Class I vs. Class II confusion...(prep for a stack)

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    Class I vs. Class II confusion...(prep for a stack)


    Ive been researching for weeks trying to put together a good stack using two CEL phs. I have done m-drol and epi in the past, and am looking to stack something that has semi wet gains, along with dry gains. So far im looking into m1,4add and epi, hoping to gain mass while not losing to much form. ( i alsl just like epi). I origionally based this decision off of the idea that epi, being a progestin based compound was a class I, and M1,4add was a class 2.

    However I have looked through countless threads on AM as well as many other sites and seem to get different answers every time. Can someone just straighten this out for me?

    If this info isnt correct, could you suggest some possible other stacks that mix the two classes?
    -and-
    If this info is correct, Thoughts on this cycle?


    grazie

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    I dont know much about prohormones, but let me ask this....

    Why dont people just use legitamate roids?
    I dont understand... (not being sarcastic either, I see alot of talk about prohormones in the ANABOLIC section and idk why so many people use prohormones instead of real ANABOLICS.)
    No disrespect intended. Also id answer your quesion, but I know nothing of prohormones... roids are another story
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    thanks for that helpful answer. if i found a source I trusted to buy real stuff i would.
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    It is a lot easier to get prohormones and designer STEROIDS. OTC doesnt mean it is a prohormone by default.

    I think the M1,4add and epi stack would work well. If u really want to get some info on that combo u could go to the Purus Labs subforum and ask about their M14-E product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justeat View Post
    Ive been researching for weeks trying to put together a good stack using two CEL phs. I have done m-drol and epi in the past, and am looking to stack something that has semi wet gains, along with dry gains. So far im looking into m1,4add and epi, hoping to gain mass while not losing to much form. ( i alsl just like epi). I origionally based this decision off of the idea that epi, being a progestin based compound was a class I, and M1,4add was a class 2.

    However I have looked through countless threads on AM as well as many other sites and seem to get different answers every time. Can someone just straighten this out for me?

    If this info isnt correct, could you suggest some possible other stacks that mix the two classes?
    -and-
    If this info is correct, Thoughts on this cycle?


    grazie
    1) Epistane is not progestin based (It is similar in nature to DHT), so I wouldn't treat it as such.

    Epi and M1,4add would definitely be a good stack. Know what your taking first though, and prepare your ancillaries as such.

    I dont know much about prohormones, but let me ask this....

    Why dont people just use legitamate roids?
    I dont understand... (not being sarcastic either, I see alot of talk about prohormones in the ANABOLIC section and idk why so many people use prohormones instead of real ANABOLICS.)
    No disrespect intended. Also id answer your quesion, but I know nothing of prohormones... roids are another story
    FYI, Epistane is steroid, not a prohormone. There is certainly a difference.
    ALSO, prohormones are anabolics. It converts to a steroid in your body.....This is why you see it discussed in anabolics. When you see someone talking about a PH, generally you can assume they are not talking about the PH itself but more than likely the target hormone of conversion (as far as their cycle goals, side effects, etc.). Just because something is not a typical AAS you are used to seeing/using, does not mean that it is not an anabolic. Hell, protein promotes anabolism technically.

    And legitimate AAS are harder/more expensive to get a hold of than designer steroids/pro-hormones.
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    Thank you for clearing that up. And yes, I have what I consider a pretty good support/pct supp stack.

    For Support Supps:
    taurine
    fish Oils
    Hawthorne berry
    Milk Thistle
    Liver Care (picked it up at walmart, doesnt contain Milk Thistle... cant hurt)
    Saw Palmetto
    Multi-v
    (ill be taking these 3 weeks prior to cycle)

    PCT:
    1 packet of clomid
    3 packets of Nolva (got some extra... doesnt hurt)
    left over doses of injectable HCG... if needed
    ZMA
    (some type of ai/test booster... I liked iforce reversitrol)
    micronized creatine
    waxy maize
    purple wraath

    ... I am naturally lean and have never had cortisol problems, or estro problems, so I dont see an immediate need to any meds to counter those issues... of course if I need it ill get it.


    I havnt planned out the schedule for dosing the epi/m1,4add yet, but as I research more ill post it. I also plan on logging all of this.

    Lastly... Has anyone tried a cycle like this before? Im extremely curious and can never get too much info. thanks broskis
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    The notion of class I and class II steroids and needing to mix them is a myth; all anabolic steroids ultimately act on the AR. If you want to mix a wet and dry compound together (makes sense), then mix a wet and dry compound together. Obviously if you mix winstrol and epistane and nothing else, your joints are going to need some WD40. But there is more of a basis for wet and wet combos and wet and dry combos IMO. A wet/wet AAS combo would be test/deca+dbol/anadrol, but you'd probably have to use an AI to avoid gyno, so that would dry things up a bit.

    Anyways, like Unreal said a while back, just mix compounds with different properties (basically). Epistane would go well with a wet compound IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justeat View Post
    Lastly... Has anyone tried a cycle like this before? Im extremely curious and can never get too much info. thanks broskis
    Purus Labs M14e product is M1,4ADD + Epistane, so I would say that many ppl have tried this combo before. It seems to be a popular product too, though I like to create my own combos. Just do a search on M14e reviews/logs and you will probably find lots of comments.
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    honestly hands down the best stack ive heard about is epi-tren.... everything i have read from almost everyone has been extremely extremely positive in terms of gains made in strength and size... its a very dry stack so u can cut on it also and still gain strength..although alot of people hate that stack as its a killer on libido.. well tren is for sure.. but if u can tailor that stack to your goals.. its a great stack...
    what are your goals for this cycle.. are u bulking or cutting..
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbhick3 View Post
    The notion of class I and class II steroids and needing to mix them is a myth; all anabolic steroids ultimately act on the AR.
    I'm not sure its true they all act on the AR, but the class I/II thing is all a myth

    Quote Originally Posted by dumbhick3 View Post
    A wet/wet AAS combo would be test/deca+dbol/anadrol
    yeah, it is, feels great, strength climbs steadily
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    I will tell you why I use prohormones. I am in law enforcement and I am not going to use my job for using real steroids. Its not worth my career.
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    Probally the best designer stack I have done. Huge,dry, strength gains and 15 lbs of lean muscle in 6 weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigzach1234 View Post
    honestly hands down the best stack ive heard about is epi-tren.... everything i have read from almost everyone has been extremely extremely positive in terms of gains made in strength and size... its a very dry stack so u can cut on it also and still gain strength..although alot of people hate that stack as its a killer on libido.. well tren is for sure.. but if u can tailor that stack to your goals.. its a great stack...
    what are your goals for this cycle.. are u bulking or cutting..
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    I have to agree about the tren epi stack. I havent ran them together but my 2 best cycles included them. Tren with Fura both at low doses. Then an epi pulse with crazy high doses. Making me wish I could run this combo
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtysanchez View Post
    I will tell you why I use prohormones. I am in law enforcement and I am not going to use my job for using real steroids. Its not worth my career.
    these orals will still make u test positive if ur tested for steroids. and if u think cops dont juice then ur naive
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    these orals will still make u test positive if ur tested for steroids. and if u think cops dont juice then ur naive
    I was thinking that too. I think I saw a review was talking about how a DS helped him be prepared for the police academy lol.
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    alright, thanks for all the input guys. yea, I was looking into the epi/tren bc ive heard alot of good reviews also, but Im having problems finding a tren product online. If any of you know where there at let me know lol.
    and as for bulking/cutting, im pretty much bulking 24/7/365 lol. ill look into that purus labs product that looks great.


    one last question... I know wet compounds obv hold water retention, how long after you cycle does this water hang out for? im fine with bloating a little but im not trying to hold it for a while
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm not sure its true they all act on the AR, but the class I/II thing is all a myth


    all steroids do act on the androgen receptor to some degree. some less than others. and some have more effects through other means (anadrol), but they still attach to the androgen receptor, however weakly/strongly.
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    any info on the wetness question? How long do ppl ususally hold the water weight??
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    ???
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    depends on the substance, but 3-10 days is more or less the range
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    thank you.
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    yahh dbol yahhhhh good stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtysanchez View Post
    I will tell you why I use prohormones. I am in law enforcement and I am not going to use my job for using real steroids. Its not worth my career.
    Use your job or lose your job? You could use your position of authority (abuse it) by using all those confiscated steroids instead of turning them in with the perp. But then you might have trouble meeting your arrest quota. It's a balancing act.

    BTW, I didn't know that LEOs were tested for steroids. I would have just assumed the standard DOT5 test or similar. If you are tested for roids, then something like M14 is going to make you test positive for dbol of course, but I still find it hard to believe that you guys are tested for steroids...

    And yeah, all kinds of cops are on the juice. You don't get that big and muscular sitting in a patrol car, eating 12 packs of donuts, and chasing them with coffee and cigarettes, LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm not sure its true they all act on the AR, but the class I/II thing is all a myth
    This study pretty much put the nail in the coffin on this theory, and supports what I have been saying about the class I/II thoery for about 5 years now (I think its been about that long).


    Anabolic-androgenic steroid interaction with rat androgen receptor in vivo and in vitro: a comparative study. Feldkoren BI, Andersson S. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 Apr;94(5):481-7. Epub 2005 Mar 17.

    Anabolic steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone and are characterized by their ability to cause nitrogen retention and positive protein metabolism, thereby leading to increased protein synthesis and muscle mass. There are disagreements in the literature in regards to the interaction of anabolic steroids with the androgen receptor (AR) as revealed by competitive ligand binding assays in vitro using cytosolic preparations from prostate and skeletal muscle. By use of tissue extracts, it has been shown that some anabolic steroids have binding affinities for the AR that are higher than that of the natural androgen testosterone, while others such as stanozolol and methanedienone have significantly lower affinities as compared with testosterone. In this study we show that stanozolol and methanedienone are low affinity ligands of the rat recombinant AR as revealed by a ligand binding assay in vitro, however, based on a cell-based AR-dependent transactivation assay, they are potent activators of the AR. We also show that a single injection of stanozolol and methanedienone causes a rapid cytosolic depletion of AR in rat skeletal muscle. Based on these results, we conclude that anabolic steroids with low affinity to AR in vitro, can in fact in vivo act on the AR to cause biological responses.
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