I've discussed this with others before. Even though certain compounds (SD) don't aromatize, the increases in your testosterone levels will aromatize. Your body will sense the extra test and call for more estrogen production to achieve homeostasis.
Why do you think some guys during puberty get gyno? They're not doing wet roids.......it's just the increase in their testosterone levels. The body will call for more aromatase enzymes to be produced which will latch on to testosterone and convert it to estrogen. Os so I've read......
But I'm certainly no expert in these matters. Just a student.
I always toss at least 10mg. of Epi into my cycles even when running "dry" compounds. I figure better safe than sorry.
But like you say....to each their own.
There is no increase in test while on SD or any other aas except if u inject test or take 4AD. If anything there will be a shutdown of test production because you are now supplying an exogenous horomone. But u can also get the release of bound test which can be converted to estrogen. It's a complicated process of how aas and homones work in the body. You have many factors that can influence gains and side effects.
03-12-2010 12:57 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
Ok gang nice discussion while gone - still debating probably lower dose but still in talks,
But how does the 5/3/1 method look as far as weights or do more traditional?
I do appeciate the help and will look at all aspects.
It doesn't sound to me like your really even ready to do any kind of cycle. How long have you even been training? If you are going to jump in you would be a fool to stack anything. Just run the epi at 20 20 30 30 and you will get good gains being it's your first ph cycle. I think your plan is going to get you hurt.
03-12-2010 08:35 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
Originally Posted by sw bill
It doesn't sound to me like your really even ready to do any kind of cycle. How long have you even been training? If you are going to jump in you would be a fool to stack anything. Just run the epi at 20 20 30 30 and you will get good gains being it's your first ph cycle. I think your plan is going to get you hurt.
i been training for 3 years and suffered an injury last year and maiking my way back. The name newbie2bb is what i am on other forums so i didnt feel the need to change it . I figured people would see the wisdom i have by the fact that i listen and follow instructions of other and my mentors and how i conduct myself in the forums and thru other methods. I would also like to remind you that there are other people out there illlegal doing this and much crazier stuff.You should at least give credit to the fact that i am weighing all options and been flat out honest of who i am and then being a learner. I also have aligned myself with people who have been in the buisness and taking far harsher cycles than i am and will follow there foot steps... but thanks you
03-14-2010 08:32 AM
newbie2bb
Guest
The results
Due to the overwhelming cries of the forum. We have decided (others weighed in) that we will stick with this formula for now HOWEVER LOWERING HAVOC . and run 4 weeks of 20mg on the havoc and m-drol. Deemed that some were voicing that 30 mg was too much for a first stack. Hence now a new plan. Workout plan is going to be started the day of training on monday.
what i will be doing is 3 full body work outs a week. I will be hitting the major 3: bench , squats and deads twice a week. then middle day accessory work. I also will be adding some joint support into the mix .
Suggestions for joint support? Cirrus i have heard or is there a cheaper way? glucosamine plus _________?
-------But thanks to all who weighed in and all factors was considered . now on to the workouts and progress !!!----
I'd run one alone then pct and a month to be free as a bird then run epi and pct, trust me you dont want two methyls...
not tryin to jack the thread but don't you mean run one compound alone, pct, then 2 months to be free as a bird?
Cycle+PCT= Time off
Correct?
I've read and be taught that the number of weeks on cycle and weeks of PCT equals how much time you need to take off before doing another hormone. Though, I sometimes question this b/c if I recover quickly after a month of PCT from a 6 wk cycle of Hdrol for example, why should I wait the 10 weeks after to take another steroid?
03-14-2010 05:06 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
Originally Posted by rsr08
not tryin to jack the thread but don't you mean run one compound alone, pct, then 2 months to be free as a bird?
Cycle+PCT= Time off
Correct?
I've read and be taught that the number of weeks on cycle and weeks of PCT equals how much time you need to take off before doing another hormone. Though, I sometimes question this b/c if I recover quickly after a month of PCT from a 6 wk cycle of Hdrol for example, why should I wait the 10 weeks after to take another steroid?
I actually am double stacking this.
03-14-2010 05:08 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
OK gang i added
Animal Flex
joint supports so i don't dry out
03-14-2010 05:51 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
The work outs !! 3 full bodies .
here it is .. I tried to lay it out for any first timers viewing logs . make it easy to read.
warm-up
2x5=(had to do with assisted machine) @7(34 pounds)=2x5
1x5=(had to do with assisted machine) @6(28 pounds)=1x5
work-sets
3x5=(had to do with assisted machine) @5(22 pounds)=3x5 --lower assistance next time
Good workout ...took 1 hour 10 min. mostly due to stacking weights and proper rest to recoop a little. Most have to stay cause either next time will totally fail on reps so will do same routine to build strength to hit it harder next time workout A comes along. but will gauge it in the gym. Seat calf raise felt odd gong to look for a machine cause of fact i dont think the machine i was on did full range . Other than that diet and the dosing schedule is on que. and making sure i do it ! So day 1 is down.
03-16-2010 05:36 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
Sides ..
told you this would be an unbias very honest log .
day 1::
on the Havoc/M-drol. I experienced a massive headache...trust me it was migrane status for those that have had them. Now i took one alieve and it was gone. So no big deal.
Day 2:
Havoc/Mdrol didnt wanna exprience the same massive headache so hence took 1 dose extra of hawthorn berries extract and no headache. so very please about that. and before those ask yes i did alot of water a day. believe me
Also very lathargic during the days. Not sure why but alot have experienced it so something u can push thru. so no worries. and to answer i take in enuf carbs and diet on cue when i take them . just happens i guess.
any tips or what to take to wake up? ...for me i drank a coke and was fine rest of day.
and yes i got enuf sleep 7 hours.
other than that nothing to worry about so far.
peace u all and thanks for reading
thought about doin cardio but i decided no due to fact i wanna build mass up
Alright please don't take this wrong, there is no way I can say it without sounding like ass but I think it needs to be said.
I said I didn't think you were ready for steroids and you answer was you have been lifting for 3 years and that I don't know anything about you. I think the fact that after 3 years of training and your not even close to benching your body weight proves you don't have your training in check. Not saying that benching is the holy Grail cause how much you bench doesn't mean **** but you lift stats does give us a idea of how you train.
Your stacking 2 fairly strong methy compounds, your gonna have sides like head aches, I don't care how much hb you take it's going to happen.
I am surprised you are have lethargy all ready but if you are this quick then get ready for it to get worse. Definently add in some dhea to fight it. I really like PP's dermacrine for this but that is another ph so I don't now it that would be the best for you since your already taking 2 at once, maybe others can chime in on that.
Honestly I am not tring to bash you or discourage you. I am just tring to help out where I can. I did things wrong enough when I started out but thanks to the helpful people on AM I got on track.
03-16-2010 07:31 PM
newbie2bb
Guest
Originally Posted by sw bill
Alright please don't take this wrong, there is no way I can say it without sounding like ass but I think it needs to be said.
I said I didn't think you were ready for steroids and you answer was you have been lifting for 3 years and that I don't know anything about you. I think the fact that after 3 years of training and your not even close to benching your body weight proves you don't have your training in check. Not saying that benching is the holy Grail cause how much you bench doesn't mean **** but you lift stats does give us a idea of how you train.
Your stacking 2 fairly strong methy compounds, your gonna have sides like head aches, I don't care how much hb you take it's going to happen.
I am surprised you are have lethargy all ready but if you are this quick then get ready for it to get worse. Definently add in some dhea to fight it. I really like PP's dermacrine for this but that is another ph so I don't now it that would be the best for you since your already taking 2 at once, maybe others can chime in on that.
Honestly I am not tring to bash you or discourage you. I am just tring to help out where I can. I did things wrong enough when I started out but thanks to the helpful people on AM I got on track.
i appreciate your help ..that i do . and again i realize the place ur coming from and not just the words that you wrote but i appreicate ur advice and will look into dhea and again I take the good and bad. However maybe from here on out you can focus on encourage me , even in the lifts that don't measure up to your standard but are PR's from me. We all start somewhere . at least i am doing it wisely and listening to other people as well as incorperating their ideals and wisdom.
Again I may be that person you say later on you know what . He knew his stuff ..he was honest. he did what he believed and he did it safely and took all precautions and he was on his first .would it be my choice of stacks,,no but he got guidance and learned all he could and followed all advice. and then out of habit i gain ur respect and i gain someone who says to another newbie go look at his log. thats how u do it.
and in the end u realize ...I followed my heart and did my best ..and for those out there i log'd the results.
For me its not gettin hoooge...its the journey to do something most say dont . or i cant. Not to prove them wrong but prove it can be done right. and thats how i live my life
P.s I know ur my biggest fan and i thank u for the support
The results 
The work outs !! 3 full bodies . 
Dosing cycle and times for newbies to see 
