5mg dbol preworkout. not for test but for protein synthesis. hearmeout, experts reply
- 04-18-2010, 05:47 PM
5mg dbol preworkout. not for test but for protein synthesis. hearmeout, experts reply
ok over the past few hours i have been readin tons on this aspect of supplementing. while watchin the laker/thunder game (congrats on thunders doing so well) that said.......
i am cuttin and considering using dbol for nxt 4-5 weeks only pre workout 5 mg for increase in protein synthesis to help spare muscle. while on clen. i have also read that the 5-10 first thing in morning theory but some of my workout are around 4-5pm some are 2-3pm some are earlier so if i dose dbol around 1st thing am it would be useless by the time i hit gym. i personanly dont belive that 5mg could cause shutdonw though it would still enable elevated protein synthsis for recovery. another consideration is adding methyl 1-d (which causes no shutwond as well but is a test booster. YES it is not a steroid i am sure (the new one)) on this dbol to help elevate test. or atleast help with the minimal shutdown THAT MAY but not guarenteed to happen. this will only be planned on doing for around 4-5 weeks and if i can get alot of input on this, i am willin to somewhat log my results so we knwo what the expericne of doing 5mg pre workout finally is. i read alot of specualtions but no detailed logs of this.
little backgound have been on clen and methyl1-d (legal testbooster) for around 3.5 wks and lost a deceant 15+lbs went from 216 to 198 and trying to get to 185 but i noticed i lost some muscle mailny arms due to lack of cals and carbs and fats. yes my diet is in check i have detailed knowledge in field of nutrition. so far i like my results but would really liked to maintain more muscle. my first month consist cardio fo only 35-40min 1st thing morning but now i am rampin ti up to 2x a day second being post worout so i belive the 5mg dbol would reallllllllllllly help me maintain muscle.
CAN I HAVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE INPUT!!!!!? pls from experts and i am thinkin of somewhat loggin these results too
I BELIVE DBOL CAN BE USED LOW DOSE when i ran it before a yr ago i got decent results at 35mg so i have previous experience~ IRON LIVERô________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]
- 04-18-2010, 05:49 PM
plus if i am correct the new methyl 1-d does contain a a.i. as well~ IRON LIVERô________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]
04-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Just to keep a side note: methyl 1-D from LG's HAS a prohormone - Androsterone. It's a precursor of DHT hence used to cutting or recomp cycles, though it's naturally occuring in the body has DHEA it has some anabolic effects, not as dramatic as dianabol or superdrol, but still it IS and anabolic steroid, a very very mild one, but it is
About the 5mg of dianabol just to keep a high protein synthesis, I guess you would be better on 5mg of a drier compound (superdrol or 10mg of epistane come to my mind) than with 5mg of dianabol wich per si is kind of wet, so personaly I wouldn't consider it a good option to a cutting cycle. But all in all it would be nice to have a real log on that experment
04-18-2010, 06:00 PM
04-18-2010, 07:32 PM
04-18-2010, 07:38 PM
If you have that much knowledge of nutrition why use clen ? You're just eating through macro-nutrients like no ones business. That is probably why you're loosing size in your arms.
you say you have previous experience with dbol. how did your body respond? Did you gain water/fat. I have yet to see anyone cut on dbol, not that it can't be done. But everyone I've seen use dbol bloated.
Something like M-Drol could help you more than dbol IMO. With the goals you have, loosing fat and hardening muscle.
04-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Your stats say you are 6' and 245lbs. How long ago were you that weight?
04-18-2010, 08:30 PM
first of all thanks for are the replies.
now to answear some questions.
1. reason i use dbol is becuase it is the only aas i have avaible at this low does my SD is 10mg and no epi, i am not trying to cause any shut down. plus if i am correct dbol as a very low androgen receptor ability correct? it is to why most gains are through protein synthesis and water rentionton using dbol correct? the whole point of the 5mg is NOT TO CAUSE SHUT DOWN. since i am plannin on test after my cut.
2. yes it truly is breakfast of champions.
3. my previous exp with dbol was best gains of 35 mg. i went as high as 70 onyl diff i noticed was more stomch pain. 35mg was my sweet spot and yes there was water retention on both 70 and 35 but i doubt 5mg can cause retention.
4. DD why do u say it will not synthesis the protein i am consuming? does dbol not raise protein synthesis?
5. and yah my bad i went from 218 to 209 on hydroxycut then about 3 weeks ago i started clen and dropped from 209 to 198. i miss counted the days and weight sorry. the reason i finally plan on addin dbol is cuz i am going to be doing cardio now 2x a day morning and post workout this is one reason i wanna dose the dbol preworkout.
~ IRON LIVERô________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]
04-18-2010, 08:35 PM
A lot of Info. but worth reading to make some more things about dbol clear.
Pharmaceutical Name: Methandrostenolone / methandienone
Chemical structure: 17 beta-hydroxy-17alpha-methyl-1,4-androstadien-3-one
Dianabol was originally developed by John Ziegler and released by Ciba in 1956. It has had a long stint of popularity since then, especially in the US. Until the late 70's methandrostenolone was all the rave. Perhaps the most popular steroid ever. Known users include every Mr.Olympia from Scott to Zane. Of course the doses used have severely increased since then. Its popularity was also the cause of its demise. Almost a decade ago now the original D-bol was discontinued when the FDA drew the conclusion that its therapeutic uses were minimal compared to the amount of bodybuilders who were using it. But methandrostenolone has never been out of circulation really. Especially the Russians appeared quite fond of it and Russian D-bol is one of the best and most marketed forms of the substance methandrostenolone today.
Methandrostenolone is without a doubt one of the best, if not the best product for people who compete in non-aerobic oriented sports. It promotes drastic protein synthesis, enhances glycogenolysis (repletion of glycogen after exercise) and stimulates strength in a very direct and fast-acting way. It may be less useful to those competing in aerobic events as it also diminishes cell respiration1. But methandrostenolone manifests itself in a distinct manner : rapid and fast-acting build-up of strength and mass is noticed. That's why its often used at the beginning of cycle consisting of mostly injectables like long-acting testosterone esters and nandrolone. Since the effects of such drugs don't fully come out for the first 10-15 days, methandrostenolone is dosed in to provide immediate and visible results. It has a rather weak androgenic component and an obviously quite strong and visible anabolic component. Its effects are largely non-AR mediated, which is documented by its rather low influence on the natural endocrine system2 and the fact that it decreases rather than increases red blood cell content in the blood. Which means that one worry users of Dianabol, especially short term, needn't fear is the dramatic shutdown of natural testosterone production as is often the case with very androgenic compounds. Of course this effect is dose-dependent. It still has a mild androgenic component, meaning in high doses (30+ mg daily) androgen-mediated side-effects can be noted (acne, male pattern hair loss).
Because of its fast effects, immense popularity and the increasing "more-is-better" sentiment among bodybuilders, increasingly high doses are indeed being used and recommended. One has to wonder about the logic of such recommendations however, since high dose urine-analysis showed portions of unmetabolized compounds were being excreted3. In simpler terms that means that with higher doses, higher amounts of unchanged methandrostenolone were being excreted in the urine. This would indicate that the current stance needs to be reviewed and that smaller doses, taken multiple times per day would deliver better results and maximal use of the steroid. Dianabol simply is highly effective in low doses(25-40 mg ed). Som say Anadrol, a comparable steroid to methandrostenolone, is better, but its taken in doses of 50-150 mg. If one was to take methandrostenolone in those doses better gains could be expected. Methandrostenolone is also a lot safer in as opposed to the highly toxic and progestagenic anadrol. If one takes into account that the half-life of methandrostenolone in the body is only 3-6 hours, this theory makes even more sense. So taking your daily dose spread over 3 or 4 doses may elicit a better effect than only 1 or 2 doses. Methandrostenolone is quite effective in these lower doses by the way. Milligram for Milligram its more powerful than a testosterone ester, generally considered the best mass-builder.
A few notes there need to be made however. Not everyone should try and spread their doses out over multiple servings. First of all there is a slightly lower efficacy to take into account here as well due to two characteristics. The first being that you feed the total amount to the liver in smaller portions, yet the liver still manages to metabolize the same amount. Percentage wise that means less methandienone would make it through totally. The second would be that the peak levels aren't quite as high since no large doses are taken all at once. These two facts make it hard to recommend that just anyone take multiple doses. People who take moderate to low doses of ONLY methandrostenolone should probably opt for a single morning dose. This delivers a higher peak level and more survival of your only steroid. It also, due to the short half-life, makes the drug clear the body before the body produces its largest dose of natural testosterone, the early hours of sleep. Combined with the already mild effect at the AR, you could keep a good amount of your gains when using clomid or Nolvadex post-cycle. For those using it in conjunction with other, mostly injectable steroids, two doses seems to be the better choice, if you are taking in excess of 40 mg a day perhaps even three doses.
This is usually the case for fast-acting substances, they have short half-lives. Which brings us to the point of prolonged use. The general concensus is that methandrostenolone should never be used more than 6 weeks on end due its strong hepatoxic effects. Being largely an oral compound, its also 17-alpha-alkylated to help it survive the liver upon first pass. Liver values are elevated over a short period of time4, making long-term use a very dangerous affair. Liver values should return to normal quite fast after discontinuation however since the effects are so short-lived. Other risks associated with the use of methandrostenolone include the apparition of estrogenic side-effects because it interacts rather well with the aromatase enzyme on account of its methylated properties. It is therefore best used in conjunction with an anti-estrogen. Gynocomastia, high blood pressure, salt and water retention and mild cases of acne are therefore not uncommon.
Its methylated properties (17-methyl group) does have several positive characteristics of course. Why else would they add this group? The main purpose of course it to make sure less of the methandrostenolone is affected by hepatic breakdown when taken orally. But apparently it also decreases the affinity of the drug to SHBG (sex-hormone binding globulin), a sex steroid binding protein that takes up as much as 98% of testosterone. Testosterone that can't be used to build muscle. Since methandrostenolone does not bind to this protein easily, its quite an active substance, no doubt accounting for its fast and immediately visible action. Dianabol also does not affect cholesterol levels to a high degree in moderate doses5, and it seems to help an athlete stock up on potassium6. This is particularly beneficial taking into account the amount of sodium its estrogenic effects store as well.
We hinted at the short time of activity methandrostenolone possesses. This means that despite its immediate, fast and explosive gains in both strength and mass, they are quite hard to maintain. Often the bulk of mass is lost shortly after discontinuation, making it most unsuitable for those looking to gain and keep quality muscle. An injectable may suppress some of these obviously flawed characteristics, but the 5 mg tabs remain the trend. With its high capacity to survive breakdown in the liver this understandably. Orally its perhaps the most powerful, although in the strength of effects it still can't hold a candle to androl. But its cheaper and safer than the aforementioned of course.
In light of the evidence presented, we conclude that the best use for methandrostenolone is short-term, for 5-6 weeks, at the beginning of a longer bulking stack (10+ weeks), preferably injectable, to kickstart gains and strength. Its effects are largely non-AR mediated and it aromatizes quite well, which leaves it with limited stacking partners, The best candidates are of course nandrolone and testosterone. It should be taken in doses no higher than 50 mg (20-40 mg being the norm) ,spread over multiple doses for maximum effects in stacks and a single morning dose when taken by itself. D-bol remains a favorite today however, that's a fact that cannot be argued.
Stacking and Use:
I needn't really expand too much, since most of the conclusion were drawn in that last paragraph. Dianabol is a methylated compound with a certain toxicity, so in the interest of safety you wouldn't use it longer than 6 weeks on end, 8 weeks at the absolute maximum and only under supervision of a medical professional who can monitor your liver values. Because it heavily aromatizes its not particularly useful during cutting and with 6-8 weeks of use maximum, that leaves but two options. Either stacking it with another, injectable, compound that can be used for longer terms (beginning of stack when other compound is least active) or you would do multiple short cycles. In that case one would take off at least as long as he was on during a cycle, preferably longer. Like 6 weeks on, followed by 6-10 weeks off. These multiple cycles were all the fashion among pro bodybuilders in the 70's with very decent results.
When stacking with a longer-acting product, such as testosterone enanthate or cypionate, Deca or Equipoise, the best use is early on in the stack. Dianabol is a very fast-acting steroid and most injectables don't start showing their real value for 2-3 weeks. That makes it particularly useful to kick off a cycle with.
The pink ones are Anabol (Dianabol) and the yellow ones are Stanabol (Winstrol). These are very popular right now. They are 5 mg tabs and they sell for less than 30 cents a tab.
It's most readily stacked with Deca-Durabolin or Primobolan, perhaps even Equipoise. Usually an injection of 200-400 mg/week combined with 30-40 mg of Dianabol everyday. In some cases testosterone was used in conjunction with anyone of these stacks. For short term use oral Primobolan made a good match, and in lesser ways an oral Winstrol. Both provide a mild, lean foundation for the Dianabol and both are also 17-alpha alkylated, warranting short-term use. Since Dianabol has little Androgen receptor activity, it functions particularly synergistic with compounds that have a strong Androgen receptor activity as is the case for all the aforementioned.
Along the lines of secondary products an anti-aromatase like Cytadren or Arimidex may be useful. When stacked with Deca, the choice for a receptor antagonist like Clomid or Nolvadex is perhaps a wiser choice. Perhaps even a combination of both. Dianabol aromatizes rather heavily, which means in a stack with another aromatizing compound the risk for gyno remains high and water retention is virtually a fact. Post-cycle the use of Clomid or Nolvadex can be employed to boost natural testosterone production. There is quite some circulating estrogen post-cycle that causes prolonged negative feedback, clomid or Nolvadex would solve that problem and help you retain more of your gains.
04-18-2010, 08:45 PM
You're basically just talking about a low dose pulse cycle of d-bol. Plenty of people have used pulse cycles with various compounds with little shutdown problems. Read the first few pages of the how to pulse orals thread as it covers most of this and even addresses d-bol pulses (at least from what I remember).
04-18-2010, 08:47 PM
ohh and DD
1. my protein is currently around 300g a day. i try to consume around 35-40g every 3hours-4hours. my EFA's are decent too i take flax seed fishoil i try to eat fish 2-3 of my meals a day. though this diet i decided to lower my fats a little more then i usually do which seemed more effective this time. last time my diet was extrmely low carbs HIGGGGGH fats and high protein. this was ok but not as good as this diet im doing now. but yah my fats (good) and my protein are very decent.
2. the 245lb was a while back from my dbol test bulk. almost a year ago. i am very late at updating thins status thing......
04-18-2010, 08:52 PM
04-18-2010, 08:58 PM
i did read it, it simply states eveyr 2-3days dosing, i wanna dose it everyday very low.
and yes i know 1st thing morning is the best, but my question is? if i dose ti first thing morning...... would it still benefit me if i train around 5-6pm? since by then dbol is out of my system i dont see how dosing it would benefit me unless i also lift in the morning....
04-18-2010, 09:01 PM
Because of the half-life of dbol only being a few hours I would dose it closer to my workout. Since you're only considering 5mg/day
If you do more then I would space the doses out evenly to keep the drug in your system at a steady level throughout the day.
04-18-2010, 09:08 PM
DD yes at 245 i had high bf. i just wanted to see how much i can expand my body. (it was a while back and a odd experiment) but yah i wanna be roughyl 185 with very low bf. then do a real cycle of test. my main concern it would the 5mg shut me down? i honestly belive that stacking it with methyl 1d (legal version) will not cause any shut down. 1d ( morning and evening) dbol (before gym).
and EP basically wat ur saying is if i wake up at 7 and gym around 3 i should dose dbol roughyl around 11?
04-18-2010, 09:13 PM
No, if I were going to run 5mg of dbol I would use it 30-60 minutes before my workout if I was only using 1 dose. That IMO would be the best window of time to use dbol. During your workout and into the start of your recovery process.
04-19-2010, 03:27 AM
yes that is correctly what i did today. i used it 40min before workout around 130pm
04-19-2010, 11:41 AM
this might help,i read a long time ago some guy did blood work and 10mg dbol on day 3 was like a 5 fold increase of free test in his blood.
you might as well just do a 5 week 10mg 5/5 split and see how that goes,10mg wont cause much water at all and will give you way better results than 5mg,it will shut you down tho.
04-19-2010, 12:19 PM
well i used 5mg yesterday before triceps..... im not sore today this is first time since i started cuttin i recovered so quickly, i have extremely mild sore on triceps. so something worked. this is not a placebo effect since i honestly though nothing would happen and i dont get placebo effect. but yah i am doing biceps in a few hours and by tomorrow i will see how sore they are. just got back from morning cardio. took methyl 1-d 1.5hours ago and gonna again around 5-6pm. everything else is still the same, im just suprised my triceps are not sore....
04-19-2010, 12:22 PM
but it is important! to note...... i felt NO BIGGER PUMP of the 5mg. no performace enhancement was noted during exercise. but recovery is up
04-19-2010, 12:33 PM
i seriosuly belive there is no need to dose this steroid above 15-20mg. this belive of more is better only works on supplements like no explode. ppl who dose this steroid at 50-70mg are just creating more damage internally.
04-19-2010, 12:37 PM
also important to note, after my workout yesterday my nipples did appear very soft and puffy...... but today they are hard and normal again
04-20-2010, 07:22 PM
are you saying you felt a difference in one day at 5mg?bro that is placebo,no way is 5mg and in one day going to cause any difference in anything,not even a boner.
Ive done 20mg and didnt notice anything until day 6,you sure your 5mg pills are not 50mg?
04-20-2010, 07:50 PM
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04-20-2010, 11:17 PM
no its the 5mg loll i didnt notice much lmao i just really dont use aas. if i do only like once a yr. and its been close to a year. like i said i ddint notice anything special just noticed not so sore next day. placebo would be me saying ohhh wooooow massive pump. i cleary stated I HAD NO PUMP. just xtra recovery
04-21-2010, 03:38 PM
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