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  1. wojo's Avatar
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    ok need some user feedback


    im debating between fina or 1-test for my cattle..for those who have used both for there cattle which was more potent transdermally

  2. pjorstad's Avatar
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    No doubt fina but the question is to what DEGREE??? To be honest your gonna hear a lot of b.s answers because that is the naturre of people who are partial toa drug, but par deus a reputable person says mg per mg 1-test is only 1/4 to 1/3 less potent in comparison to fina. But he is speculating so who knows. Patrick arnold doesn't seem to think they are that different as far as gainwise.

    At least fina won't make you feel like zombie. That alone makes it better because you dont have to stack it with 4-AD to ward off depression. FIna is more androgenic then 1-test to the nervous system and in fact is more stimulating to the nervous system then any steroid almost.
  3. wojo's Avatar
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    yeah im a hothead already with the fina im worried i might get to carried away..im in a.rd for a dui i got(which is totally unacceptable and i am so ashamed i refuse to drink to this day nor will i ever again)
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  4. pjorstad's Avatar
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    simple, if you can't deal with your anger avoid fina like the plageu. I remember reading someones post about how they said their friend would start to act bipolar on it. IVe heard manysay that it really ****s up with your personality. However i think it tends to do that after 4 week mark so maybe you could try a 2 or 3 week cycle just to see what its like and extend it to 4 ifyou can handle it.
  5. DarCSA's Avatar
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    Personally you can look at the Fina thread to see if you really want to run it. If it were up to me personally I would use the T1-Pro. It is a much cheaper alternative. In speaking with you I know that you want to either run 12gm of Fina for 8 weeks or the T1 and some 4-AD. Well from an economic stand point the fina could run you $200 for the total package plus the T-Gel. The T1-Pro already has 10gm 1-test and 5gm of 4-AD. And for $200 you can get 3 bottles. And you can even buy the T4 if you want. You can run some heavy cycles with it and still have more around. Physically the Fina can shut you down very hard. I would stick with the T1-Pro since it would be best for the cattle. JMO
  6. Workman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DarCSA
    Personally you can look at the Fina thread to see if you really want to run it. If it were up to me personally I would use the T1-Pro. It is a much cheaper alternative. In speaking with you I know that you want to either run 12gm of Fina for 8 weeks or the T1 and some 4-AD. Well from an economic stand point the fina could run you $200 for the total package plus the T-Gel. The T1-Pro already has 10gm 1-test and 5gm of 4-AD. And for $200 you can get 3 bottles. And you can even buy the T4 if you want. You can run some heavy cycles with it and still have more around. Physically the Fina can shut you down very hard. I would stick with the T1-Pro since it would be best for the cattle. JMO
    Isn't Fina like $30 - $35 a gram before conversion?
  7. Bean's Avatar
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    nope; about $35 per 2 grams

    synovex, which converts to test prop, is $9 per 2 grams

    fina basically brings out what you really are like if you have some minor willpower you can handle it fine...

    tho if you're gonna do fina, inject, its much cheaper, its much more accurate, and its much more effective
  8. pogue's Avatar
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    Problem with fina injections are they are required ED to maintain blood levels. This is not a first timers steroid.
  9. Thor's Avatar
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    isnt 4ad and 1test and OTC supplement?
  10. size's Avatar
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    fina.
  11. wojo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Thor
    isnt 4ad and 1test and OTC supplement?
    ur point?
  12. wojo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bean


    fina basically brings out what you really are like if you have some minor willpower you can handle it fine...

    tho if you're gonna do fina, inject, its much cheaper, its much more accurate, and its much more effective
    hey it bought out what i was really like i would be green and running around in shredded purple trousers
  13. pjorstad's Avatar
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    wojo shoot me a pm in about 3 weeks because by then my cows should have a good sense of whats better
  14. Thor's Avatar
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    my point is that you cant even compare an otc supplement to fina.
  15. wojo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Thor
    my point is that you cant even compare an otc supplement to fina.
    ok both fina and 1-test r steroids..this sis common knowlegde,both can be used transdermally..i wanted to know which was more effective via this delivery method..i know that fina would kick 1-test's ass if injected..but like i said im a a certified maniac on fina so im going on 1-test(i cant handle a lot of stims either im just high strung)
  16. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by wojo


    ok both fina and 1-test r steroids..this sis common knowlegde,both can be used transdermally..i wanted to know which was more effective via this delivery method..i know that fina would kick 1-test's ass if injected..but like i said im a a certified maniac on fina so im going on 1-test(i cant handle a lot of stims either im just high strung)
    Fina is more potent no matter how you deliver it.
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  17. pjorstad's Avatar
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    Most of fina's potency is actually in its CNS stimulation! 1-test is about 2 times as anabolic and i believe 2 times as androgenic as test prop mg per mg. Fina is 2 times as anabolic and 3 times as androgenic. I may be wrong on the 1-test androgenic ratio, it may be a little less or a little more but its definitely a lot less then fina's.


    Patrick arnold says that the differences are not that far off as far as GAINS. Par deus has been quoted as saying fina is probably 1/3 to 1/4 stronger mg per mg but im not sure if he is talking anabolically or androgneically or what.


    I hate 4-AD because of the bloat and the lack of fat loss but its necessary with 1-test if you don't want to be a zombie. My cows don't need a libido and in fact Iwant to get rid of it, and its not affected in the fist 4 weeks anyways so fina only cycle for my cows is just perfect.
  18. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Most of fina's potency is actually in its CNS stimulation! 1-test is about 2 times as anabolic and i believe 2 times as androgenic as test prop mg per mg. Fina is 2 times as anabolic and 3 times as androgenic. I may be wrong on the 1-test androgenic ratio, it may be a little less or a little more but its definitely a lot less then fina's.


    Where did you get this? And I mean the ratios
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  19. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pjorstad

    Patrick arnold says that the differences are not that far off as far as GAINS. Par deus has been quoted as saying fina is probably 1/3 to 1/4 stronger mg per mg but im not sure if he is talking anabolically or androgneically or what.


    I hate 4-AD because of the bloat and the lack of fat loss but its necessary with 1-test if you don't want to be a zombie.
    '
    In terms of overall gains they are similar but in terms of body composition and strength its not even close.


    How does 4-ad have anything to do with fat loss? Just because your retaining water doesn't mean your not losing fat. In fact, it can help in some instances.
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  20. pjorstad's Avatar
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    In the all about fina thread in here they talk about fina's ratios. For 1-test, patrick arnold has posted on it being 200 percent more anabolic then test prop. For the androgenicity i remember it having lower androgenicity then anabolically from what par deus or patrick arnold has posted but not sure exactly what it is, it might be less then 2 times as androgenic which is believable since it makes me feel like a zombie.
  21. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    In the all about fina thread in here they talk about fina's ratios. For 1-test, patrick arnold has posted on it being 200 percent more anabolic then test prop. For the androgenicity i remember it having lower androgenicity then anabolically from what par deus or patrick arnold has posted but not sure exactly what it is, it might be less then 2 times as androgenic which is believable since it makes me feel like a zombie.
    Ok. I thought you had a study or something I was unaware of. Most of it is all theory and speculation anyway.
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  22. pjorstad's Avatar
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    In terms of overall gains they are similar but in terms of body composition and strength its not even close.


    Body composition changes are not close/?? Are you saying more fat is burned on a fina cycle or something??? Patrick arnold says there is no such thing as special fat burning properties of fina. I don't know maybe the extra stimulation from the androgenicity makes you burn more fat ?????

    As far as strength your right because its more androgenic.
  23. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    In terms of overall gains they are similar but in terms of body composition and strength its not even close.


    Body composition changes are not close/?? Are you saying more fat is burned on a fina cycle or something??? Patrick arnold says there is no such thing as special fat burning properties of fina. I don't know maybe the extra stimulation from the androgenicity makes you burn more fat ?????

    As far as strength your right because its more androgenic.
    Body composistion doens't mean fat loss. Its mean quality gains. You get more lean gains and quality gains with fina than 1-test. Also fina depresses lipogenisis when competeing estrogen is not present. Hence you get a harder look when on fina.

    1 StJohn LC, Ekeren PA, Crouse JD, Schanbacher BD, Smith SB, lipogenesis in adipose tissue from ovariectomized and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and/or implanted with trenbolone acetate, J Anim Sci 1987 May, 64 (5) : 1428-33
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  24. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pjorstad

    Body composition changes are not close/?? Are you saying more fat is burned on a fina cycle or something??? Patrick arnold says there is no such thing as special fat burning properties of fina. I don't know maybe the extra stimulation from the androgenicity makes you burn more fat ?????

    Your right, physical fat loss does not occur, but bf% lower because of the lean gains made. Since it aids in the depression of lipogensis, your get cleaner, harder, and more lean gains with fina. 1-Test has not been shown to do this, yet.
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  25. pjorstad's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    Your right, physical fat loss does not occur, but bf% lower because of the lean gains made. Since it aids in the depression of lipogensis, your get cleaner, harder, and more lean gains with fina. 1-Test has not been shown to do this, yet.


    Thanks a lot bobo. Im not anti-fina or anything actually im probably the opposite as i just spent a lot on it for my heiffers for upcoming cycle

    Just want to be objective thats all. So no other steroid at this point will suppress fat storage when estrogen is reduced or blocked?? What makes fina so special chemically that it would cause this but others wouldn't, do you know????
  26. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Well, an increase in Test is always good for fat loss, while dieting. But in terms of another steroid having the same properties as fina, there is none that I know of. As for why, I don't know. A lot of things about fina are not understood. Its popular because you get a harder look while substantial gains are made. Its similar to Winny but you don't get the same gains. Winny seems to give an even harder, more vascular look, but less gains. Usually they are both incorporated in cutting cycle with you using Winny towards the end.
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  27. pjorstad's Avatar
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    I can't wait till i can evaluate soon.

    Im going for the saran wrap and 100 percent DSMO method at 240 mg. Yes im hardcore but i aint getting laid right now so i don't give a crap


    Ive used up to 266 mg of 1-test before but it was avants gel so i should get quite a bit more absorption.( 1/3 more im guessing). I estimate about 30 percent absorption. Yes i know some people say its much higher but i don't believe it one bit. Patrick arnold says 10-20 percent, par deus says dsmo method is 20-25 percent. Ill just say 30 percent to help even out for the people who claim 50 percent +!
  28. Matthew D's Avatar
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    I will agree with Bobo on the test level affecting the fatloss while dieting.. my natural test levels have dropped to the bottom of the low normal range and it has been almost impossible for me to get fat off.. but here soon.. getting alittle help from the doc in the test department
  29. John Benz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by wojo
    im debating between fina or 1-test for my cattle..for those who have used both for there cattle which was more potent transdermally
    This was recently discussed at length over at bb.com. Here are a couple of quotes.
    Originally posted by wardog
    I do not care what the literature says in regards to this. As a real life user of both, I will say 1-test never came close to the effects and gains of trenbolone for ME.

    Secondly, if I am going to do an androgen, I would much rather do one that makes me energetic and agressive (trenbolone) then lethargic and unmotivated (1-test)

    Trenbolone for me..transformed my physique. 1-test gave me lots of sides, very little gains, and bad estrogen rebound post cycle. Just MY experience, so no tearing my head off with textbook examples.
    Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
    It is hard to tell exactly how tren compares to 1-test from the animal test charts i have.

    1-test is around 200% as anabolic as test prop by injection.

    tren acetate is around 500% as potent as nandrolone acetate by injection.

    Now they use two different control compounds here so direct comparison is not easy.

    However, from my guess and from other stuff I have read, tren acetate is probably considerably more potent than 1-test. However, that does not mean 1-test is weak, it just means that tren acetate is very potent.

    Now, I also pointed out that some people end up becoming non-responders to tren acetate after using it alot. These people might switch to 1-test and suddenly find some growth again.

    Bottom line though is that tren acetate is probably considerably stronger then 1-test
    Even though PA mentions injection, he was responding to queries about transdermal fina.

    K (same) has said just about the same thing as Wardog, and on a personal note, a good friend who is an ex-juicer told me there is absolutely no comparison between his own homebrew transdermal fina, and one+, which he liked just fine. But was emphatic that fina was considerably stronger.
  30. pjorstad's Avatar
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    John benz you can only grow muscle so fast so if you can gain 8-10 lbs of muscle in 5 weeks(based on my experience) with a 4-AD and 1-test cycle im not sure if fina by itself will provide much better mucle gains. Ive always believed its not possible to gain more then 2lbs of muscle a TRUE muscle even on roids unless muscle memory + great genetics are a part of the formula. Can you clear up any misunderstandings for me. It would be great to know you can more muscle but i don't see how it can be that much more.
  31. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    John benz you can only grow muscle so fast so if you can gain 8-10 lbs of muscle in 5 weeks(based on my experience) with a 4-AD and 1-test cycle im not sure if fina by itself will provide much better mucle gains. Ive always believed its not possible to gain more then 2lbs of muscle a TRUE muscle even on roids unless muscle memory + great genetics are a part of the formula. Can you clear up any misunderstandings for me. It would be great to know you can more muscle but i don't see how it can be that much more.
    I did a fina only cycle for 4 weeks and gained 14lbs, and kept 12. I'm currently at 237.
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