reason behind adding dhea into pct?

[jbryand101b]

just looking for possibly peoples reasoning behind adding a pro hormone like dhea into a persons pct?

i dont understand why someone would recomend this, if one could help me see the reasoning behind it please?

 

[timmmah]

Cortisol is catabolic (breaks down tissues) which is bad. DHEA is anabolic (builds tissues)which is good. The body cannot make enough dhea to balance the levels out due to the fact that the adrenal glands have been exausted from the cycle telling them PRODUCE MORE. Well, the ps/aas are no longer in the body to signal MORE, so the gland shuts down production.
After a cycle of ph/aas the adrenal glands are all messed up in what they should produce. Sometimes the adrenal glands will produce more cortisol than dhea (both hormones) Soooo...take dhea and balance it out.

Without proper bloodwork, one won't really know if there is a shutdown, and the shutdown doesn't always occur, so without bloodwork, good freakin luck on taking the right dose, if your even in need of it to begin with.

 

[jbryand101b]

Cortisol is catabolic (breaks down tissues) which is bad. DHEA is anabolic (builds tissues)which is good. The body cannot make enough dhea to balance the levels out due to the fact that the adrenal glands have been exausted from the cycle telling them PRODUCE MORE. Well, the ps/aas are no longer in the body to signal MORE, so the gland shuts down production.
After a cycle of ph/aas the adrenal glands are all messed up in what they should produce. Sometimes the adrenal glands will produce more cortisol than dhea (both hormones) Soooo...take dhea and balance it out.

Without proper bloodwork, one won't really know if there is a shutdown, and the shutdown doesn't always occur, so without bloodwork, good freakin luck on taking the right dose, if your even in need of it to begin with.

I would have to disagree with this, and this is because dhea naturally isn't anti cortisol. what it converts into, testosterone, dht, estrogen, progestins
these can help to negate the effects of cortisol.

but on that note, this can also cause an increase in unwanted side effects, and could increase supression of the hpta function more so.

adding dhea will increase the levels of hormones, but unnaturally, while you work on getting the testes to become sensitive to the effects of lh.

but i would think that though adding dhea would help prevent some loss of gains, it would also slow down the effects of recovering you natural testosterone production.

to what extent, im not sure.

if you are thinking of anti cortisol, i'd say add in something like 7-oh dhea or 7-oxo dhea,
or even better yet, using hcg/gh.

but I dont think it is a good idea (esp at 100+mg's) to add in dhea in pct.
and saying people use it and have good results comming out of pct isn't helping the arguement.
people use no pct and come out good post cycle.
but, is it the best and most efficient way to recover?

i dont believe so, but i could be wrong, so bump for more discussion.

 

[timmmah]

when dhea levels are low, cortisol levels are high, and vice versa.

 

[jbryand101b]

anytime you increase testosteone esp the levels of supraphysiological use, you will see a spike in cortisol levels due to the funtion of the hpta and the body trying to keep it a level playing field. the trick is to keep the anabolics higher than the cortisol, which is why you use higher than theraputic dosages.
when you come off of the anabolic, you have a high amount of cortisol, but low test levels, this is why you would want to do pct, to get the test levels back to normal as quickly as possible, to help negate the effects cortisol will have on the muscles.
the only thing i can think dhea would help in this aspect is as a pro hormone to testosterone/estrogen/progestins.
but then you are just taking two steps forward with pct, and one step back with the dhea in a sense.
the already converted 7-oh-dhea, or 7-oxo-dhea will help to block cortisol from forming. and I do believe dhea has the ability to convert to this, but there are so many other possible conversions, the chances are slim.

when I look at adding in dhea into pct, from what I know, it doesn't seem logical, and there are better, more effective options for this.

now dhea on cycle to help balance out hormones i can understand, but not when you trying to become "un supressed" so to speak.

 

[jbryand101b]

okay, found this from Dr. D, who recomends using up to 200mg of dhea for pct e/d.

It reduces depression, supports libido and adrenal function, antagonizes elevated cortisol, and contributes an easy testosterone precursor, amoung it's many other functions. It just fits well in PCT in my experience. Look up those threads I mentioned if your really interested. Some of the other guys had some excellent links and studies in there. I plan to take it till I die.

okay, I can see how it does this. these are all reported benifits from dhea supplementation, even from people not comming off a cycle.
so I believe this to be true for the benifits.
it's just the last part in bold that gets my attention, as it is a pro hormone, and could possibly slow down recovery of hpta function.

so I guess it's a trade off, one i'll have to try before I can fully knock it.
but not at 200mg e/d. maybe 100mg. dosed 50am/50pm.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Actually its recommended to take DHEA in the mornings. I forget the reasoning for that. I dont have a link but I've seen studies that show DHEA does not suppress at 200mgs. Sometimes I'll take DHEA if I cant get my hands on a serm and use a AI for PCT. Then the extra estrogen helps from getting too dry. Your levels of DHEA are low during PCT so taking in extra is supposed to help with recovery.

 

[jbryand101b]

some studies have shown dhea to be an exception to the negative feed back loop in low dosages.

how ever, higher supplementation of dhea could result in inhibited dhea.

dhea is made in the adrenal glands from cholesterol, and in there, converted into progenolone, and from the preg, converted into dhea.

anabolic steroids raise cholesterol, the starting material for the hormone dhea, which isn't effected by the negative feed back loop.

i'd like to see some current data from whoever is spreading this myth of low dhea levels.

the body produces from 10-15mg of dhea per day on average. so boosting that level with an extra 200mg may not be a good idea. it would depend most likely person to person, and how much actual dhea makes it into the blood stream. (probably not much.)

could be a good idea. like i said, i guess i cant knock it till i try it, which i will, soon, in about 10 weeks.

 

[Broly]

Just to give an idea, not an explanation: you say our body produces in a good day 15mg of DHEA, but you are refering to 200mg ingested oraly per day, wich doesn't mean it's 200mg of DHEA that reach our blood. Think about it as regular PH, although we can see its benefits, as we see if we take 1AD for exemple, it isn't those 200mg of steroid that is reaching our blood, due to have a certain "poor oral bioavalability", as that's the reason M1AD was produced - to make the amount of steroid ingested close to the amount that reaches one's blood. To sum up, even though you take 200mg perhaps only 100mg will pass the liver and intestine barrier, and from those 100mg a small amount will turn into exogenous testosterone, as it may also convert into pregnenolone, aldosterone, 7-oxo, 7-oh-dhea, dheas, etc but in such small amounts that makes it safe rather than suppressive.

 

[timmmah]

Just to give an idea, not an explanation: you say our body produces in a good day 15mg of DHEA, but you are refering to 200mg ingested oraly per day, wich doesn't mean it's 200mg of DHEA that reach our blood. Think about it as regular PH, although we can see its benefits, as we see if we take 1AD for exemple, it isn't those 200mg of steroid that is reaching our blood, due to have a certain "poor oral bioavalability", as that's the reason M1AD was produced - to make the amount of steroid ingested close to the amount that reaches one's blood. To sum up, even though you take 200mg perhaps only 100mg will pass the liver and intestine barrier, and from those 100mg a small amount will turn into exogenous testosterone, as it may also convert into pregnenolone, aldosterone, 7-oxo, 7-oh-dhea, dheas, etc but in such small amounts that makes it safe rather than suppressive.

WOW! that is the longest sentence that I have seen in A LONG TIME! whoever is spreading this myth of low dhea levels. Myth huh? I'd like to refer you to the statement I made some time ago,
Without proper bloodwork, one won't really know if there is a shutdown, and the shutdown doesn't always occur, so without bloodwork, good freakin luck on taking the right dose, if your even in need of it to begin with.

 

[jbryand101b]

production of dhea isn't effected by the hpta axis.

I understand that broly, thats why i had stated how much enters the system, i dont know, but i would think it is less than half the dose we take.

once you learn how dhea is produced in the body, it makes more sense why supplementing with dhea on a regular basis is only helpful to few. (elderly and women, from most studies)

and remember once dhea gets converted, it continues to convert back an forth from one hormone to another until it reaches that hormones target receptor.

enzymes are to blame for this.

but this doesn't matter, if it works for you, who am i to knock it.

 

[flightposite]

production of dhea isn't effected by the hpta axis.

I understand that broly, thats why i had stated how much enters the system, i dont know, but i would think it is less than half the dose we take.

once you learn how dhea is produced in the body, it makes more sense why supplementing with dhea on a regular basis is only helpful to few. (elderly and women, from most studies)

and remember once dhea gets converted, it continues to convert back an forth from one hormone to another until it reaches that hormones target receptor.

enzymes are to blame for this.

but this doesn't matter, if it works for you, who am i to knock it.

so if you naturally had low aromatase enzyme it would make sense that DHEA would work well as a PH to boost test. would you say this makes sense.

 

[jbryand101b]

so if you naturally had low aromatase enzyme it would make sense that DHEA would work well as a PH to boost test. would you say this makes sense.

possibly, from what I know about dhea, the problem with using dhea for something specific like testosterone, is that dhea has the ability to convert into multiple hormones.
like for example, dhea can convert directly into estrogen (both forms), and doesn't need aromatase to convert test into e it may just convert str8 to E instead of T.

I believe L.g. tries to solve this problem with supporting supplements that are in methyl 1 d.

people seem to have decent results with it.