Question to SETH ROBERTS: Using anti-testosterones before a cycle

[Sub7]

Hi Seth,

I have a question that I would like you to comment on. I am well aware that i am about to get blasted for even posting this and I expect the "you are crazy" comments to come in bunches. However, this is an idea you have inspired with your earlier posts, so I think you are the perfect guy to ask.

In earlier threads you had opined that AAS actually decrease androgen receptor(AR) density in muscle cells. Even though conventional wisdom continues to assert that AR density does not decline -and if anything goes up- during AAS cycles, I am more inclined to believe your explanations that AR density goes down. I do not have a link to the thread where this was discussed before, but if you do or anyone else does, please feel free to post.

That being the case, what do you think of using a testosterone antagonist (or as they are sometimes referred to anti-testosterone) before a cycle in order to prime the body? Would doing so increase the receptor density and receptor sensitivity and thus enable one to get away with smaller doses during the cycle?

Of course, the initial objection will be: "if you use testosterone antagonists, you will lose muscle, then you will need to regain the lost muscle during the cycle".
I think that, unless the anti-test therapy lasts too long or is so aggressive that test is completely eliminated from the body, this is unlikely. I have seen many many people after AAS cycles, and I firmly believe that you lose only a very little muscle as a result of having low levels of circulating testosterone in your body for a month or two. If the low-test condition lasts far longer, of course you will lose substantial muscle.
However, I have seen many guys after their cycles and some of them had near zero testosterone. They couldn't get it up, felt like crap and were totally depressed. Their blood tests also revealed little testosterone... But most of them retained as much mass as those guys whose test levels recovered fast. Again, I do not have published studies showing this, but this is just my observation over the years...

That being said, what do you think of using a testosterone antagonist for a short while prior to a cycle? Would Spironolactone be a good candidate? (I may be way off with regards t Spironolactone, but if so, any other good candidates?)

Thanks Sir

 

[justeat]

half of that was over my head but im intrigued by the general gist of what your asking...


bump

 

[sethroberts]

Hi Seth,

That being the case, what do you think of using a testosterone antagonist (or as they are sometimes referred to anti-testosterone) before a cycle in order to prime the body? Would doing so increase the receptor density and receptor sensitivity and thus enable one to get away with smaller doses during the cycle?

Though I do believe that functional units of androgen receptors (androgen receptors per unit dna) do decrease in response to androgen therapy, as I have stated previously, I do not think that it is a critical piece in the desensitization to androgen therapy. I thin kwhat you are suggesting is to take an androgen receptor antagonist like cyproterone before a cycle to increase androgen receptors so that you would be more responsive to androgens. Studies show that higher receptor quantity (in terms of receptors per DNA) result in greater tissue responsiveness so in theory this may work. The downside of course is that while you are taking the antagonist, you will be decreasing androgen signalling (since it will be blocking your natural hormones at the androgen receptor) - so the question is, will the increased response make up for this decreased signalling? Maybe but probably only marginally so and in practical terms would not be worth the effort.

 

[Sub7]

That is a great answer...
thanks a lot

 

[jbryand101b]

i think you should do it and log your experience.