First Post!!! But not new... Questions for You?
05-06-2004 03:01 AM
First Post!!! But not new... Questions for You?
Alright, this is my first post here, but I'm deffinately not new, I've been reading the great info here for a quite a while now and finally decided to chime in and get some input. I first gotta say that I like this board compared to most because the moderation is light and reasonable, therfor allowing issues to be further explored without restriction be it of the product pushing pursuasion or just over paranioa. Ok, so down to business. I'll give you a little background first. I've been working out steady for about 8-9 months, and have got my routine about where I like it (though it's an ever evolving process) and I'de like to run an effective cycle of some sort for the summer. I've done the pro-hormone thing, well supposedly more "pro-steroid" M1T with little if any gains, and I've run clen alt. with ECA for cut etc. But I'de like to use something with a little more umph in the muscle enhancement catagory. I've got a couple options available to me but it's a matter of deciding what will best suite my needs at this point. One choice is a little DIY Fina and Test Cyp, although the idea of estrodoil is a little unnerving and Fina dick without test is unacceptable; of course this would be accompanied nolva throughout, I could handle less gains for the protection offered... Another thing that I have been considering is 4AD Cyp and 4ohn Deca, both inj. as the 4ohn deca is already used elsewhere in the world as an anabolic, albiet in cyp form and with too low mg/ml to cycle effectively. Third, and most unlikely, I do have local "help" but the prices are probably not optimal and the fact that I like to keep certain things private and to myself, this person not being the type to keep things to themselves I'm quite hesitant to go this route. The third option would save me from getting a P.O., give me more options, and allow mail free delivery though. It's up in the air at this point, as I'm a bit undecided on the best option. I'de love to believe option 2 would yield me great results but I have my doubts. Where would you go on this one?
05-06-2004 04:13 AM
In all honesty, if you have only been "working out steady for about 8-9 months", then you are not ready for anabolics. In fact, I would suggest that you even used prohormones, etc. far to soon.
Learning the basics about training, nutrition, and how your body responds naturally is essential to anyone trying to make gains.
05-06-2004 04:27 AM
Need to do a little more reading bro. and 8 to 9 months is not that much time before jumping into gear. I really shouldn't be talking though. But you need to include more info like height and weight and most important diet.
Ok, M1T is not for beginners nor is a prohormone. It is an actual steriod. It is highly liver toxic and has lots of sides. It does work though. If you didnít see any gains then you should look at you diet, dosage and training.
Originally Posted by GimmePump
First off you donít get test Cyp out of Synovex-H, you get test prop or base. That means EOD for the prop or ED for the base. This would be my choice here although fina is not a good drug to start with. On the plus side though you can ether bulk or cut with this and can run a good 6 week cycle that keeps the sides and pokes to a min. go here to get all the info you need on how to http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15046 I agree on the nolvadex and it does not really effect gains, that is likely just another myth.
One choice is a little DIY Fina and Test Cyp, although the idea of estrodoil is a little unnerving and Fina dick without test is unacceptable; of course this would be accompanied nolva throughout, I could handle less gains for the protection offered...
Designer labs http://www.designersupps.com/catalog/index.php can help you here. Sells the premade and the powders if you want to make something different. Good bro.
Another thing that I have been considering is 4AD Cyp and 4ohn Deca, both inj. as the 4ohn deca is already used elsewhere in the world as an anabolic, albiet in cyp form and with too low mg/ml to cycle effectively.
What can I say but itís always a crap shoot. You take your chances in this game and you could find a good guy or you could get reamed. You can also get 5 to 15 in some states. As for option 2 if your talking about the pellet conversion well that always works. Never heard anyone that said that test/fina didnít work for them. You may not like the side or the effects but it works.
Third, and most unlikely, I do have local "help" but the prices are probably not optimal and the fact that I like to keep certain things private and to myself, this person not being the type to keep things to themselves I'm quite hesitant to go this route. The third option would save me from getting a P.O., give me more options, and allow mail free delivery though. It's up in the air at this point, as I'm a bit undecided on the best option. I'de love to believe option 2 would yield me great results but I have my doubts. Where would you go on this one?
05-06-2004 05:09 AM
Thanks for the good, thoughtfull, response. I know people suggest going natural for the first two years, give or take, but in all honesty many don't, just recommend it. It's all personal choice I guess. The test cyp was a mistype, sorry bout that; but yeah I've been doing lots of research. My diet has been CKD for some time followed to the T. I followed the basic suggested doses fot M1t and used clomid pct. If I got anything from it, it was a little shut down. My weight is 205, 'bout 16-19%bf. but basically, just thought I'de get some opinions, and I'de love to hear any info or experience on esterfied 4ohn usage as I havn't come up with much through my searching efforts. Also wonder how the 4ohn compares to 4oht, I'de assume the "n" more potent but not much to go off of. I noticed you mentioned the sides with the tren + test combo;I'de probably go twice the amount of test compared to tren, whats common as far as overall mood during cycle as well as anything else notable. The input's appreciated...
05-06-2004 06:41 AM
75mg of test base and 50mg fina every would make you grow like a weed but tren does have the sides, tren cough, can make some people short tempered (never did me), pumps and dihydration. Some people ever go as low as 25mg ed or 50mg eod with the tren but I think its a little low.The plus side like I mentioned earlier you can bulk or cut and run for 6 weeks. BTW I am not the person to ask about prohormones as I think that they poor choice (all the side and then some while only moderate gains at best)
05-06-2004 01:26 PM
Yeah, that range is about what I was considering with the test+fina except probably 150 mg test prop 75 mg fina eod. This would minimize injections, making things easier, and could allow me to find a middle ground on the fina dose. How do you guys view the letro + clomid + nolva pct.; do you feel the letro nessacary, or even benificial. by the way, I obviously no access to HCG.
05-06-2004 02:32 PM
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Your not close to being ready. Your not even in the ballpark. I suggest you rethink your options because it you do continue, it won't be recieved well here at all. 8 or 9 months is nothing.
05-06-2004 10:13 PM
hey man, although I do respect the opinion of someone with experiene, I do not agree. My training only got serious about 8 months ago, it's been going on longer though. I'll admit I'm not huge, but I think I'm at a good starting point physically. Thats Ok if you disagree, just looking for some pointers.
Last edited by GimmePump; 05-06-2004 at 11:00 PM.
05-06-2004 11:30 PM
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
I really don't care if you disagree. As an Administrator of this board I am telling you how it is and how we operate. 8 or 9 months training is absultely nothing in this sport. You are not ready mentally or physically and it shows in your posts and questions. That doesn't suggest anything about your intelligence, just your experience.
A good starting point is when you reach your natural limitations. Your not even close.
05-06-2004 11:37 PM
Running with the Big Boys
I have to really agree with Bobo here..
But if you were using your intelligence you would not even be thinking along these lines..
How much Intelligence does it take to realize that you don't need to be jumping into AAS when you have only been training for 8-9 months.. **** my man, you haven't even built a half way decent base. Then, when you get told you might be doing things wrong, you have to Intelligence to tell a very knowledge person, that you don't agree with what he is saying even though he has your best interest at heart.. I really think you need to back up, rethink what you are doing and attempt to do it the correct way..
05-06-2004 11:52 PM
I undertand what your going threw. the guys are right...you should focus on your diet. and training. here is a good article for you to read.
EAT TO GROW
What if I told you your success or failure in the gym has very little to do with what you do in the gym. You would probably look at me like I was crazy. Guess what, nutrition is by far the most important factor to making progress on any fitness program. Why have the so called "experts" made nutrition so confusing? I am going to attempt to take some of the confusion out of this subject and simplify things for you. First, lets start off by getting rid of the word "nutrition" and call it eating.
HOW MUCH SHOULD I BE EATING?
The first determination we need to make is how many calories should we be consuming each day? Unfortunately, everybody does not have the same caloric demands. Therefore, we must come up with a caloric figure to meet your specific demands. To determine what your caloric intake should be, simply take your current body weight and multiply by 12. The number you get will be the amount of calories you need to maintain your current weight (assuming you are training regularly). If you would like to gain weight, simply multiply your current body weight by a factor of 15. If you would like to lose some weight, simply multiply your body weight by a factor of 10. (Example: Maintenance, 200lb male X 12 = 2400 calories per day).
Remember, everybody has a different metabolism. Therefore, you may need to adjust these factors slightly to fit your specific demands. Basically, these figures serve as an ideal starting point to figure out what your personal caloric demands are.
HOW MANY GRAMS OF PROTEIN, CARBOHYDRATES AND FAT?
I am a strong proponent of the high protein, low carbohydrate and low fat way of eating. I even go as far as putting some of my clients on regimens consisting of 60% protein, 30% carbohydrate and 10% fat. For purposes of this article I will suggest that 50% of your calories come from protein, 30% from carbohydrates and 20% from fat. A gram of protein is equal to 4 calories and a gram of carbohydrate is also equal to 4 calories. Each gram of fat is equal to 9 calories. Now, take the above formula and figure out how many grams of protein, carbohydrates and protein you should be consuming each day. (Example: Maintenance, 200lb man requires 2400 calories, 300 grams of protein, 180 grams of carbohydrate, 53 grams of fat).
WHEN DO I EAT MY MEALS?
I suggest that you consume a meal every two and a half to three hours throughout the day. The easiest way to calculate when to eat your meals is to plan it out in advance. Therefore, write down what time it will be three hours from your first meal (breakfast) and then every three hours thereafter. Basically what I am saying is to eat when the clock tells you to, not when your stomach tells you. (Example: If you ate breakfast at 8:00 a.m., your next meals would be at 11:00 a.m., 2:00 p.m., 5:00p.m. and 8:00 p.m.). Attempt to eat each meal using the 50% protein, 30% carbohydrates and 20% fat breakdown. Also, if your caloric demand is roughly 2400 calories per day try to get in about 500 calories at each meal. Eating in this manner makes it very easy to stay disciplined.
WHAT ARE THE BEST THINGS TO EAT?
I guess this one depends upon what you like to eat. Remember, I am trying to make this eating concept easy for you. First, let me give you some examples of what protein, carbohydrates and fats are. Examples of good protein include: red meat, fish, chicken, turkey, milk, eggs and whey. Examples of carbohydrates include: rice, potatoes, breads, grains, fruits and vegetables. Examples of good fats include: flax seed oil, safflower oil, borage seed oil, fish oil, conjugated lineic acid and MCT oil. Obviously there are many more examples of the food groups I have mentioned, however, these are the most common.
Using the foods I have mentioned above in the right quantity would give you all you ever needed to succeed in the gym. The problem is preparing food during your busy day is not convenient. Therefore the solution is using meal replacement powders. These powders come in convenient packs, are easily mixed with water and the nutritional breakdown is great. There are many companies such as Met Rx, Myoplex, Perfect Rx and Rx Fuel which make decent meal replacement s. I highly recommend that you incorporate one of these products into your daily eating program. I suggest eating three regular food meals and two meal replacement s per day. If you are trying to lose weight you may want to eat three meal replacement s and two regular food meals. If you are trying to gain weight you may try eating three regular meals and three or even four meal replacement s.
The most common complaint about eating properly is not having enough time to prepare good meals. We have already discussed the convenience of meal replacement powders, so I will give you some dishes that are easy and enjoyable. I usually start my day off with a bowl of oatmeal mixed with egg whites, a scoop of whey protein powder, and a tablespoon of flaxseed oil. To spice it up I will add apple filling, cinnamon or equal packets. This recipe is quick, easy, tastes good and yields about 50 grams of protein (8 egg whites and one scoop of whey protein), 35 grams of carbs, 14 grams of fat (flaxseed oil) and roughly 500 calories. As you can see, this concoction fits exactly into my nutritional profile.
Another meal I eat frequently for lunch or dinner is a mixture of white rice, boiled egg whites and tuna (chicken may be substituted). I simply cook about 3 oz. of white rice and boil six eggs. I mix the rice together with six egg whites and one yolk. I then add in a can of white chunk tuna, flaxseed oil and some garlic powder (or your favorite spice). This recipe yields about 60 grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs, 15 grams of fat and roughly 500 calories.
THINGS TO AVOID WHEN EATING
NOT GETTING ENOUGH PROTEIN
Protein is essential in your quest to build quality muscle. The question is how much protein should you be consuming? A good rule of thumb is to consume 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. The easiest way to get enough protein into your body is with a good whey protein supplement. In addition to your meals, mix two scoops of whey protein with some water. Also, try to mix up your protein sources throughout the day. For example, eat tuna at one meal, chicken at the next and eggs at the next meal. No matter what you do, consume at least your minimum protein requirement everyday.
NOT GETTING ENOUGH WATER
Try to sip on water constantly throughout the day. Water may be the most underrated piece of the bodybuilding puzzle. As we know, the body is made up of approximately 67% water. Water is desperately needed to cleanse the body and help to regenerate muscle cells. As a rule of thumb, try to consume at least one gallon of water per day.
NOT KEEPING A DAILY JOURNAL
The first thing I tell my bodybuilding clients is to write down everything that goes into their body. Writing down what you eat is the only way to analyze any changes that need to be made for future progress. It is very hard to make changes in your diet if you don't know what time you eat, what kind of protein you eat and how many grams of protein, carbs, fats and calories you are ingesting. The more detailed your log is, the easier it will be for you to go back and analyze it.
TOO MANY SIMPLE CARBOHYDRATES
Yes you need carbohydrates in your body. The question becomes are all carbs created equal. The answer is no. Without getting into too much detail, simple carbs cause a high insulin spike because they have a high glycemic index. This is usually not a good thing when trying to keep fat off of your body. Simple carbs are basically your sugars, sweets and fruits. Try to stick to carbs like potatoes, rice and vegetables. The best time to consume simple carbs is within two hours after training. During this period your muscles are very receptive to simple sugars.
NOT CONSUMING ENOUGH GOOD FAT
Yes, you read that correctly. Fat is not always the enemy. There is nothing wrong with consuming moderate amounts of fat in your diet. In fact, research has shown that fat is essential to growth, recovery, skin and connective tissue. A good rule of thumb is to stay away from hydrogenated oils, "shelf oils" and vegetable oils. These are the fats found in potato chips and snacks. Also, limit your saturated fat intake to that which is found naturally in the protein you eat. Finally, make sure you are getting a sufficient amount of essential fatty acids in your diet. Try to add a tablespoon of flaxseed oil to your protein shakes or meals.
DON'T WAIT ANOTHER MINUTE
What are you doing? You should be looking at the clock to see if it is time to eat again. As I stated earlier, eating is the key to your success or failure in the gym. Once you begin to gain more of an understanding of what your body's demands are, you will be able to customize a more intricate eating plan for yourself. For now, keep a detailed journal and watch your body change for the better
05-07-2004 12:30 AM
buyb12 you read my mind..................
actually i would never have been able to write something like that up... lOl
8-9 months serious training... try 8 years hard, i just started with ph's a few months ago and im taking it to the next level real soon...
05-07-2004 01:02 AM
Well, hey, I do appreciate the advice. After a little thought, I may have to reconsider some things... Didn't mean to sound confrontational, I'm just the type of person that likes to be taken seriously, I do realize you have reasoning behind what you say. all I can say, I guess, is it can get frustrating when gains get slow but I do realize much can be done naturally... No worries, I don't think I'll jump into anything just yet. Good board here though, lots of info... later
05-07-2004 01:15 AM
So you want pointers?
OK if you want pointers and not AAS usage instructions. How about you submit to the board what your real training program consist of on a daily basis? What is your diet looking like? Have you utilized any supplemention? For example creatine, weight gain & protein shakes, multi vitamins, liver tabs. Exhaust all other options before you just jump in. You will be amazed at how much impact tweaking your diet and training will have on your overall physique. In the end it all comes down to you and if you use AAS no one can stop you.
Originally Posted by GimmePump
The Anabolic Minds logo has three words around it LEARN, TEACH and LEAD think about that for sec bro.
05-07-2004 10:12 AM
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
If we didn't take you serisouly we wouldn't have responded at all. Gains are supposed to be slow. That is the way this sport is. Those who have the patience will succeed, those who don't will fail. Realize that this a grudge match that lasts for many many years and no amount of gear will change that.
Originally Posted by GimmePump
05-08-2004 08:18 AM
And @ the age of 21 your test is already running ramped, introducing aas/ph at this age can do more damage then good imho.
05-08-2004 11:37 AM
i'm glad this guys been (somewhat) convinced to steer clear....seriously though, ive never done aas and only 3 cycles of ph....i worked out 5 yrs before i even took protein supplements or creatine...u gotta build up a good base or else any of the gains you even did make on cycle would suck and go away as soon as u dropped the gear. i just saw a kid in the gym the other day....he was about the same size as me 3 months ago...gettin pretty ripped and i was like damn that guy workin hard...then i saw him the other day and i swear my lil brother could take him out. lol...theres alot more to muscles than pills and shots....
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