Safest PH with regards to toxicity vs gains
- 04-19-2004, 10:18 PM
Safest PH with regards to toxicity vs gains
I am somewhat new to the PH scene but I have a question about gains vs toxicity.
The new methyls that have been coming out are very interesting and I have tried several with good results from all I have tried. M1t, M5aa, and just starting M4OHN with mdien soon to follow.
My question is what PH would you GURU'S say has the best risk/reward ratio?
Obviously I am looking for compounds that actually work well, so lets not consider the weak "semi-worthless compounds" as I know there are a few of those out there. I would also consider IGF as I am sure this is probably the least damaging to the body.
I have heard great things about m1,4add however the effective dose seems to be in the 40-60mg range. I currently weigh 255, I have been as high as 287 and have been training most of my life. I am trying to make a comeback of sorts without breaking the law. I used to dance on the dark side but I had a run in with the law and unfortunately this is not an option.
I have managed to keep my organs in good shape after 5 years of juicing, and I don't want to trash them now. Looking for a little input here, Thanks.
- 04-19-2004, 10:46 PM
I'm not a guru, but i would say its safe to say that anything thats not methylated that gives good gains is the winner here.
04-19-2004, 10:59 PM
what PH would be the big winner in that category? Are these injectable or are the transdermals better. What PH would you think is the best non-methylated?
04-19-2004, 11:22 PM
04-19-2004, 11:22 PM
04-19-2004, 11:26 PM
A transdermal 1-ad and transdermal 4-ad whould be better than mag-10, but i can't say that for sure since i haven't taken it myself.
04-20-2004, 12:29 AM
My Plan is to try and get back to 280 or so probably using methyls and then try to use something safer to maintain.
Thanks for the input so far.
04-20-2004, 12:31 AM
04-20-2004, 12:36 AM
Ok injectables are gonna be better than transdermals (100% vs. 40% absorption). If you wanna go the legal route the injectables are legal possess, but not necessisarily legal to inject. 4AD-cyp or 4AD-prop would be like your Test base. 1-test-cyp is very strong at 200mg/eod. 5AA-cyp is supposed to be THE ****, but good luck finding any. 4-OHT-cyp or 4-OHT-deca should be available soon. www.designersupps.com
04-20-2004, 02:35 AM
I would say trans 4-ad is the safest pound for pound.
I think the conversion to test with 4ad is so low that the aromitization is not a problem.
However you still need the nolva on hand.
04-20-2004, 03:34 AM
While on 1400mg/week Pro-Sust (300mg 4AD-cyp+100mg4AD-prop/ml) 2 weeks in: Testosterone 1382.89; Cortisol 12.66; LH 0.00 FSH 0.00; Estradiol 85.90; Progesterone 0.57; Prolactin 16.48Originally Posted by Billy the kid
Aromitization might just be a problem for some.
04-20-2004, 02:17 PM
04-20-2004, 02:38 PM
04-20-2004, 02:43 PM
04-20-2004, 02:49 PM
LOL. I remember those nasty tasting things. ****ing licorice flavored crap pills. Hold under tongue or cheek for 45 minutes, ****, tasted like Yagermeister.Originally Posted by bioman
04-20-2004, 05:57 PM
04-20-2004, 06:06 PM
04-20-2004, 09:21 PM
good ol' 1test and 4AD takes the cake - nothing wrong with 15-20 lbs of quality gains in 4 weeks with a nice smooth ride out...
04-20-2004, 09:36 PM
04-20-2004, 09:54 PM
supersoldier, you are wrong. but this is a common myth i keep seeing pop up. "not necessarily legal to inject".
there is no crime to inject ANY substance that is legal. as long as a given PH remains legal, then injecting it (or water, koolaid, grape nehi or anything else) is not illegal.
frankly, even if a substance is ILLEGAL, it is POSSESSING/SELLING the substance that is illegal. the ACT of injecting is not illegal.
now, in some jurisdictions, being under the influence of certain controlled substances e.g. heroin is illegal, but there is
NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT INJECTING A PH.
period. end of story. i wish this myth would end.
fwiw, it is arguably illegal to MARKET a PH intended for injection. this could run the SELLER afoul of the FDA, but to my knowledge this has never happened.
however, that's tangential to the issue involving the end user.
i'll make this as simple as possible.
if a PH is legal to possess, it is legal to convert to an injectable, and it is legal to inject.
04-21-2004, 12:45 PM
wow, that is good to know jjjjd. i had been wondering thsat for a while. anyone else agree or have an opinion on this?
04-21-2004, 01:01 PM
I dont see how they can make injecting illegal. They sell pins at every pharmacy.
It is the substance you are injecting that may be controlled.
But, rolling papers are illegal if you have pot, they can add a paraphernalia charge.
Pins may be along those lines as well.
04-21-2004, 01:32 PM
I think injectables and needles are in a grey area, a "behind the counter" kind of thing, because unlike rolling papers and pills, the delivery method in and of itself can cause serious problems to dumb users...much worse than burning your lips on a joint or getting a stomach ache and the $hit$ from too much vitamin C.
I pretty sure the act of injecting anything isn't a crime in and of itself. It's the substance that can make the delivery method illegal, as Billy The Kid pointed out, and the advertising of OTC injectables is illegal as well, citing obvious potential for harm.
It may seem to long-term injectable users to be stupid and silly or a double standard, but read a few posts about embolisms, infections, and hitting veins by first-time users, and you'll see that it makes sense to limit access to injectables. As jjjd point out, they're not illegal though.
I know it's wishful thinking, but I wish there was some test you could take (no pun intended) like a gun-owner must take, in order to get a OTC card for PHs-->this would do three things:
1. Limit amount of irresonpsible use and use by minors of PHs
2. Allow PHs to continue to be sold w/o perscriptions or FDA intervention
3. Provide a source of funding (via a $10 fee for the card or class) for the supplement lobby to further protection of our rights.
04-21-2004, 03:18 PM
04-21-2004, 04:07 PM
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