first i would like to say thanks for the input! so what i'm getting here is one person tried it and it worked, one person tried it and it got worse,(sigh i tried to avoid this with my original post) and the classic im a dumb a** and there is no way this could of happend to me if i wasn't a dumb a** and did more research... i researched for month's for my first cycle. the acl tren in my belief that that stuff was spiked..lol most of those threads are just full of narsissistic parrots calling the guys retards and not trying to help them! i did a proper pct and guess what i have a slight case. and if you read as many threads as i did you will see the advice on what, and how much to take, changes constantly! and most of the research papers are not constant 1 paper says a given thing will help, and a day later one comes out and says that was untrue, it will harm you! or maybe my research pct was not what they told me it was i dont know? whats done is done.. and i know your smarter than all the rest of us in the thread but please point your finger of justice in another direction!!! i just want advice, not insults, or a daddy figure telling me i should have known better.