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How many mg of 'dermal 4-AD should be used with 5 mg of M1T?

Rock Lee

Member
I'm sorry if this has been covered before but when I looked through the cycle forum I only saw one person doing 5 mg M1T and he wasn't using 4-AD with it. Anyway is there a correlation between the two, like take this many mgs of 4-AD for every 5 mgs of M1T? Or is it best to just play by ear and up the 4-AD until you feel your lethargy begin to subside?
 
A related question, pertains to 4-ad & m1t.

If a decision was made to do 2on/2off/2on with M1T, in what manner would 4-ad be beneficial? I mean to say, it takes 4-ad a couple weeks to kick in, just in time to go off for the 2 week break in the middle. I can see running it 2 weeks prior to starting, but wouldn't that prolong recovery that much longer? Would just the two 2week applications running concurrently with m1t be beneficial?

2off would involve nolva@40mg daily week 1, and 20mg daily week 2

I am making the assumption that 2on/2off/2on would be a somewhat effective way to reduce recovery & maximise gains(as compared to 3-4weeks on), all other things being equal.
 
I have done one cycle of the 2on/2off/2on, and just finished one 4-week cycle. My first cycle was with 10mg of M1t and a 4AD trans. The second cycle was 10mg M1T, with a 4AD/4OHT trans.

Personally, I liked the 4-week cycle the best. It may have been the addition of the 4OHT, but I suffered from very few sides. Mostly the lower back pain in week two, and some minor bloating. I gained a total of 14.5 pounds, from 205 to 219.5. After doing the 4-week cycle, I will not do the 2on/2off/2on again.

Also, PCT for a 4-week cycle is cheaper. You will use less Nolva, as for the other cycle you will use it during the two off periods.

Some people like the 2on/2off/2on, but I feel I got the most from the 4-week, with less sides. Again, I attribute the possible reasons for less sides due to the addition of the 4OHT. It's kind of expensive, but to me it's worth it.
 
Rock Lee said:
That was for 5 mg of M1T? Which brand did you use BTW?
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That was with 10mg gaspari m1t. I use BDC's t-gel & add my own 4ad.

You could probably get away with as little as 100-150mg 4ad if you wanted to lower it.
 
MUMatt said:
A related question, pertains to 4-ad & m1t.

If a decision was made to do 2on/2off/2on with M1T, in what manner would 4-ad be beneficial? I mean to say, it takes 4-ad a couple weeks to kick in, just in time to go off for the 2 week break in the middle. I can see running it 2 weeks prior to starting, but wouldn't that prolong recovery that much longer? Would just the two 2week applications running concurrently with m1t be beneficial?

2off would involve nolva@40mg daily week 1, and 20mg daily week 2

I am making the assumption that 2on/2off/2on would be a somewhat effective way to reduce recovery & maximise gains(as compared to 3-4weeks on), all other things being equal.
Click to expand...
Recovery is not really the issue. M1t has been shown to completely shut down endogenous test within a few days. You will be fully shut down regardless how long you stay on it. The 2on/2off/2on method is more of a way to maximize gains & reduce sides, since the 2 week mark is when gains begin to slow & sides usually get bad.

4ad is definitely beneficial in ALL m1t cycles, I woudn't recommend anybody take it without 4ad. I like the idea of frontloading 4ad alone for 1-2 weeks then adding m1t. I havent tried it yet, but that should allow for 4ad to have really kicked in before adding m1t.
 
I dont have the science background to explain this accurately but I believe recovery is much easier/quicker after a 2 week cycle even though m1t shuts you down in a few days. The reason being that shutdown happens at different levels, after two weeks I believe you only shutdown by LH response, and the longer you are on it cascades onto other systems that control hormone levels in the body, such as testicular atrophy, but if testicular atrophy hasn't set in, the LH/GnRH rebound post-cycle should get the boys producing test much faster than atrophied testis.
 
Longdog said:
4ad is definitely beneficial in ALL m1t cycles, I woudn't recommend anybody take it without 4ad. I like the idea of frontloading 4ad alone for 1-2 weeks then adding m1t. I havent tried it yet, but that should allow for 4ad to have really kicked in before adding m1t.
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On the cycle I just ended, I frontloaded my 4AD/4OHT for 10 days, then began my 4-weeks of M1T. This made my cycle much more comfortable. Needless to say, I will do this for my next cycles as well.
 
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