SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids

[junkyarddogzz]

found this little diddy on OLOGY. Interesting read.

SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids


Which One Wins As The Best
Alternative To Steroids?







SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids


Which One Wins As The Best
Alternative To Steroids?



When Pro-Hormones first hit the scene,
anticipation was high. But it didn’t take long before it became obvious
that these compounds were pretty weak in replicating the muscle
building effects of real steroids. And to make matters worse, they
carried most of the same negative side effects of steroids. That was not
a winning combination. Over the years there were (supposed)
improvements, one pretty much as bad as the next, until a new invention
hit the market – the designer steroid. These didn’t act as precursors
to anabolic and androgenic receptors, instead, they were actual steroids
that have been manipulated in a way that they were able to get in under
the wire of being classified as a controlled substance. They actually
worked pretty well. And they were the best legal alternative to
anabolic steroids to date. But times have changed.



Technically, Pro-hormones and
pro-steroids are no longer allowed to be sold but it wouldn’t take much
of a search to track some down. Many commercial health food stores
still carry a copious line of pro-hormones and their collective
imitators – all using various titles to manage staying commercially
available. Unfortunately, these products have one major drawback. Not
only are they as liver toxic as 17AA oral steroids, they’ve been shown
to be kidney toxic as well. These risks should not be understated.
Liver and kidney problems often go undetected until sever damage has
been inflicted. Still, to many who did not want to go the route of
dealing with the black market for steroids, they’re willing to take the
risk since were the only choice. Until now.



The latest addition to non-steroidal
muscle builders is SARMS but unlike Pro hormones or Pro steroids, they
aren’t an imitation of steroids -- they’re an improvement.
And they aren’t being promoted by amateur chemists and supplement
companies. Some of the top scientists and pharmaceutical companies are
working on getting this to the market. But it’s available NOW. (For
research purposes).



SARMS (Selective Androgen
Receptor Modulators ) are a unique class of androgen
receptor molecules. The intent is to have the same effects as steroids
but are much more “selective” in their action – similar to testosterone
but without the negative side effects, most notably prostate enlargement
and possible carcinoma. Another benefit is that no injection is
required. It comes in a non-toxic oral form that has a half-life of
between 2.6 and 5.3 hours(1). The
goal is to allow the customized response of entering muscle tissue that
are the target of the therapy which in return will respond as they would
to testosterone. Other tissues where undesirable side effects (such as
the prostate) are produced will not be affected(2). To add to the
benefits a new class of sarms called "sarms S-4" has shown to have
little to no effect on the hpta unlike pro hormones or designer
steroids. This means no post cycle therapy is needed after a cycle of
S-4 and potensaily life long complications are avoided(3). S-4 has also
shown little to no ability to convert to estrogen so gyno "a common
problem with pro hormones" is also avoided(4).





To many researchers, scientist,
pharmacologists and just about anyone familiar with anabolic
enhancement, this is obviously a huge leap in the area of
anabolic/androgenic enhancement. Whereas pro-hormones were sort-of
like steroids, in that they create a facsimile some of the effects,
SARMS delivers steroid-like results in a big way. Comparing SARMS to
pro-hormones is like comparing a 47” HD flat screen Television to a 12”
black and white TV with tubes. There’s just no way one isn’t light
years better than the other.(5) And everyone who has tried both would
agree.



Pro-Hormones and Pro-Steroids are all
based on a flawed principle – attempted to act similarly to steroids,
yet avoid classification by altering some of the molecular structure.
That’s the problem. Once you alter a molecule chain, it changes
everything. And although some of the effects may remain, it’s
essentially a fraudulent version of what you’re attempting to replicate.
Pro hormones are actually discarded forms of steroids. The
pharmaceutical companies deemed them so inferior they abandoned the
technology. It was this same technology that was resurrected for no
other reason other than to get a drug on the market that could be sold
as a supplement. SARMS is the opposite. It isn’t an imitation. It’s
the next stage(6). Because Pro Hormones and designer steroids are made
to be "like steroids" or are in fact a steroid analog they pose the
problem of making WADA tested athletes test positive for steroids when
tested. Sarms S-4 however does no such thing and to this date there is
no way to test for Sarms S-4 ether in a athletes blood or urine So a
athlete can safely take S-4 without fear of testing hot for a wada
banned substance.





SARMS.were developed for the same reasons
as steroids – to prevent muscle wasting through increased nitrogen
retention. The main difference is that instead of using the old
technology on which all steroid are based, it incorporated state of the
art discoveries. The results were astonishing – so much so that
research has begun in the medical community in Europe and the results
have been extremely positive. Those more adventurous individuals have
already begun incorporating SARMS for muscle building purposes and
Hormone Replacement. And it looks as if SARMS is here to stay.



SARMS produces what many consider “high
quality” muscle. The gains are very solid, unlike the results from many
pro-hormones that are mostly water weight. SARMS also has the added
benefit of not being capable of aromatizing to estrogen(7).



It’s arguable that SARMS is actually
superior to pharmaceutical grade steroids. 50-100 mg a day will yield a
similar result to 25- 50mg of an oral steroid like turinabol, but
without the toxicity. Be that as it may, it’s evident that a cycle of
SARMS far superior to any pro-hormone or pro-steroid.



So there’s really no contest here. SARMS
blows away any Pro-hormone or OTC Pro-steroid on the market. One cycle
is all it‘ll take to convince you.

























References.



1) resorption in rats. AAPS Pharm Sci. 2003;5 Abstract R6167.

9.Marhefka CA, Gao W, Chung K, Kim J, He Y, Yin D, Bohl C, Dalton JT,
Miller DD. Design, synthesis, and biological characterization of
metabolically stable selective androgen receptor modulators. Journal of
Medicinal Chemistry. 2003



2)Yin D, Gao W, Kearbey JD, Xu H, Chung K, He Y, Marhefka CA, Veverka
KA, Miller DD, Dalton JT. Pharmacodynamics of selective androgen
receptor modulators. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental
Therapeutics. 2003;304:1334–1340. [PubMed



3)Endocrinology. 2005 Nov;146(11):4887-97. Epub 2005 Aug 11.

Selective androgen receptor modulator treatment improves muscle strength
and body composition and prevents bone loss in orchidectomized rats.

Gao W, Reiser PJ, Coss CC, Phelps MA, Kearbey JD, Miller DD, Dalton JT.

Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy and Department of Oral
Biology, The Ohio State University, 500 West 12th Avenue, L. M. Parks
Hall, Room 242, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA



4)Pharmacokinetics of
S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide
in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator

J. D. KEARBEY,† D. WU,† W. GAO,† D. D. MILLER,‡ and J. T. DALTON†*

†Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State
University, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.

‡Department of Pharmaceutics, Graduate Health Sciences Center, College
of Pharmacy, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN 38163, USA



5)Selective androgen receptor modulator treatment improves muscle
strength and body composition and prevents bone loss in orchidectomized
rats.

Gao W, Reiser PJ, Coss CC, Phelps MA, Kearbey JD, Miller DD, Dalton JT.

Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy and Department of Oral
Biology, The Ohio State University, 500 West 12th Avenue, L. M. Parks
Hall, Room 242, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA



6)In vivo metabolism and final disposition of a novel nonsteroidal
androgen in rats and dogs.

Perera MA, Yin D, Wu D, Chan KK, Miller DD, Dalton J.

Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State
University, 500 West 12th Ave., Columbus, OH 43210, USA



7)Pharmacokinetics of
S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide
in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator

J. D. KEARBEY,† D. WU,† W. GAO,† D. D. MILLER,‡ and J. T. DALTON†*

†Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State
University, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.

‡Department of Pharmaceutics, Graduate Health Sciences Center, College
of Pharmacy, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN 38163, USA.

[mxmadman]

Can I haz a bottull plox?

[panther77]

I would say that this is not completely correct, I know that 50-100 mgs a day of sarms is not equal to 50 mgs of turinabol

[junkyarddogzz]

I have ran tbol, I found the feeling of sarms more like var. But thats just me. Im a big fan of both tbol and var.

[madds87]

Anyone know a legit s4 website?

[junkyarddogzz]

Anyone know a legit s4 website?

there are a couple out there. I have used one, but I have heard good things about both.

google "sarms search"

[Tomahawk88]

It seems people dont get that "on" feeling that people associate with PH and DS. Do u feel that is true?

[junkyarddogzz]

you deff feel "on".

hardens you up as well.

[wontstop985]

I did not feel "on" while on S4.

[junkyarddogzz]

I did not feel "on" while on S4.

if you compare it to a test/dbol cycle, no.

If you compare it to an havoc cycle, hell yeah.

I fight MMA(ammy stuff), so I train everyday. The recovery while on s4 was amazing. I also like that if needed, I can cut weight while on.

[Tomahawk88]

I meant more like the feeling of being an "alpha male" or whatever u want to call it. A log I read the guy says he lifted like he was on cycle but didnt have that same feeling u get. I def dont mind that extra mood boost. Id love to run some of this post PCT.

[madds87]

expemsove pct...... but im sure your recovery would be nice and maybe even some additional muscle during pct.?....?

[Vegking]

Can they be taken directly after a prohormone cycle or should some one take some time off before starting. I have used Sarms s-4 before but never right after a cycle.

[junkyarddogzz]

Can they be taken directly after a prohormone cycle or should some one take some time off before starting. I have used Sarms s-4 before but never right after a cycle.

yeah, run the s4 at 50mgs ed and you can run it right after your PH cycle.

[jjsafari]

agree. sarms > PH. but sarms + PH......i wonder i wonder

[jjsafari]

Can they be taken directly after a prohormone cycle or should some one take some time off before starting. I have used Sarms s-4 before but never right after a cycle.

yeah, run the s4 at 50mgs ed and you can run it right after your PH cycle.

yeah you can do them really anytime, however if its post cycle id do like 50mg max split into 2 doses, there has been talks of light suppression at high doses. i have been doing 50mg ed/2doses for 3.5 weeks now and i have gotten good results.

[ZamaMan]

I'm very curious too... Anyone stack a sarn with a ph. But it would be nasty on top of some SD.

[jjsafari]

I'm very curious too... Anyone stack a sarn with a ph. But it would be nasty on top of some SD.

idk tho. the sarm is already stimulating the androgen receptors so in theory you wouldnt get too much from one of them because they would kind of be competing for receptors. but its worth a try i might do it soon i have some m-lmg and h-drol sitting around i cant seem to sell >_<

[Thunder1]

S-4 is like running test prop. Take to much & you get yellow vision. It goes away when your off it for a bit.

[junkyarddogzz]

idk tho. the sarm is already stimulating the androgen receptors so in theory you wouldnt get too much from one of them because they would kind of be competing for receptors. but its worth a try i might do it soon i have some m-lmg and h-drol sitting around i cant seem to sell >_<

run some L-carnitine tatrate....clean those receptors and add new ones.

a bottle of sarms last 8 weeks at 50mgs ed.

you could do 4 weeks before and after your ph cycle.

[Tomahawk88]

I have heard the yellow vision can be helped by running the SARMs at 50mg on a 5 on 2 off schedule.

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Sounds interesting but expensive.

[CrownRoyal]

Hmm.. I am currently running H-Drol (6 weeks).. Running S-4 during PCT sounds rather appeasing.

[junkyarddogzz]

I have heard the yellow vision can be helped by running the SARMs at 50mg on a 5 on 2 off schedule.

Bilberry also help with the vision issues.

5 on 2 off works great.

[Zero V]

Essentially, if this has merit(Need to do more research obviously) not only is SARMS S4 cheaper than any PH, it is just as effective, and more protective of our bodies? As in no need to fight gyno coming off it, or their wanker not working.

[jaydollars]

I would like to see long time am members who have used S4 attest to it's strength or weakness, I have seen a ton of mixed reviews but I'm super curious about this stuff

[jbryand101b]

funny how this article didn't list the negatives that sarms have.

this seems more like an add to sell sarms, than informative data.

i might give s4 a try in the next month. I will def post my opinions througout the cycle if i do.

sarms out now are not the holy grail they claim to be. but we'll see.

[jaydollars]

funny how this article didn't list the negatives that sarms have.

this seems more like an add to sell sarms, than informative data.

i might give s4 a try in the next month. I will def post my opinions througout the cycle if i do.

sarms out now are not the holy grail they claim to be. but we'll see.

Great do a log so we can all see, I have yet to find any convincing logs

[amtnz]

the mood "boost" is placebo.

[mooch2321]

yeah, i put on like 11 pounds with a sarm, pure muscle too. Leaned out and everrthing it was from mhp....sarmX or sumthin. It was awesome!

[citystreets]

careful guys, people benefiting directly from sell of these sarms are hyping this stuff in order to get some sales, we essentialy are the guinnea pigs and at this point i would consider this shyt too unreliable to be put into my body. Think twice about it, dont fall for hype like i did reading sponsored logs on Epistane when it first came out.

[Call Me Sexy]

just to be clear...some of you guys are thinking that running this after a ph/ds cycle will be ok?...my question is, would u still have to do a pct?

[Tomahawk88]

just to be clear...some of you guys are thinking that running this after a ph/ds cycle will be ok?...my question is, would u still have to do a pct?

I cant speak for others but ya def still running a PCT.

[jbryand101b]

just to be clear...some of you guys are thinking that running this after a ph/ds cycle will be ok?...my question is, would u still have to do a pct?

yes, because if you look at actualy data from legit studies done on humans, and rats, all 5 types of sarms currently made negatively effect hpta function to some degree.

I've said this before, so much, im actually getting tired of repeating myself,
there is no sarms available that do what they are supposed to do, yet.
and also, the sarms out are better suited for athletes than bodybuilders looking to put on mass.

im not saying with the right diet, and training, sarms wont add lean muscle, im saying 20mg of superdrol blow any dose of sarms out the water.

but then you get back to the old saying, more gains, more sides, even with sarms, you up the dose of the sarm, you now have unwanted sides like vision problems, which with a pure sarm, you shouldn't have.

these sarms people are using have alot in common with another drug dosed similarly....clomid.

[citystreets]

lol i wouldnt be surprised if it was clomid.

[jbryand101b]

lol i wouldnt be surprised if it was clomid.

Seth Roberts didn't say in exact words it was clomid, but who knows.

what i do know is one minor change/breakdown in the chemical make up, and then you have side effects like what's seen. and this shows the compounds aren't pure. but hey, your getting it for research purposes, not appropriate for human consumption, what do you expect?

[citystreets]

do you have a link to seth roberts regarding sarms?

[junkyarddogzz]

if you have used clomid, then you find it very different then sarms.

[jbryand101b]

do you have a link to seth roberts regarding sarms?

i sure do, dug it up just for you.

SARM Info

his input starts at post 25, he continues to input throughout the thread though.

[flightposite]

i have some but am not sold on it enough yet to try it. good read though.