If SD is an oral Masteron clone, why do people say it's only good for bulking
03-22-2010 05:07 PM
If SD is an oral Masteron clone, why do people say it's only good for bulking
SD aka Methasteron (Methyl Masteron) , Drostanolone.
Why is is so many people advise against SD for a cut, and say it's a better wet bulker. Maybe this is just the impression I get from guys at the gym. Well take a closer look at the composition of MASTERON, the injectable steroid SD was designed to make orally available.
NOTICE: This information is for entertainment purposes ONLY!
Pharmaceutical Name: drostanolone (as propionate)
Chemical structure: 2 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
Molecular weight of base and ester: 360.5356
Effective dose: 100 mg every 2-3 days
Average Street-price: $15-25 per ampul ($30-50 per two ampul package)
Available Doses: 50 mg/ml in 1 or 2 ml vials
Brands & Products:
Syntex Masteril (GB, BG) 50 mg/ml in 2 ml vials (100mg)
Metormon (o.c.) (ES) 50 mg/ml in 2 ml vials (100mg)
Sarva-Syntex / Cilag Masteron (B,PT) 50 mg/ml in 2 ml vials (100mg)
GrĂ¼nenthal Masterid (o.c.) (G) 50 mg/ml in 2 ml vials (100mg)
Shionogi Mastisol (Japan) 5% injection sol.
Cassenne Permastril (o.c.) (FR) 50 mg/ml in 2 ml vials (100mg)
Unknown company Drolban (o.c.) 50 mg/ml in 1 ml vial
Masteron is hard to find these days, if at all, and that's quite a shame for many competing bodybuilders because in terms of achieving the best results while shedding body-fat, nothing really beats drostanolone. Drostanolone is structurally a 2-methylated form of the hormone dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is formed when testosterone interacts with the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme. DHT is dreaded by many who fear androgenic side-effects such as increased acne and body hair, loss of hair and prostate hypertrophy. 5-alpha-reduction often mediates or speeds up such processes because DHT binds to the androgen receptor 3-4 times better than testosterone. That means androgenically speaking, no steroid is quite as powerful as DHT.
For those looking to reduce body-fat and water retention such a compound is literally a dream. Drostanolone, being 5-alpha reduced, cannot form estrogen upon interaction with the aromatase enzyme yet still shows a very high affinity for it. Because it takes up so much of the aromatase enzyme, yet is refrained from actually using it by its structural make-up, it reduces the amount of estrogen formed1 from other steroids as well because there are less aromatase enzymes to be used by those compounds to form estrogen with. This made stacking with slightly aromatizing compounds such as boldenone much more bearable as it eliminated even the slight aromatisation of such substances. So for bodybuilders the use of drostanolone is not only in limiting estrogens in question, but also eliminating possible estrogen formation from other steroids used during this time for increased anabolic or anti-catabolic activity. This because, especially for larger bodybuilders, drostanolone alone does not suffice to retain the maximum amount of weight.
The reduction of estrogenic capacity of course made drostanolone ill-suited for use as a mass-builder. In fact the gains on it were quite limited. Someone seeking to gain muscle mass rarely, if ever, resorted to a DHT compound. But coupled to its extreme androgenic qualities it lead to the perfect compound to retain strength and mass while shedding body-fat. The absence of estrogen refrained it from increasing water or salt retention, and there is evidence that the androgenic component may expedite the fat loss process2. The exact mechanims by which a rise in androgens stimulates fat loss is not known, but it is theorized that it may be due to catecholamine-induced (epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine) lipolysis, caused by the androgen increasing the number of beta-adrenergic receptors (the primary triggers for fat mobilization) on the membrane surface of fat cells. It is my understanding however that the noted decrease in body-fat is mainly due to a slight increase in lean mass and a stagnation of the body-fat, automatically resulting in a loss of body-fat in percentages, after recalibration.
This would also highly promote its use for power- and weightlifters as they compete in weight classes. Drostanolone can promote the increased strength while keeping body-fat the same or even lowering it. Allowing for an increased perfomance without the risk of being cast into a higher and more difficult weight class.
One possible use for drostanolone during the off-season, when gaining mass, may be DHT's affinity for the binding proteins of sex steroids : sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin. Normally a large amount of testosterone cannot be used by the body in anabolic functions because it is mostly bound to these plasma proteins. When testosterone is administered along with a DHT-compound, the DHT will take up most of the protein and allow the testosterone to exert its massive anabolic effects, thereby increasing the possible gains, especially in lower doses. Of course, due to the limited availability of drostanolone and its high price, this is the type of situation one usually resorts to mesterolone (1-methyl-DHT as in proviron) for. Its cheaper and equally effective to serve this particular purpose (but notably weaker in other aspects, since like DHT its readily deactivated in muscle tissue by the 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme).
When discussing the side-effects, for once I'm going to go easy. This is because most people are well aware of the side-effects of DHT compounds and scared to death of them because androgenic side-effects caused by mass compounds like testosterone are largely attributed to the formation of DHT at the 5AR receptor enzyme. This may be a time to step back and look what sort of damage DHT can realistically do. An increase in acne is almost always noted, but if that doesn't seem to bother you with other steroids, then why with a short-acting androgen like drostanolone ? Hair loss seems to be the major concern, but if you've dealt with the use of steroids before or are educated to their effects you are aware that it merely speeds up a genetically pre-existing condition of male pattern hair loss (androgenetic alopecia). This condition only occurs in 30% of men and can easily be detected by examining the men on your mother's side of the family. Androgenetic alopecia is passed on through the X chromosome and thus in matri-linear fashion (mothers side). The rule of thumb being quite simple : if you have it, don't touch this compound, if you don't, then you don't have to worry. Yes, it really can be that simple.
That only leaves benign prostate hypertrophy (enlarged prostate) and the related conditions such as prostate cancer. Recent evidence shows that estrogen too is a mediator in the development of this condition, which would lead us to draw the conclusion that a purely androgenic compound, lest taken with a highly aromatizing substance, has considerably less risk for aggravating such a condition than DHT formed by testosterone. These last two paragraphs to show that perhaps the side-effects of DHT are largely exaggerated. But that doesn't mean they just went away because I said so, extreme caution needs to be exercised by individuals at risk for hair loss and prostate problems. But to add one last bit of perspective, keep in mind that this compound is injected and spread across the body evenly. When DHT is formed by testosterone, its formed in androgen specific tissues, meaning its mostly concentrated in scalp, skin and prostate, which isn't the case here.
Perhaps the most favorable effect of drostanolone is that it can increase muscle hardness and density in the athlete, giving him a more complete and finished look when he steps on stage. A lot of pure androgens have this effect. But with all of them you need an already rather low body-fat level for it to take full effect. A lot of people who had heard of this effect experimented with drostanolone and were sorely disappointed because they were too fat when they started.
Drostanolone is usually a propionate, which is a short-acting ester. That means frequent injections (every 24-48 hours) are needed for maximum effect. This can be quite a pain and cause abscesses due to the many injection marks at the same site, but this has positives too : Drostanolone propionate can be hid from detection in two weeks or less, making it safe for use up to that point without fear of being exposed at a drug test. Not that it would necessarily interrupt plans if it was, because eventhough chromatographic tests have been able to detect DHT compounds since 1997, they are rarely implemented in most sports. No doubt that gave it an edge over things like stanazolol for many athletes.
One major downside is that as time goes by the odds of finding Masteron are quite slim. It hasn't been made in quite a while and its safe to say that 90% of all you'd find out there are fakes. On some foreign markets there are some masteron analogs available, but even these are quite rare and very expensive on European and American domestic markets.
Stacking and Use:
Drostanolone is not a drug that requires the use of alternate drugs. People with a tendency for hypertension may want to take the necessary precautions, but drostanolone does not aromatize at any rate making the use of anti-estrogens irrelevant, both during a cycle to prevent side-effects as post-cycle to boost natural testosterone (E.g. Clomid). There is simply no need for alternate drugs and because its an esterified injectable there is no hazard to the liver worth mentioning either.
Best use is to inject 50-100 mg every day to every other day, depending on your degree of expertise in training and your size of course. Most beginners will be quite satisfied with either 50 mg every other day or 100 mg every 3 days. Mostly used in conjunction with other drugs as DHT is quite easily de-activated in the body (althouth drostanolone's 2-methyl group protects it somewhat from deactivation by stabilizing the 3-keto group).
Drostanolone is best stacked with something in the nature of boldenone (Equipoise) at 300 mg a week. The boldenone gives increased vascularity and the drostanolone adds muscle density while the stack as a whole preserves muscle mass. Although its rare that someone opts for a stack of two compounds with largely similar action, something can be said about stacking drostanolone with Stanazolol (Winstrol/stromba). The drostanolone doesn't stay active at the AR very much, often being drawn to SHBG, albumin, aromatase or 3bHSD, but still adds distinct hardness and boosts strength to some degree. Adding Winstrol, which has higher activity at the Androgen Receptor and some affinity for the progesterone receptor may form quite a synergistic stack. It would also be safe to throw in some nandrolone (Deca-Durabolin) at 200-300 mg per week.
One would almost never use drostanolone while trying to gain mass, except in order to block the aromatase enzyme, which forms estrogen. But a better option there is Proviron, an analog DHT-compound (mesterolone) which is basically only used for that purpose. Drostanolone is too expensive and too hard to come by to employ it for that reason.
03-22-2010 05:29 PM
this is an interesting question.. ive noticed for myself that sd has a very very good hardening effect.. my muscles get dry and hard at first and i become very vascular.. somewhere around the middle of the second begining of third week you just start blowing up off it though.. i guess its from the glycogen and water being sucked into the muscles.. i gained like 7 or 8 pounds by the second week on a cut where i was not even trying to gain weight.. the next thing i notice is you are so damn hungry its very hard to cut.. i could not stop eatting.. espeically post workout i ate ungodly amounts of food.. its very hard to fill yourself up on just lean meats and protein with no carbs.. last thing is people use this compound without test and i dunno if its just cause your horomones are out of whack or because your always hungry but it seems like you just crave carbs.. i would eat carbs of morning oatmeal.. oats in my pwo shake and brown rice in my meal after post workout.. but by the end of the night i was just always craving carbs.. also it is very very hard to do cardio on sd.. i suffered through trying to do 30min 4 times a week.. it was very tough..
03-22-2010 05:36 PM
it can work for a cut, but you are missing the piece of fact that the addition of the methyl to make it orally available changes how it acts. Just because two compounds share a similar molecular shape doesn't mean that the differences don't cause a huge difference in effect. Overall thats basically the point isn't it? 20mg of superdrol orally is vastly stronger any way you slice it than 200mg masteron injected.
Originally Posted by EustisPanther
But you can use SD as a cutter, bigzach is right about some of the downfalls to it though. Lethargy stays high as well as hunger, so you take in more carbs to combat it, plus pumps stay bad particularly back + shin so you are less likely to do cardio. At a low dose though say 10mg a day, its not bad for most people, and if you are a low side effect person then 20 a day isnt' bad either. Also microdrol the sublingual SD seems to work well on a cut.
03-22-2010 05:41 PM
Thanks for the feedback... I don't claim that it is ONLY good for one or the other. I do support the belief however that it can be used effectively for both depending on the users goals, experience, and nutrition.
Originally Posted by EasyEJL
03-22-2010 06:56 PM
The dimethylation makes it act very differently but It's still not fair to say m-drol is only good for bulking IMO, It's all about your diet!!!
03-22-2010 08:04 PM
So due to the effects of sd on estrogen, I wouldn't need to consider stacking it with epi for the water retention issues? I am interested in running sd, and have considered for a long while I just don't want to bloat up like a whale. if sd wont bloat me incredibily, or epi wont help with that, what will?
03-22-2010 08:41 PM
being cautious of what carbs you eat, water consumption, and sodium levels. most guys don't really balloon on superdrol like on phera for instance. its still a tighter look.
03-22-2010 09:24 PM
I've experienced both... My first M-Drol cycle I consumed everything In sight and I gained 27lbs in just over 3 weeks... alot of fat/water but a solid 15lbs of lean mass.
Originally Posted by EasyEJL
Second run was more precise on the nutritional side and I dieted hard. Preserving all muscle mass while dropping 5% BF
03-22-2010 10:46 PM
i used it for a cut, helped curb my appetite actually, lost some fat but man did i sleep/feel lethargic with the lack of carbs. o and shin pumps doing cardio are super painful
03-22-2010 11:00 PM
I used M Drol for a cut stacked with Clenbuterol, CLA and Furazadrol. You can eat carbs to tame the 2nd/3rd week hunger and cut down on protein. You get hard as rock and start melting fat and STILL end up heavier(but in a good way) than when you started. But the back pumps are a BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My diet was mainly fruit from 5 am through noon, salad with lean meat from noon through dinner and a protein shake at night after a 2 mile run before bed(to get metabolism pumped to burn at night.Also at leat 6 quarts of water and sun tea all day. Next time I may throw in an HGH product before bed.
03-22-2010 11:06 PM
Yes... The lethargy is terrible for some.. Makes me want to hibernate lol.. and the back pumps can be so bad at times I'm popping 800mg of ibuprofen pre-workout just to feel comfortable. I normally wouldn't mind back pumps, but I have a lower back issue bc I dislocated my spinal column and my hip bone a few years ago after being hit in a football and haven't been the same since.
03-23-2010 09:45 PM
That's probably not a very good idea.. A little extra Kidney stress on cycle is not good.
Originally Posted by EustisPanther
03-23-2010 09:53 PM
Not it's not, but I'll risk it. I have some nasty back pain from my previous injuries.
Originally Posted by Bigchourico
anything you suggest that would relieve pain without risking extra strain.
03-23-2010 09:59 PM
I personally use alot of fish oil and cissus not sure which is working, or even some days if it's working.But I would save the 800mgs(high dose)Ibuprofen untill after cycle. I know being in pain sucks but you gotta deal with it.Sometimes it means changing around your exercises, sometimes it means lighten the weights..
Originally Posted by EustisPanther
03-24-2010 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by bigzach1234
I've used almost every AAS and DS out there besides the more exotic and newer drugs like Bolasterone. This will be my first go with Halotestin and I haven't tried M1T, injectable 1-test cyp, Primobolan (only due to the cost and wondering if its really goona be primo or Eq) my source carries it so I should be gtg and lastly I've never used Superdrol. So in your opinion, due to the increased appetite, water retention, glycogen storage it serves as more as a bulker? I came to this conclusion when I told my training partner that super supposedly works in both bulks and cutters but I did state I didn't have any actual exp using it. Well, he gains ez. So ez in fact he has to keep his Test@250 or he will gain lots of water and weight and he wants to cut. What I noticed in him was that his weight shot up after 2 weeks and he was attempting to reduce calories but he complained that he was hungry all the time. So he said the strength wasn't quite as good as tren ace but that it was very good as all of his lifts went up. He went from 242 to 256 on his second cycle which was test, tren ace (stopped at 4 weeks cus he was broke and nvr plans his $ right) and super. He didn't say his cardio was affected but, ik right now tren ace is ****ing my cardio up and always does and mighta shoulda kept the EQ going cus that does give me endurance. Like tren, the superdol made him hungry all the time, as tren increases my appetite more than eq does. Many are the opposite tho. So basically, its more suited for bulking then? I once heard that the reason why orals make u lose ur appetite was due to the fact that it impaired liver function. Idk, if this theory holds any weight tho. I can say that I get major appetite increases from pheraplex, trenbolone acetate and EQ. It seems on the avg, many claim to have received a 30 pound increase on all major lifts, was this the case with you as well? Thanks
03-24-2010 07:15 PM
i thought SD was more like anadrol? perhaps i heard it wrong
03-24-2010 07:28 PM
Anadrol will Bloat you up alot more than Superdrol. IMO Superdrol gives more quality muscle gains
Originally Posted by tigerbunny
03-24-2010 07:39 PM
I think it definetly is more suited for bulking.. thats why u see ppl all around the board gaining 15-20 pounds off cycles of sd.. then again honestly if your disciplined you can cut on anything.. looking at the pros cutting on dbol and anadrol... althought theyr more suited for bulks also.. the thing with superdrol is you get hard and vascular but somehow your weight just keeps rising.. i didnt start running e/c/a with it till the last week of the sd.. but i feel taking something to curb your appetite would be extremely beneficial.. how much tren ace killed your cardio? I have some right now.. that im waiting to use... thinking of maybe throwing in some short ester eq instead tho...im just on prop now..was on superdrol a few weeks ago.. ive heard all the stuff about you lose your appetite from orals because of impaired liver function.. i think its cause your horomones are out of whack and your shutdown though.. hell the only time i really didnt wanna eat was on a supposed nonmethyl called trenadrol.. and litterally as my balls got smaller and i felt more shutdown and lethargy.. the less i wanted to eat....
Originally Posted by mj34
O and about the strength increases.. superdrol was fantastic for that..its tough for me to tell which was better for strength in terms of superdrol and or pplex.. but i think i put on more weight with pplex so strength was a little better.. also ran it for five weeks with test prop... with the superdrol i had some amazing increases in the 18-19 days i ran it at low dose.. but my balls werre shrinking up bad and i was getting some major lethargy.. and i had no hcg on hand .. so i stopped the sd and within a week my balls came back to size even while continuing test p
03-24-2010 08:25 PM
How in the hell did Superdol escape the ban? Out of them all, its by far the most toxic compound of the bunch. And what wasn't in banned somewhere between 2003-2004? And Bold the eq prohormone gets banned, wtf? Why was Bold included, I nvr tried it but it appeared to me to be a waste. Hell, I can get a 20ml vial of EQ for 100 bucks and with that stuff wasn't it like 40 or 50 dollars a bottle and didn't u need like 3 bottles? And what maybe 20% if that was converted to the parent hormone EQ? And phera, **** I loved that ****. I still have 8 bottles with 40mgs of 19 nor tren in it. The ultra mass stack by APS which had 10mg phera and 40mg 19nor in it, stuff was great. Phera I liked better than Dbol. It made me feel good like it lifted my mood, and jesus that stuff caused me to eat as much as tren ace and EQ. Along with var, winny and proviron its my fav. Ik it was somewhat liver toxic but it didn't seem to pose much threats. I guess the fact that it was an actual steroid is why it was banned, but then again superdrol is a steroid and it somehow escaped the ban, how I don't know. And lastly 19 nor. This was a great prohormone. I don't believe it converts to tren but it was decent for recomp, strength and aggression. Actually, on 19 nor tren I was more aggressive and irratated and had a little trouble sleeping as well as night sweats and on the real Trenbolone Acetate I get major strength gains, recomp is the best, no trouble at all sleeping, I'm not overly aggressive and only minor nite sweats. It just goes to show you how different we are and how some can and do get horrible sides while fortuantly I haven't. Thank god I haven't got the dreaded tren cough. I felt like it was gonna happen I got that nasty burning and taste and felt a burn and tightness in my chest and I thot oh ****, but it passed thank god. I watched my buddy cough his lungs up for a few mins after a tren shot and I thot he was gonna die.
Originally Posted by EasyEJL
03-24-2010 08:43 PM
Exactly, I have a friend who competes and his diet is dialed in and spot on and he has cut on Anadrol. Others have cut on dbol. Due to the anabolic properties it can help retain size and come in looking full. Of course, tren, t3, clen, winstrol, epi, ephedrine hcl, anavar and masteron are much better to suit these needs. Too many people rely on just taking a bunch of drugs to cut; instead they should be using smaller amounts; doing lots of cardio and monitering their diet closely. I see this happen all the time, a chick whose somewhat overweight decides to take Adderall and just stops eating except for maybe one meal a day. They feel ok at the time cause adderall is vry powerful and it gets rid of their appetite and gives them a ton of energy. However; when they runout or come off they have a rebound effect and they eat a lot and their weight goes up. My ex wife is one example. I gave her 500 adderall pills that I just saved cus I stopped using them for my add. And damn I sure wish I had them now cus add sux and because my previous doctor no longer practices in my state he says he is unable to pull my records up, so he says. Christ, since the death of my brother and my seperation which just happended late last year my focus and drive is gone. The nurse knew right away that I had ADD but my doc I guess wants to be a **** about it.
Originally Posted by h2bEK
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