SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids

Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids


    found this little diddy on OLOGY. Interesting read.

    SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids


    Which One Wins As The Best
    Alternative To Steroids?







    SARMS versus Pro-Hormones and Pro Steroids


    Which One Wins As The Best
    Alternative To Steroids?



    When Pro-Hormones first hit the scene,
    anticipation was high. But it didn’t take long before it became obvious
    that these compounds were pretty weak in replicating the muscle
    building effects of real steroids. And to make matters worse, they
    carried most of the same negative side effects of steroids. That was not
    a winning combination. Over the years there were (supposed)
    improvements, one pretty much as bad as the next, until a new invention
    hit the market – the designer steroid. These didn’t act as precursors
    to anabolic and androgenic receptors, instead, they were actual steroids
    that have been manipulated in a way that they were able to get in under
    the wire of being classified as a controlled substance. They actually
    worked pretty well. And they were the best legal alternative to
    anabolic steroids to date. But times have changed.



    Technically, Pro-hormones and
    pro-steroids are no longer allowed to be sold but it wouldn’t take much
    of a search to track some down. Many commercial health food stores
    still carry a copious line of pro-hormones and their collective
    imitators – all using various titles to manage staying commercially
    available. Unfortunately, these products have one major drawback. Not
    only are they as liver toxic as 17AA oral steroids, they’ve been shown
    to be kidney toxic as well. These risks should not be understated.
    Liver and kidney problems often go undetected until sever damage has
    been inflicted. Still, to many who did not want to go the route of
    dealing with the black market for steroids, they’re willing to take the
    risk since were the only choice. Until now.



    The latest addition to non-steroidal
    muscle builders is SARMS but unlike Pro hormones or Pro steroids, they
    aren’t an imitation of steroids -- they’re an improvement.
    And they aren’t being promoted by amateur chemists and supplement
    companies. Some of the top scientists and pharmaceutical companies are
    working on getting this to the market. But it’s available NOW. (For
    research purposes).



    SARMS (Selective Androgen
    Receptor Modulators ) are a unique class of androgen
    receptor molecules. The intent is to have the same effects as steroids
    but are much more “selective” in their action – similar to testosterone
    but without the negative side effects, most notably prostate enlargement
    and possible carcinoma. Another benefit is that no injection is
    required. It comes in a non-toxic oral form that has a half-life of
    between 2.6 and 5.3 hours(1). The
    goal is to allow the customized response of entering muscle tissue that
    are the target of the therapy which in return will respond as they would
    to testosterone. Other tissues where undesirable side effects (such as
    the prostate) are produced will not be affected(2). To add to the
    benefits a new class of sarms called "sarms S-4" has shown to have
    little to no effect on the hpta unlike pro hormones or designer
    steroids. This means no post cycle therapy is needed after a cycle of
    S-4 and potensaily life long complications are avoided(3). S-4 has also
    shown little to no ability to convert to estrogen so gyno "a common
    problem with pro hormones" is also avoided(4).





    To many researchers, scientist,
    pharmacologists and just about anyone familiar with anabolic
    enhancement, this is obviously a huge leap in the area of
    anabolic/androgenic enhancement. Whereas pro-hormones were sort-of
    like steroids, in that they create a facsimile some of the effects,
    SARMS delivers steroid-like results in a big way. Comparing SARMS to
    pro-hormones is like comparing a 47” HD flat screen Television to a 12”
    black and white TV with tubes. There’s just no way one isn’t light
    years better than the other.(5) And everyone who has tried both would
    agree.



    Pro-Hormones and Pro-Steroids are all
    based on a flawed principle – attempted to act similarly to steroids,
    yet avoid classification by altering some of the molecular structure.
    That’s the problem. Once you alter a molecule chain, it changes
    everything. And although some of the effects may remain, it’s
    essentially a fraudulent version of what you’re attempting to replicate.
    Pro hormones are actually discarded forms of steroids. The
    pharmaceutical companies deemed them so inferior they abandoned the
    technology. It was this same technology that was resurrected for no
    other reason other than to get a drug on the market that could be sold
    as a supplement. SARMS is the opposite. It isn’t an imitation. It’s
    the next stage(6). Because Pro Hormones and designer steroids are made
    to be "like steroids" or are in fact a steroid analog they pose the
    problem of making WADA tested athletes test positive for steroids when
    tested. Sarms S-4 however does no such thing and to this date there is
    no way to test for Sarms S-4 ether in a athletes blood or urine So a
    athlete can safely take S-4 without fear of testing hot for a wada
    banned substance.





    SARMS.were developed for the same reasons
    as steroids – to prevent muscle wasting through increased nitrogen
    retention. The main difference is that instead of using the old
    technology on which all steroid are based, it incorporated state of the
    art discoveries. The results were astonishing – so much so that
    research has begun in the medical community in Europe and the results
    have been extremely positive. Those more adventurous individuals have
    already begun incorporating SARMS for muscle building purposes and
    Hormone Replacement. And it looks as if SARMS is here to stay.



    SARMS produces what many consider “high
    quality” muscle. The gains are very solid, unlike the results from many
    pro-hormones that are mostly water weight. SARMS also has the added
    benefit of not being capable of aromatizing to estrogen(7).



    It’s arguable that SARMS is actually
    superior to pharmaceutical grade steroids. 50-100 mg a day will yield a
    similar result to 25- 50mg of an oral steroid like turinabol, but
    without the toxicity. Be that as it may, it’s evident that a cycle of
    SARMS far superior to any pro-hormone or pro-steroid.



    So there’s really no contest here. SARMS
    blows away any Pro-hormone or OTC Pro-steroid on the market. One cycle
    is all it‘ll take to convince you.

























    References.



    1) resorption in rats. AAPS Pharm Sci. 2003;5 Abstract R6167.

    9.Marhefka CA, Gao W, Chung K, Kim J, He Y, Yin D, Bohl C, Dalton JT,
    Miller DD. Design, synthesis, and biological characterization of
    metabolically stable selective androgen receptor modulators. Journal of
    Medicinal Chemistry. 2003



    2)Yin D, Gao W, Kearbey JD, Xu H, Chung K, He Y, Marhefka CA, Veverka
    KA, Miller DD, Dalton JT. Pharmacodynamics of selective androgen
    receptor modulators. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental
    Therapeutics. 2003;304:1334–1340. [PubMed



    3)Endocrinology. 2005 Nov;146(11):4887-97. Epub 2005 Aug 11.

    Selective androgen receptor modulator treatment improves muscle strength
    and body composition and prevents bone loss in orchidectomized rats.

    Gao W, Reiser PJ, Coss CC, Phelps MA, Kearbey JD, Miller DD, Dalton JT.

    Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy and Department of Oral
    Biology, The Ohio State University, 500 West 12th Avenue, L. M. Parks
    Hall, Room 242, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA



    4)Pharmacokinetics of
    S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide
    in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator

    J. D. KEARBEY,† D. WU,† W. GAO,† D. D. MILLER,‡ and J. T. DALTON†*

    †Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State
    University, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.

    ‡Department of Pharmaceutics, Graduate Health Sciences Center, College
    of Pharmacy, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN 38163, USA



    5)Selective androgen receptor modulator treatment improves muscle
    strength and body composition and prevents bone loss in orchidectomized
    rats.

    Gao W, Reiser PJ, Coss CC, Phelps MA, Kearbey JD, Miller DD, Dalton JT.

    Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy and Department of Oral
    Biology, The Ohio State University, 500 West 12th Avenue, L. M. Parks
    Hall, Room 242, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA



    6)In vivo metabolism and final disposition of a novel nonsteroidal
    androgen in rats and dogs.

    Perera MA, Yin D, Wu D, Chan KK, Miller DD, Dalton J.

    Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State
    University, 500 West 12th Ave., Columbus, OH 43210, USA



    7)Pharmacokinetics of
    S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide
    in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator

    J. D. KEARBEY,† D. WU,† W. GAO,† D. D. MILLER,‡ and J. T. DALTON†*

    †Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State
    University, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.

    ‡Department of Pharmaceutics, Graduate Health Sciences Center, College
    of Pharmacy, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN 38163, USA.

  2. Registered User
    mxmadman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    128
    Rep Power
    135

    Can I haz a bottull plox?
  3. Registered User
    panther77's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    1,330
    Rep Power
    743

    I would say that this is not completely correct, I know that 50-100 mgs a day of sarms is not equal to 50 mgs of turinabol
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    I have ran tbol, I found the feeling of sarms more like var. But thats just me. Im a big fan of both tbol and var.
  5. Registered User
    madds87's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    At my house. Dur.
    Posts
    2,903
    Rep Power
    98803

    Anyone know a legit s4 website?
  6. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Anyone know a legit s4 website?
    there are a couple out there. I have used one, but I have heard good things about both.

    google "sarms search"
  7. Registered User
    Tomahawk88's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    9,086
    Rep Power
    629304

    It seems people dont get that "on" feeling that people associate with PH and DS. Do u feel that is true?
  8. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    you deff feel "on".

    hardens you up as well.
  9. Registered User
    wontstop985's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    28
    Posts
    579
    Rep Power
    506

    I did not feel "on" while on S4.
  10. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    Quote Originally Posted by wontstop985 View Post
    I did not feel "on" while on S4.
    if you compare it to a test/dbol cycle, no.

    If you compare it to an havoc cycle, hell yeah.

    I fight MMA(ammy stuff), so I train everyday. The recovery while on s4 was amazing. I also like that if needed, I can cut weight while on.
  11. Registered User
    Tomahawk88's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    9,086
    Rep Power
    629304

    I meant more like the feeling of being an "alpha male" or whatever u want to call it. A log I read the guy says he lifted like he was on cycle but didnt have that same feeling u get. I def dont mind that extra mood boost. Id love to run some of this post PCT.
  12. Registered User
    madds87's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    At my house. Dur.
    Posts
    2,903
    Rep Power
    98803

    expemsove pct...... but im sure your recovery would be nice and maybe even some additional muscle during pct.?....?
  13. Registered User
    Vegking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    238
    Rep Power
    12275

    Can they be taken directly after a prohormone cycle or should some one take some time off before starting. I have used Sarms s-4 before but never right after a cycle.
  14. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegking View Post
    Can they be taken directly after a prohormone cycle or should some one take some time off before starting. I have used Sarms s-4 before but never right after a cycle.
    yeah, run the s4 at 50mgs ed and you can run it right after your PH cycle.
  15. Registered User
    jjsafari's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    109

    agree. sarms > PH. but sarms + PH......i wonder i wonder
  16. Registered User
    jjsafari's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    109

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegking View Post
    Can they be taken directly after a prohormone cycle or should some one take some time off before starting. I have used Sarms s-4 before but never right after a cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by junkyarddogzz View Post
    yeah, run the s4 at 50mgs ed and you can run it right after your PH cycle.
    yeah you can do them really anytime, however if its post cycle id do like 50mg max split into 2 doses, there has been talks of light suppression at high doses. i have been doing 50mg ed/2doses for 3.5 weeks now and i have gotten good results.
  17. Banned
    ZamaMan's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    938
    Rep Power
    0

    I'm very curious too... Anyone stack a sarn with a ph. But it would be nasty on top of some SD.
  18. Registered User
    jjsafari's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    109

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamaMan View Post
    I'm very curious too... Anyone stack a sarn with a ph. But it would be nasty on top of some SD.
    idk tho. the sarm is already stimulating the androgen receptors so in theory you wouldnt get too much from one of them because they would kind of be competing for receptors. but its worth a try i might do it soon i have some m-lmg and h-drol sitting around i cant seem to sell >_<
  19. Registered User
    Thunder1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    170
    Rep Power
    252

    S-4 is like running test prop. Take to much & you get yellow vision. It goes away when your off it for a bit.
  20. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    Quote Originally Posted by jjsafari View Post
    idk tho. the sarm is already stimulating the androgen receptors so in theory you wouldnt get too much from one of them because they would kind of be competing for receptors. but its worth a try i might do it soon i have some m-lmg and h-drol sitting around i cant seem to sell >_<
    run some L-carnitine tatrate....clean those receptors and add new ones.

    a bottle of sarms last 8 weeks at 50mgs ed.

    you could do 4 weeks before and after your ph cycle.
  21. Registered User
    Tomahawk88's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    9,086
    Rep Power
    629304

    I have heard the yellow vision can be helped by running the SARMs at 50mg on a 5 on 2 off schedule.
  22. Board Supporter
    wastedwhiteboy2's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    USA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,986
    Rep Power
    3010

    Sounds interesting but expensive.
  23. Registered User
    CrownRoyal's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    329
    Rep Power
    235

    Hmm.. I am currently running H-Drol (6 weeks).. Running S-4 during PCT sounds rather appeasing.
  24. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    I have heard the yellow vision can be helped by running the SARMs at 50mg on a 5 on 2 off schedule.
    Bilberry also help with the vision issues.

    5 on 2 off works great.
  25. Registered User
    Zero V's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  163 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Under Gods grace
    Age
    27
    Posts
    6,287
    Rep Power
    7011

    Essentially, if this has merit(Need to do more research obviously) not only is SARMS S4 cheaper than any PH, it is just as effective, and more protective of our bodies? As in no need to fight gyno coming off it, or their wanker not working.
  26. Registered User
    jaydollars's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    1,436
    Rep Power
    27388

    I would like to see long time am members who have used S4 attest to it's strength or weakness, I have seen a ton of mixed reviews but I'm super curious about this stuff
  27. Registered User
    jbryand101b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Your moms house
    Posts
    14,557
    Rep Power
    1590236

    funny how this article didn't list the negatives that sarms have.

    this seems more like an add to sell sarms, than informative data.

    i might give s4 a try in the next month. I will def post my opinions througout the cycle if i do.

    sarms out now are not the holy grail they claim to be. but we'll see.
  28. Registered User
    jaydollars's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    1,436
    Rep Power
    27388

    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    funny how this article didn't list the negatives that sarms have.

    this seems more like an add to sell sarms, than informative data.

    i might give s4 a try in the next month. I will def post my opinions througout the cycle if i do.

    sarms out now are not the holy grail they claim to be. but we'll see.
    Great do a log so we can all see, I have yet to find any convincing logs
  29. Registered User
    amtnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    26
    Posts
    74
    Rep Power
    0

    the mood "boost" is placebo.
  30. Registered User
    mooch2321's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,835
    Rep Power
    2012

    yeah, i put on like 11 pounds with a sarm, pure muscle too. Leaned out and everrthing it was from mhp....sarmX or sumthin. It was awesome!
  31. Banned
    citystreets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    467
    Rep Power
    0

    careful guys, people benefiting directly from sell of these sarms are hyping this stuff in order to get some sales, we essentialy are the guinnea pigs and at this point i would consider this shyt too unreliable to be put into my body. Think twice about it, dont fall for hype like i did reading sponsored logs on Epistane when it first came out.
  32. Registered User
    Call Me Sexy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  167 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    114

    just to be clear...some of you guys are thinking that running this after a ph/ds cycle will be ok?...my question is, would u still have to do a pct?
  33. Registered User
    Tomahawk88's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    9,086
    Rep Power
    629304

    Quote Originally Posted by Call Me Sexy View Post
    just to be clear...some of you guys are thinking that running this after a ph/ds cycle will be ok?...my question is, would u still have to do a pct?
    I cant speak for others but ya def still running a PCT.
  34. Registered User
    jbryand101b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Your moms house
    Posts
    14,557
    Rep Power
    1590236

    Quote Originally Posted by Call Me Sexy View Post
    just to be clear...some of you guys are thinking that running this after a ph/ds cycle will be ok?...my question is, would u still have to do a pct?
    yes, because if you look at actualy data from legit studies done on humans, and rats, all 5 types of sarms currently made negatively effect hpta function to some degree.

    I've said this before, so much, im actually getting tired of repeating myself,
    there is no sarms available that do what they are supposed to do, yet.
    and also, the sarms out are better suited for athletes than bodybuilders looking to put on mass.

    im not saying with the right diet, and training, sarms wont add lean muscle, im saying 20mg of superdrol blow any dose of sarms out the water.

    but then you get back to the old saying, more gains, more sides, even with sarms, you up the dose of the sarm, you now have unwanted sides like vision problems, which with a pure sarm, you shouldn't have.

    these sarms people are using have alot in common with another drug dosed similarly....clomid.
  35. Banned
    citystreets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    467
    Rep Power
    0

    lol i wouldnt be surprised if it was clomid.
  36. Registered User
    jbryand101b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Your moms house
    Posts
    14,557
    Rep Power
    1590236

    Quote Originally Posted by citystreets View Post
    lol i wouldnt be surprised if it was clomid.
    Seth Roberts didn't say in exact words it was clomid, but who knows.

    what i do know is one minor change/breakdown in the chemical make up, and then you have side effects like what's seen. and this shows the compounds aren't pure. but hey, your getting it for research purposes, not appropriate for human consumption, what do you expect?
  37. Banned
    citystreets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    467
    Rep Power
    0

    do you have a link to seth roberts regarding sarms?
  38. Registered User
    junkyarddogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    382
    Rep Power
    257

    if you have used clomid, then you find it very different then sarms.
  39. Registered User
    jbryand101b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Your moms house
    Posts
    14,557
    Rep Power
    1590236

    Quote Originally Posted by citystreets View Post
    do you have a link to seth roberts regarding sarms?
    i sure do, dug it up just for you.

    SARM Info

    his input starts at post 25, he continues to input throughout the thread though.
  40. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    flightposite's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    2,945
    Rep Power
    311219

    i have some but am not sold on it enough yet to try it. good read though.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. pro hormones and steroids
    By Taccurso in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 04-22-2011, 09:59 PM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-23-2009, 01:54 PM
  3. Pro hormones vs. Steroids
    By Jmazz19 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-24-2006, 01:53 AM
  4. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-31-2005, 04:30 PM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-25-2004, 02:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in