4ad base powder to oil base formula help help

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    4ad base powder to oil base formula help help


    Ok along with my tren, test and slin. I wanted to as 4ad (why cuz I have a lot of the stuff in powder base and I liked it in the past.)



    Well the problem.



    Tried a few combos and got my first crash.



    Can some one post a formula that would work with oil , bb and ba %. I donít have any peg





    Thanks Broís

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    I hear the bases are quite painful. I'd go with a transdermal.
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    I would order some peg because I had in the past searched long and hard for this and found a thread on it somewhere It was like ba and substitute your bb with peg and it seemed to work for them. However it was like twice daily injections. I think that would suck.
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    thanks
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    It either won't go into solution or it will crash inside you with the peg and ba. I have tried everything I know and have not got the base to work. The only way I've found is to order the PH kit from animal. It's painless and works great, but I have no idea how to do it without the kit.

    By the way, his kit is somewhat slow release so you can go every day or every other day. Hope this helps.
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    i have tried peg, BA, BB as solvents, with oil as carrier with base 4-ad. it works.

    it seperates, but you shake it up before injection. works fine
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    i have tried peg, BA, BB as solvents, with oil as carrier with base 4-ad. it works.

    it seperates, but you shake it up before injection. works fine
    And chances are you will be a cripple for a week with a big lump of 4AD crystals grinding away at your muscle.

    You are on the right path with this combo, but something is needed that will hang around longer in the depot and keep the hormone in solution longer. I have no idea what it is. I wish Chemo could help us out on this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer
    And chances are you will be a cripple for a week with a big lump of 4AD crystals grinding away at your muscle.

    You are on the right path with this combo, but something is needed that will hang around longer in the depot and keep the hormone in solution longer. I have no idea what it is. I wish Chemo could help us out on this point.
    I don't know about 4AD but heres one that I use on Dbol and I know works with bold base.

    5% BA
    15 to 20% BB (depending on your tolance to it. )
    PEG to volume.

    Note: do not leave the BB out of this as the PEG will disperse WAY too fast without.

    Remember the adadge about free advice
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    Skye,

    I've used that or something very similar and it does work. 4AD base is another story. There's something about it that makes it very hard to work with.

    I'm about to give up and just start buying A's kits all the time because they're the only thing I've found that works with 4AD base.
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer
    Skye,

    I've used that or something very similar and it does work. 4AD base is another story. There's something about it that makes it very hard to work with.

    I'm about to give up and just start buying A's kits all the time because they're the only thing I've found that works with 4AD base.
    Ok, failing that have you tried guaucol?
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    Not yet. Guiacol and dimethyl chloride (aka methyl dichloride) are both on my list to try.

    At first look it appears that dimethyl chloride is very dangerous. After alot of searching, I finally found where it is used in the preparation of hormones for injection by the pharm industry. I plan on getting some info from of friend of mine who is a compounding pharmacist as to amounts and availability.
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    peg at about 10%, ba 5% bb 5% and oil as the carrier worked for 4-ad base and was not at all crippling. very pleasant, actually.

    STRAIGHT peg as carrier instead of oil was VERY crippling
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    peg at about 10%, ba 5% bb 5% and oil as the carrier worked for 4-ad base and was not at all crippling. very pleasant, actually.

    STRAIGHT peg as carrier instead of oil was VERY crippling
    PEG is very hydrophlic (spell) and will disperse rapidly in a depot. if you want to avoid this you need to mix it with a hydrophobic solvent as well. BB works fine at around 15 to 20 %. If you don't do this or the like the solvent will disperse and you will be hurting.
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    would someone post a link to the animal kits, I would like to check them out.
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    Skye, this is a question for you I have searched and you seem knowledgable what amphipathic solvents land most in the middle of hydrophilic and hydrophobic? wouldnt that be best something in the middle instead of something that is straight one way or the other because if something is directly hydrophobic wouldnt it never disperse properly into your body.

    I am only going into my second year of biomed so I may be wrong on this because we have not went this in depth yet but it seems as though this would be the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by friction515
    Skye, this is a question for you I have searched and you seem knowledgable what amphipathic solvents land most in the middle of hydrophilic and hydrophobic? wouldnt that be best something in the middle instead of something that is straight one way or the other because if something is directly hydrophobic wouldnt it never disperse properly into your body.

    I am only going into my second year of biomed so I may be wrong on this because we have not went this in depth yet but it seems as though this would be the case.
    Well first off there are other here that know more about this then I do. Also this is just my understanding and is subject to correction (JMO in other words).

    First off remember that terms like hydrophobic and hydrophilic are descriptive terms and are not absolutes. BB is practically insoluble, its not totally. I forget the actual number but it is small. Gasoline is very hydrophobic but water will dissolve enough to contaminate it.

    But even if BB were completely water insoluble that would not preclude the body from processing it eventually. We use items (metabolically speaking) all the time that arenít water-soluble. Cholesterol is a good example to use. This is not a water-soluble item but is present in the blood bound with lecithin. So the body does have the ability to process in some way the BB and other solvents we use. (I forget or donít know the exact mechanism for BB) BB is the best choice that is generally available so we tend to use it a lot.

    The problems with amphiphilic type solvents are the same as any other type of solvents we use. Namely there is a long list of criteria that must be meet in order to be used. It has to be relatively nontoxic, nonirritating, non reactive with the hormone being used, available in a form we can use, and it has to hold the hormone in solution both in bottle and depot. Most fail at this last one because they disperse to fast in the body, with the more water soluble ones dispersing faster the hydrophobic ones (generally speaking). Sense all amphiphilic substances are at least partially water soluble you donít get much by using them. Some of the amphiphilic solvents that have been used for gear (that I know of) are Ethyl lactate 687-47-8 and ethyl oleate 111-62-6

    Note that the nature of the gear/ester has a lot to do with all this as the effects are directly proportionate to there solubility parameters. This link can explain it better then I can: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...oid-esters.htm
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    Honestly, have no idea if this would work, but from my observations, 4ADne stays in a water solution for a decent amount of time, even at high doseages. Could you simply suspend the 4ADne in water, BA, BB and just get a very quick acting compound? I am having the same problems as PROFBIV. I melted down my 4ADne then disolved it in my oild, BA, BB. It turned to a beautiful gold oil, only to crash, essentially turning into a rock of 4ADne. I guess I deserve it, I tried to suspend it at 450mg/ml! Anyway, if someone has thoughts on a water solution please share.
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    skye, i disagree with this: "It has to be relatively nontoxic, nonirritating, non reactive with the hormone being used, available in a form we can use, and it has to hold the hormone in solution both in bottle and depot"

    because it doesn't hjave to hold the hormone in SOLUTION. the 4ad injectable i made was a suspension not a solution, and it is not necessary to hold the hormone in SOLUTION.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    skye, i disagree with this: "It has to be relatively nontoxic, nonirritating, non reactive with the hormone being used, available in a form we can use, and it has to hold the hormone in solution both in bottle and depot"

    because it doesn't hjave to hold the hormone in SOLUTION. the 4ad injectable i made was a suspension not a solution, and it is not necessary to hold the hormone in SOLUTION.
    I will grant that but I'm not much for suspension, they not painless most of the time anyway. (I don't care how much you thin it) But that being the case the arguement is mute because we can suspened anything in water and shoot it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    skye, i disagree with this: "It has to be relatively nontoxic, nonirritating, non reactive with the hormone being used, available in a form we can use, and it has to hold the hormone in solution both in bottle and depot"

    because it doesn't hjave to hold the hormone in SOLUTION. the 4ad injectable i made was a suspension not a solution, and it is not necessary to hold the hormone in SOLUTION.
    What mg/ml did you come up with for your suspension?
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    I know this info is a little sketchy but I printed out a post off of deja news group misc/fitness/weights I believe about a year ago in which Duchaine listed a patended method for releasing hormone bases in an I.M. injection. It used 3 different solvents to gradually release the base over a 3-5 day period. Like I said , it has been about about a year ago ,so it's hard for me to remember the specifics. One was poly ethylene glycol . Another was poly propylene glycol , I think , and I cant remember the third but you get the idea. you can probably find the post if you look hard enough. Pretty sure this is animal's "secret ingredients" listed in that post. The method is supposedly patented if that will help locate the specifics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead
    I know this info is a little sketchy but I printed out a post off of deja news group misc/fitness/weights I believe about a year ago in which Duchaine listed a patended method for releasing hormone bases in an I.M. injection. It used 3 different solvents to gradually release the base over a 3-5 day period. Like I said , it has been about about a year ago ,so it's hard for me to remember the specifics. One was poly ethylene glycol . Another was poly propylene glycol , I think , and I cant remember the third but you get the idea. you can probably find the post if you look hard enough. Pretty sure this is animal's "secret ingredients" listed in that post. The method is supposedly patented if that will help locate the specifics.
    looking if i find will post the results

    thanks
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    HERES THAT POST I WAS TALKING ABOUT. I THINK IT WILL WORK FOR LOTS OF HORMONES.


    This is the exact procedure outlined by Dan Duchaine in his Dirty
    Dieting Newsletter.

    Dan Duchaine writes: "Basically, there are two types of injectable steroid
    formulations. The first is an oily solution of an ester of the steroid (i.e.,
    testosterone propionate). The action of an oil-based ester is based on the
    fact that the ester group makes the steroid more lipopholic (oil soluble)
    compared to the parent steroid. When a solution of the steroid ester in a
    vegitable oil is injected into the body a "depot" is formed. Over a period
    of time, the steroid leaches out of this depot solution and into general
    circulation where it is quickly hydrolyzed by endogenous esterases thereby
    providing the free active parent steroid."

    "The other type of injectable steroid formulation is an aqueous
    suspension. In this case, the parent steroid itself is utilized
    instead of the ester derivative. The theory behind the prolonged
    activity of this type of formulation is that after the injection, a
    depot of steroid microcrystals are left at the injection site and
    these are slowly (over a few days) dissolved into the general
    circulation. There are several problems with these solutions however.
    One is that they are easily susceptible to microbial contamination,
    owing to the fact that they are aqueous in nature. Another (problem)
    is that it is difficult to get an even and reproducible withdrawal of
    crystals (from the vial) from shot to shot. Additionally, these
    injections can often be painful."

    "Let's make believe that you have some trenbolone, or whatever, and
    you are interested in making an injectable. You could make an ester
    and go the route of an oil based solution, but this requires a
    somewhat difficult (for the novice) chemical reaction and subsequent
    purification. You could try to make an aqueous suspension out of the
    free steroids, but this is even more out of the question because of
    the requirements of having the correct particle size of your steroid,
    as well as the sterility concerns. Plus, the formulation itself is
    quite involved."

    "Fortunately, there is an almost unknown steroid formulation type that
    is very simple to make and damn effective as well. I call it
    "pseudo-suspension." The details of this pseudo suspension are
    outlined in US patent 2856329. Basically the steroid is dissolved in
    a mixture of three anhydrous (water-free) solvents. These solvents:
    polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, and benzyl alcohol, are all
    safe for injection into the body. The key to how
    this formulation works lies in the fact that these solvents are all
    water miscible. Upon injection into the body, the steroid solution
    will react to the water content of the body fluids to precipitate
    microcrystals as a depot, just like a regular injected aqueous
    suspension. However, because of the nature of this three-component
    solvent vehicle, the crystals precipitate in a more finely divided
    form than is provided by conventional suspensions and (according to
    the patent) is more effectively absorbed."

    "This formulation provides all the advantages of a conventional
    suspension, while being less painful upon injection, better absorbed,
    more conveniently administered (no shaking of the vial is needed) and
    much more resistent to microbial contamination (due to the fact that
    it is anhydrous and also contains benzyl alcohol. Since the particle
    size of the steroid in the depot is significantly smaller than seen
    with conventional aqueous suspensions, it is probably wise to make
    more frequent injections (daily, or every other day) to ensure blood
    levels of hormone are maintained. It is also imperative that the
    solution is always kept dry, which means it should be well sealed,
    preferably in a septum vial."

    "PROCEDURE
    Chemicals/equipment needed:
    1) Finaplix (with the binders removed)
    2) Propylene glycol
    3) Benzyl alcohol
    4) Polyethylene glycol
    5) Heat source (Stove top or hotplate)
    6) Container (beaker, stainless cup, etc.)
    7) Syringe and syringe filter
    8) Measuring cup (in milliliters)"

    "A solution of 30ml propylene glycol and 10ml benzyl alcohol is
    prepared. While heating solution, 5gm of the steroid is mildly
    stirred in until it is dissolved completely. 60ml of the polyethylene
    glycol is added next and stirred until the solution is evenly
    distributed."

    "The solution should be transferred quickly into a sealed container
    (preferably a septum vial). It is a good idea to pass the solution
    through a syringe filter to remove any particulate matter that may be
    present. The resultant solution will have a concentration of
    50mg/ml."


    I strongly recommend separating the Trenbolone from
    the binders and glue. The binders might clog up the syringe filter if
    they are not removed first. For this, all you need to do is buy some
    acetone from a paint store and let the pellets dissolve in the
    acetone. Then pour the solution through a couple of coffee filters
    which will catch the binders. Finally, let the acetone evaporate and
    you are left with pure trenbolone crystals. You can then add the
    crystals to the kit.

    What does everyone think?

    J.C Taylor

    -----------== Posted via Deja News, The
    Last edited by rebelhead; 06-18-2004 at 10:00 PM. Reason: TO REMOVE THAT GOOFGLE SHIT
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    Interesting method. Anyone tried it yet? I'm contemplating it myself...
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    I was thinking of trying something along the lines of 15 grams of powder ...10 grams 4AD (Base) and 5 grams of 1Test (Base)....in a BA/BB/Oil solution making 100ml.

    Would this low of concentration work or do you still face the same issues of it crashing?
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    I have one other question that's probably a NEWB question and I'll probably get slammed over it...but I've noticed there is PEG 200 and PEG400...what are the differences?
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    Also curious.. I may play around with that duchaine recipie in the near future... Although at 10% BA, well, I guess it will only take one injection to find out eh ?
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    I've noticed there is PEG 200 and PEG400...what are the differences?

    PEG 200 has a Lower molecular weight as compared to PEG 400. It should also have a lower viscosity and be more "oil soluble", as PEG's solubility in water are inversely proportional to it's molecular weight.

    I too have wondered why PEG 200 would not be used in cases like this. I assumed that 1) the cost to benefit ratio of the product was not there, or 2) the difference in hydroxyl value of the products affected the desired efficiacy.

    Guess I better read the patent to make sure it doesn't explain the desireable molecular weight PEG and why.
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    Let us know the results of your research..
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead
    HERES THAT POST I WAS TALKING ABOUT. I THINK IT WILL WORK FOR LOTS OF HORMONES.


    This is the exact procedure outlined by Dan Duchaine in his Dirty
    Dieting Newsletter.

    Dan Duchaine writes: "Basically, there are two types of injectable steroid
    formulations. The first is an oily solution of an ester of the steroid (i.e.,
    testosterone propionate). The action of an oil-based ester is based on the
    fact that the ester group makes the steroid more lipopholic (oil soluble)
    compared to the parent steroid. When a solution of the steroid ester in a
    vegitable oil is injected into the body a "depot" is formed. Over a period
    of time, the steroid leaches out of this depot solution and into general
    circulation where it is quickly hydrolyzed by endogenous esterases thereby
    providing the free active parent steroid."

    "The other type of injectable steroid formulation is an aqueous
    suspension. In this case, the parent steroid itself is utilized
    instead of the ester derivative. The theory behind the prolonged
    activity of this type of formulation is that after the injection, a
    depot of steroid microcrystals are left at the injection site and
    these are slowly (over a few days) dissolved into the general
    circulation. There are several problems with these solutions however.
    One is that they are easily susceptible to microbial contamination,
    owing to the fact that they are aqueous in nature. Another (problem)
    is that it is difficult to get an even and reproducible withdrawal of
    crystals (from the vial) from shot to shot. Additionally, these
    injections can often be painful."

    "Let's make believe that you have some trenbolone, or whatever, and
    you are interested in making an injectable. You could make an ester
    and go the route of an oil based solution, but this requires a
    somewhat difficult (for the novice) chemical reaction and subsequent
    purification. You could try to make an aqueous suspension out of the
    free steroids, but this is even more out of the question because of
    the requirements of having the correct particle size of your steroid,
    as well as the sterility concerns. Plus, the formulation itself is
    quite involved."

    "Fortunately, there is an almost unknown steroid formulation type that
    is very simple to make and damn effective as well. I call it
    "pseudo-suspension." The details of this pseudo suspension are
    outlined in US patent 2856329. Basically the steroid is dissolved in
    a mixture of three anhydrous (water-free) solvents. These solvents:
    polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, and benzyl alcohol, are all
    safe for injection into the body. The key to how
    this formulation works lies in the fact that these solvents are all
    water miscible. Upon injection into the body, the steroid solution
    will react to the water content of the body fluids to precipitate
    microcrystals as a depot, just like a regular injected aqueous
    suspension. However, because of the nature of this three-component
    solvent vehicle, the crystals precipitate in a more finely divided
    form than is provided by conventional suspensions and (according to
    the patent) is more effectively absorbed."

    "This formulation provides all the advantages of a conventional
    suspension, while being less painful upon injection, better absorbed,
    more conveniently administered (no shaking of the vial is needed) and
    much more resistent to microbial contamination (due to the fact that
    it is anhydrous and also contains benzyl alcohol. Since the particle
    size of the steroid in the depot is significantly smaller than seen
    with conventional aqueous suspensions, it is probably wise to make
    more frequent injections (daily, or every other day) to ensure blood
    levels of hormone are maintained. It is also imperative that the
    solution is always kept dry, which means it should be well sealed,
    preferably in a septum vial."

    "PROCEDURE
    Chemicals/equipment needed:
    1) Finaplix (with the binders removed)
    2) Propylene glycol
    3) Benzyl alcohol
    4) Polyethylene glycol
    5) Heat source (Stove top or hotplate)
    6) Container (beaker, stainless cup, etc.)
    7) Syringe and syringe filter
    8) Measuring cup (in milliliters)"

    "A solution of 30ml propylene glycol and 10ml benzyl alcohol is
    prepared. While heating solution, 5gm of the steroid is mildly
    stirred in until it is dissolved completely. 60ml of the polyethylene
    glycol is added next and stirred until the solution is evenly
    distributed."

    "The solution should be transferred quickly into a sealed container
    (preferably a septum vial). It is a good idea to pass the solution
    through a syringe filter to remove any particulate matter that may be
    present. The resultant solution will have a concentration of
    50mg/ml."


    I strongly recommend separating the Trenbolone from
    the binders and glue. The binders might clog up the syringe filter if
    they are not removed first. For this, all you need to do is buy some
    acetone from a paint store and let the pellets dissolve in the
    acetone. Then pour the solution through a couple of coffee filters
    which will catch the binders. Finally, let the acetone evaporate and
    you are left with pure trenbolone crystals. You can then add the
    crystals to the kit.

    What does everyone think?

    J.C Taylor

    -----------== Posted via Deja News, The


    I recently reasearched the patent and it gives several examples of solutions wit various hormones including androstenediol. The Ba, PG, and PEG amounts listed in the patent are given in %'s, not volumes in ml's. So 10 ml of ba may not be correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrTimothy
    I was thinking of trying something along the lines of 15 grams of powder ...10 grams 4AD (Base) and 5 grams of 1Test (Base)....in a BA/BB/Oil solution making 100ml.

    Would this low of concentration work or do you still face the same issues of it crashing?
    Don't inject 1-test base, it will burn bad. It is very irritating.
  

  
 

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