph.htm

    don't believe you have to worry about clomid.
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