Whats the best PCT after M1T?? - AnabolicMinds.com

Whats the best PCT after M1T??

  1. Board Supporter
    Polish_Oak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    201
    Rep Power
    231

    Reputation

    Whats the best PCT after M1T??


    Whats the best PCT after M1T that i can pick up anywhere online???

  2. Get big or die trying
    Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    898
    Rep Power
    579

    Reputation

    Definately nolva. You can find it on custom nutrition.
  3. Get big or die trying
    Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    898
    Rep Power
    579

    Reputation

    http://www.customnutritionwarehouse.com/ there you go. And there a board sponsor, good service, good price.
    •   
       

  4. Get big or die trying
    Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    898
    Rep Power
    579

    Reputation

    also clomid, or 6 oxo. But preferably clomid, and nolva for best results.
  5. Senior Member
    Cuffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,192
    Rep Power
    1231

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by pjflynn
    also clomid, or 6 oxo. But preferably clomid, and nolva for best results.
    6 OXO?...are you kidding? Not for M1T!
  6. Advanced Member
    propho's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    992
    Rep Power
    8143

    Reputation

    yep I think 6oxo left me retarded even after an S1+ cycle... my libido was there but not fully.. so i've stocked up on nolva.. no more of that crap I hope? =P
  7. New Member
    massmongler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    37
    Posts
    40
    Rep Power
    149

    Reputation

    clomid/nolva for best results
  8. New Member
    Billy the kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    206

    Reputation

    This is a search for post cycle therapy.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/searc...searchid=52481
  9. Senior Member
    Cuffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,192
    Rep Power
    1231

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
    I say both Nolva and 6-oxo, they are complimentary. I refer to my reply on the M1T Gyno thread.
    Well then, refer to Bobo's post in the same thread.
  10. New Member
    Billy the kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    206

    Reputation

    Check this out

    Originally posted by Bobo

    http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...5&postcount=31

    Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
    Pat Arnold had this response at .bb

    Pat, I am interested in knowing what you would recommend for pct after a 4 week m1t cycle, 6oxo or nolva?




    "What i recommend in a more general sense is an aromatase inhibitor over an estrogen receptor antagonist like nolva

    whether the aromatase inhibitor is arimidex, femara, or 6-OXO does not necessarily matter as long as an effective dose is taken

    the reason I feel this way is because ERA's like nolva raise SHBG along with testosterone which means that your total test goes up but free bioavailable test really does not. So although your balls may recover you are not getting the actual hormone activity you need

    With an aromatase inhibitor your test production increases but SHBG does not go up. You get your cake and can eat it too"

    I say use them both
    Here is the other side of the arguement w/ references:


    ""I would not use 6-oxo or any aromatase inhibitor post cycle. I have a theory based on numerous post cycle bloodwork data that people have sent me to comment on. Complete recovery of the HPA means both free and total test return to the normal range. Androgens dramatically lower SHBG. In fact, it can stay lowered for months after a cycle. As long as SHBG stays low, total test will be low, even if free test is normal. I have seen this phenomenon in quite a few bloodwork printouts. Aromatase inhibitors typically lower SHBG by blocking estrogen production. (Estrogen elevates SHBG). So taking an aromatase inhibitor post cycle just prolongs recovery.

    The traditional post cycle ancillaries, clomid and nolvadex, raise SHBG, but block the suppressive effects of estrogen on the HPA at the hypothalamic/pituitary level. They allow total test to return to normal more quickly.

    I have often heard the response "Well as long as free test is normal, what does it matter whether total test is low?" Test circulates in three fractions, free, SHBG bound, and "weakly bound" or albumin bound. The free+albumin bound is considered the bioavailable fraction. So you can have free test that is normal, but if total test is low, albumin bound test will be low as well, leading to low bioavailable test. This is why guys complain about low libido post cycle even if free test is normal. And the cases I have seen where this happens most often are those where guys have used an aromatase inhibitor post cycle.


    One has to differentiate between aromatase inhibitors and SERMS like nolva and clomid. All are generally lumped together as antiandrogens. Only the aromatase inhibitors lower SHBG. The other two, being SERMs are estrogenic in this regard and raise SHBG. The more efficient the aromatase inhibitor is at blocking E2 production, the more impact it will have on SHBG. Exemestane, the most efficient aromatase inhibitor (a so called "suicide inhibitor since it permanently deactivates the enzyme) lowers SHBG the most.

    As to how they lower total test, if test starts to increase during HPA recovery, and SHBG is low, the free fractions will increase disproportionally to total test, and then start to act directly on the hypothalamic GnRH pulse generator to dampen GnRH output, which inturn blunts LH secretion. So yes the free fractions are responsible for feedback inhibition

    Bear in mind that there are elements of fact and elements of hypothesis in my comments. I'm hypothesizing that using post cycle aroamtase inhibitors impairs recovery by invoking the factual observations that amomatase inhibitors lower SHBG (fact), which increases the free test fraction (fact), which will then blunt GnRH release (fact). Unfortunately there are no studies of which I am aware where aromatase inhibitors were ever used to treat post cycle HPA suppression. I find it remarkable that in all the medical literature there are 2 studies where clomid was used for this, and 1 study where HCG was used.

    There is another reason I would not use aromatase inhibitors post cycle. Animal studies have shown that blocking the conversion of test to estradiol locally, within the vascular endothelium, greatly accelerates the development of atherosclerotic plaques. During a cycle this is probably not going to be a problem, because there will still be plenty of aromatization going on (anastrazole and letrozole only block aroud 50% to 60% of aromatization). But post cycle, when test and estrogen are very low, blocking aromatization could, if it is valid to extrapolate the animal studies to people, accelerate atherosclerosis."

    Here are links to a few of the animal studies:

    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/6/3589

    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/99/6/4055

    http://circres.ahajournals.org/cgi/...y=BqyNB.4rGiPYQ



  11. Get big or die trying
    Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    898
    Rep Power
    579

    Reputation

    Damn, now i'm totally confused. Seems like there's always two sides to every argument, and i'm always stuck in the middle.
  12. New Member
    Billy the kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    206

    Reputation

    People who use illegal steroids do not spend money on 6-oxo. They use Nolva and/or Clomid.

    6-OXO is merely a legal alternative, which we all know is never as potent as the real thing.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Whats the best PCT for test cycle?
    By pmac in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-19-2011, 06:09 PM
  2. what the best PCT from actual experience not wikiknowledge
    By anabolicevo in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-22-2011, 02:06 AM
  3. What's the best pct for me?
    By jsud in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-03-2009, 12:11 PM
  4. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-22-2009, 01:18 PM
  5. Whats the best PCT for a Tren Prohormone cycle
    By dankone in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 02-17-2009, 06:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in