An alternative to storing powders??

enzo

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I did some research on storing powders for long term use. It appears most people prefer to store via vacuum packing. I wanted to post some results of what might be a more viable option than vacuum packaging. Everyone knows we are trying to reduce the amount of 02 in the package. The O2 is what oxidizes our powders and decreases their effectiveness. Vacuum packing still leaves 2-5% of O2 in the package. Why not use O2 absorbers instead of vacuum packing.

We might think that our foodstuffs are affected greatly by O2 but, high tech electronic equipment is much more sensitive to O2 than food/drugs. Open up a pack of silicon chips and you find O2 absorbers and Mylar packing. The Mylar packing helps keeps the O2 from leaking into the package and controls static. This could be accomplished from a good polyethlene/glass/mason jar container.

You don't really see the O2 absorbers in vitamins/pharmacueticals b/c they don't want this stuff to last that long. They want you to buy it again.

These O2 packets work very quickly and absorb all the residual O2 in the package regardless if they have been vacuum packed. It keeps the environment high in N which is beneficial for long term storage. Here is some information regarding a proprietary O2 absorber but they all do the same crap.


Mitsubishi Oxygen Absorbers vs. Ordinary Technologies

Packaging Method

Results

Benefits

Mitsubishi O2 absorbers

Reduces and maintains oxygen content in packaging to below 0.01% and maintains this level despite oxygen ingress

Eliminates spoilage, organisms and oxidative chemical reactions in packaging

Vacuum &
Back Flush


Achieves .5 - 2% Residual oxygen

Controls aerobic microbial growth temporarily*

Gas Flushing

Approximately 0.5% to 5% oxygen

Provides some control of aerobic microbial growth*



These are not expensive and can be purchase at the link below for $14.00 for 100 packets.

Keep in mind you want to have all your powders ready to go, then drop these packets inside the container and seal them. Within 15 minutes of opening the 100 packet seal they start to absorb O2. So have your supplies ready and drop them in. Here is a link for the O2 absorbers.


http://wisementrading.com/



Secondly, seeing many of these powders are hydroscopic we need to use desiccants. Most vitamin products/pharmacueticals tend to store water. H2o can degrade most products and affect shelf life. H2O affects shelf life more than O2.

Desiccants basically absorb all the moisture in the container and vitamin/drug. If you are storing in a freezer make sure to use desiccants. These too are not that expensive when comparing apples to apples. The price comes down if you can get a few people to purchase these together. If you purchase them by yourself they are roughly $1.00 a packet and that is enough for the container. Make sure you purchase tyvek dessicants so this stuff is not breathing silica gel onto your precious powders. Here is a link for desiccants:


http://www.jakesmp.com/



Anyway, Just a thought.

Thanks tatortodd for the information on homebrewing.
 
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Strateg0s

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You can also get water absorbers cheap at your local pet store. Check in the insect feed section for pads which are filled with the same type of gel as above. I use them filled for hydrating cigars, but they can also be used empty to absorb ambient moisture.
 

Grant

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I did some research on storing powders for long term use. It appears most people prefer to store via vacuum packing. I wanted to post some results of what might be a more viable option than vacuum packaging. Everyone knows we are trying to reduce the amount of 02 in the package. The O2 is what oxidizes our powders and decreases their effectiveness. Vacuum packing still leaves 2-5% of O2 in the package. Why not use O2 absorbers instead of vacuum packing.

We might think that our foodstuffs are affected greatly by O2 but, high tech electronic equipment is much more sensitive to O2 than food/drugs. Open up a pack of silicon chips and you find O2 absorbers and Mylar packing. The Mylar packing helps keeps the O2 from leaking into the package and controls static. This could be accomplished from a good polyethlene/glass/mason jar container.

You don't really see the O2 absorbers in vitamins/pharmacueticals b/c they don't want this stuff to last that long. They want you to buy it again.

These O2 packets work very quickly and absorb all the residual O2 in the package regardless if they have been vacuum packed. It keeps the environment high in N which is beneficial for long term storage. Here is some information regarding a proprietary O2 absorber but they all do the same crap.


Mitsubishi Oxygen Absorbers vs. Ordinary Technologies

Packaging Method

Results

Benefits

Mitsubishi O2 absorbers

Reduces and maintains oxygen content in packaging to below 0.01% and maintains this level despite oxygen ingress

Eliminates spoilage, organisms and oxidative chemical reactions in packaging

Vacuum &
Back Flush


Achieves .5 - 2% Residual oxygen

Controls aerobic microbial growth temporarily*

Gas Flushing

Approximately 0.5% to 5% oxygen

Provides some control of aerobic microbial growth*



These are not expensive and can be purchase at the link below for $14.00 for 100 packets.

Keep in mind you want to have all your powders ready to go, then drop these packets inside the container and seal them. Within 15 minutes of opening the 100 packet seal they start to absorb O2. So have your supplies ready and drop them in. Here is a link for the O2 absorbers.


http://wisementrading.com/



Secondly, seeing many of these powders are hydroscopic we need to use desiccants. Most vitamin products/pharmacueticals tend to store water. H2o can degrade most products and affect shelf life. H2O affects shelf life more than O2.

Desiccants basically absorb all the moisture in the container and vitamin/drug. If you are storing in a freezer make sure to use desiccants. These too are not that expensive when comparing apples to apples. The price comes down if you can get a few people to purchase these together. If you purchase them by yourself they are roughly $1.00 a packet and that is enough for the container. Make sure you purchase tyvek dessicants so this stuff is not breathing silica gel onto your precious powders. Here is a link for desiccants:


http://www.jakesmp.com/



Anyway, Just a thought.

Thanks tatortodd for the information on homebrewing.
So heres how it would go right??

1. Put powders in a vacuum bag, ready to seal
2. Drop Mit. oxygen absorbers in package
3. Drop dessicant in package
4 Vacuum seal package
5. put in freezer
6. put dessicant packs in freezer
 

enzo

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So heres how it would go right??

1. Put powders in a vacuum bag, ready to seal
2. Drop Mit. oxygen absorbers in package
3. Drop dessicant in package
4 Vacuum seal package
5. put in freezer
6. put dessicant packs in freezer
I am not sure if I understand step 6 but, put both the O2 abosrbers and dessicants inside the bag with the PH's. You can add the vacuum sealing step but it should not be necessary because the O2 absorbers are taking place of the vacuum sealing. I suppose it is overkill but wouldn't hurt anything. I am just going to put the ph's inside glass boston round pharmacuetical bottles. The bottles are cheap on the internet, about .70 cents a piece. I figure glass is impermeable where plastic, pvc, hpde are more permeable to the effects of air.

Enzo
 

Lean One

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I am not sure if I understand step 6 but, put both the O2 abosrbers and dessicants inside the bag with the PH's. You can add the vacuum sealing step but it should not be necessary because the O2 absorbers are taking place of the vacuum sealing. I suppose it is overkill but wouldn't hurt anything. I am just going to put the ph's inside glass boston round pharmacuetical bottles. The bottles are cheap on the internet, about .70 cents a piece. I figure glass is impermeable where plastic, pvc, hpde are more permeable to the effects of air.

Enzo
Enzo, right now, all my powders are sealed in the envelopes they were shipped in and placed in freezer bags.All of those are sealed in an old protein container. Can I put the o2 absorbers into the plastic bag, or do I need to open the envelopes? I was hoping to avoid opening them til I want to use them. Also, I was just going to toss the dessicant into the protein jug. Is that OK?
 

enzo

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No I think leaving them in the envelopes is a fine idea. Who wants to mess with screwing with the powders. The powders will breathe through the paper envelope but who cares if you have the O2 absorbers inside. I know the plastic ziplock baggies are permeable to air. They do breathe somewhat which is why you still get freezer burn even with vaccum sealing. I am not sure if that is due to the mil size or what. Usually, vaccum sealed products(like the fast400) is a thicker mil than ziplock baggies.

See I wanted to seperate the powders in different containers to be used at different times. For example, I have 1 gram of 4 OHN in a container for later use.

Remember, I am putting the O2 absorbers and dessicants in the containers together. When you open the container, the O2 absorber becomes useless so once it's sealed you can't open it until your ready to use it. T

That is also why I chose to get some glass pharmacuetical rounds to store my PH's in. I purchased amber glass bottles @ 100 cc capacity for around .80 cents a piece. This way, when I go to use the M 4ohn all I have to do is add the PEG 400 to the container, put into a hot bath, and start using the PH. From seeing my father working in his lab (35 year chemical engineer for Abbott Labs) they always use amber glass rounds to store raw powders. He seems to think pvc, hpde, and plastic can react to some raw powders that have not been converted into pill form. Something to do with the fillers helping stability but not longevity. Who knows with PH's, I just want to keep them as long as possible.

I know if you look at certain chemicals on the internet they mention some people prefer glass over plastic anyday. To me, it is personal preference.

If you decide to use your protein container with O2 abosrbers or dessicants make sure you know the volume of the container. These things need to be measured in order to ensure the dessicant or o2 absorber will handle the volume you are talking about. I have a bunch of dessicants. If you want some, e-mail me and I can give you some when I recieve them via regular mail. All I ask is you pay the shipping.

Enzo
 

Lean One

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No I think leaving them in the envelopes is a fine idea. Who wants to mess with screwing with the powders. The powders will breathe through the paper envelope but who cares if you have the O2 absorbers inside. I know the plastic ziplock baggies are permeable to air. They do breathe somewhat which is why you still get freezer burn even with vaccum sealing. I am not sure if that is due to the mil size or what. Usually, vaccum sealed products(like the fast400) is a thicker mil than ziplock baggies.

See I wanted to seperate the powders in different containers to be used at different times. For example, I have 1 gram of 4 OHN in a container for later use.

Remember, I am putting the O2 absorbers and dessicants in the containers together. When you open the container, the O2 absorber becomes useless so once it's sealed you can't open it until your ready to use it. T

That is also why I chose to get some glass pharmacuetical rounds to store my PH's in. I purchased amber glass bottles @ 100 cc capacity for around .80 cents a piece. This way, when I go to use the M 4ohn all I have to do is add the PEG 400 to the container, put into a hot bath, and start using the PH. From seeing my father working in his lab (35 year chemical engineer for Abbott Labs) they always use amber glass rounds to store raw powders. He seems to think pvc, hpde, and plastic can react to some raw powders that have not been converted into pill form. Something to do with the fillers helping stability but not longevity. Who knows with PH's, I just want to keep them as long as possible.

I know if you look at certain chemicals on the internet they mention some people prefer glass over plastic anyday. To me, it is personal preference.

If you decide to use your protein container with O2 abosrbers or dessicants make sure you know the volume of the container. These things need to be measured in order to ensure the dessicant or o2 absorber will handle the volume you are talking about. I have a bunch of dessicants. If you want some, e-mail me and I can give you some when I recieve them via regular mail. All I ask is you pay the shipping.

Enzo
Thanks for the offer, but I'm gonna order my supplies soon. Good info though. Thanks ;)
 

Grant

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Is it ok for the O2 absorbers and dissicants to be in contact with the powders, with step six I was talking about putting deicants in the freezer to absorb moisture in there.
 

enzo

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Is it ok for the O2 absorbers and dissicants to be in contact with the powders, with step six I was talking about putting deicants in the freezer to absorb moisture in there.
As long as they are encased in tyvex. Most dessicants and O2 absorbers are. Just make sure when your looking at this stuff they say encased in tyvex. Tyvex is what you see in the vitamin bottles.

Enzo
 

cr4ytonic

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anyone save the site to buy the bottles with the seals?

thanks!
 

Chem101

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Another Option

How about storing your powders under nitrogen. Many of the oxygen sensitive chemicals I routinely see are shipped and stored under nitrogen. If you have access to a tank its easy to do. I think personally that vacuum sealing is sufficient, but I just wanted to throw another idea out there for you.
 

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