Dione better than Diol?!?!

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  1. Dione better than Diol?!?!


    It goes against everything I've read in the last 2-3 years involving PHs, but maybe it's possible. Bill L. sites a study comparing 4-Dione and 4-Diol and Pat Arnold attempts to refute it. Gets pretty ugly...

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantfo...=ST&f=1&t=2019


  2. Imagine that
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  3. Oh yeah, for those who don't know, "PA System" is Pat Arnold.

  4. I don't trust either of these guys, they're both in it for the money. They're both smart, but they act like children.

  5. I take it with a grain of salt but I would want to see more research on it than besides these two guys.
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  6. actually most people will defend the dione version of 1,4 as opposed to the diol, correct me if im wrong, but i think it has a higher bioavailability than its diol counterpart. for a definitive answer talk to BDC, curt, or yj, they should be able to help u out.

  7. I think the 1,4diol vs 1,4dione is up in the air. Their discussion has to do with 4diol vs andro though.

  8. well if p.a is still saying that the diones r not more bioavail..why doesnt someone ask why he releasde 1-adione first

  9. Originally posted by wojo
    well if p.a is still saying that the diones r not more bioavail..why doesnt someone ask why he releasde 1-adione first
    Actually, PA is siding with the Diol of course since 4-Diol was his patented product. I think that he's since lost the patent.

    In the study it shows the 4-Androdione produced more test than the 4-Diol. Of course, you also have much more estrogen conversion from the Dione.

    It's just one study and doesn't prove anything to me, but it's very interesting, none the less, because it goes against what most people on these boards have accepted as a given.

  10. Originally posted by u4ik_rage


    It's just one study and doesn't prove anything to me, but it's very interesting, none the less, because it goes against what most people on these boards have accepted as a given.
    How's that for a run-on sentence?

  11. who gives a **** which one converts better. Have you ever thought that the diol's have inherent activity???? That makes them NOT prohormones but steroids. 4-AD is not a prohormone. 4 -dione im sure wouldn'thave inherenent activity(as far as i know).

  12. Originally posted by pjorstad
    who gives a **** which one converts better. Have you ever thought that the diol's have inherent activity???? That makes them NOT prohormones but steroids. 4-AD is not a prohormone. 4 -dione im sure wouldn'thave inherenent activity(as far as i know).
    I was just summarizing. If you don't care, you could always hit the back button on your browser.

  13. Originally posted by u4ik_rage


    I was just summarizing. If you don't care, you could always hit the back button on your browser.
    Very true.

  14. Originally posted by pjorstad
    <B>who gives a **** which one converts better. Have you ever thought that the diol's have inherent activity???? That makes them NOT prohormones but steroids. 4-AD is not a prohormone. 4 -dione im sure wouldn'thave inherenent activity(as far as i know). </B>

    actually, 4-ad is not a steroid, it is in fact, a prohormone. just because it has anabolic properties, does not make it a steroidal hormone. its a precursor to one, therefore, its a prohormone.

  15. Originally posted by pjorstad



    Actually why don't you keep your input out until you know what your talking about. Testosterone has "anabolic" propertires but guess what! Its a prohormone because it converts to dht and estrogen!

    Like i said 4-AD is an anabolic steroid.
    Please delete this before people read it.....

  16. you need to think about what you say pjorstad. its without a doubt ok to lay out your views and opinons, but comments like that aint necessary and you should know that. Sage

  17. Originally posted by sage
    you need to think about what you say pjorstad. its without a doubt ok to lay out your views and opinons, but comments like that aint necessary and you should know that. Sage
    Dont worry about it, this comes from the same guy who wants to know if you can smoke fina.....

  18. oh my god pjorstad, i cannot believe what u just said, that has to be one of the single most ignorant things i have ever heard someone say on this forum. im not gonna screw up this thread because it actually has a valid point, so after this, our little argument is over, but there r a few things i have to clear up for u, and i'm gonna do it in terms u can understand. first off, do u even know what a steroid is? its a hormone, so there for testosterone is a steroid. second, 4-ad is not a hormone, so therefore it is not a steroid, and last, lets say u were correct, then how do u explain 4-diol being a steroid, but 4-dione not? christ, i thought this was gonna be a forum without bull****, for more educated people. its one thing to be a newbie and ask questions, but to blatently state false info, then lash out at people who try to correct u, thats just stupid.

  19. Well said.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  20. Originally posted by drfly
    oh my god pjorstad, i cannot believe what u just said, that has to be one of the single most ignorant things i have ever heard someone say on this forum. im not gonna screw up this thread because it actually has a valid point, so after this, our little argument is over, but there r a few things i have to clear up for u, and i'm gonna do it in terms u can understand. first off, do u even know what a steroid is? its a hormone, so there for testosterone is a steroid. second, 4-ad is not a hormone, so therefore it is not a steroid, and last, lets say u were correct, then how do u explain 4-diol being a steroid, but 4-dione not? christ, i thought this was gonna be a forum without bull****, for more educated people. its one thing to be a newbie and ask questions, but to blatently state false info, then lash out at people who try to correct u, thats just stupid.
    Back off here! Pjorstad is correct. 4-AD is an anabolic steroid, like 1-test, and is found naturally occuring in the blood, just like testosterone. It is a hormone, and thus a steroid, not a PRE-hormone. Doesn't need conversion, like 1-AD.

    As far as whether the dione or diol form of 1,4-Androstadiene is more potent, the competition has already proven Bill's point. Sci-Fit, just knew Bill was wrong and came out with a DIOL version of Boldione called Andro-Poise. A lot of people jumped on this diol product, and everyone was dissappointed. It doesn't come close to the dione.

  21. Originally posted by sage
    you need to think about what you say pjorstad. its without a doubt ok to lay out your views and opinons, but comments like that aint necessary and you should know that. Sage
    Now you've done it. You've got my "dream woman" in your avatar!

  22. quote:

    Back off here! Pjorstad is correct. 4-AD is an anabolic steroid, like 1-test, and is found naturally occuring in the blood, just like testosterone. It is a hormone, and thus a steroid, not a PRE-hormone. Doesn't need conversion, like 1-AD.

    i know i said that i wasnt gonna hijack this thread any further, but im just a little obsessive on matters such as this. first, id like to apologize if i came off kinda strong, its jsut i can get kinda riled up about these things. anyways, what im actually posting to say, is that i have set the record straight on this, 4-AD is not an anabolic steroid. although it does have inherent anabolic activity in the bloodstream, and is naturally occuring, this does not classify it as a steroid, the simple fact that it is not an actual hormone is the reason. it is (as i have stated at least twice now) a pre-cursor to a hormone, hence the reason why people talk about its conversion rate to testosterone. thats exactly what it is, a pre-cursor to testosterone. and if u still dont believe me, ask BDC, or Curt, or YJ, and if that still does not convince u, take a look at Big Cat's prohormone profiles on bb.com, or even at the thread on this board that describes the marketed prohormones. if it wasnt a pre-cursor to a hormone, it would be labeled as a pro-steroid, and wouldnt have a conversion rate.

  23. Once again testerone is a prohormone by your same logic since it converts to estrogen and dht which are both hormones that have an effect on strength and muscle building.


    I believe patrick arnold wasn't aware of 4-AD's inherent activity or at least probably thought there wasn't enough evidence at the time when it first came out so it was marketed strictly as a prohormone.

    I believe 1-AD also has this inherent activity too which is why both of them work so well over the diones and other prohormones for that matter. In fact im not sure if a TRUE prohormone can really work at all since 1-AD and 4-AD aren't strictly prohormones and they are they are considered the best besides 1-test, but that doesn't convert to anything.

  24. actually there right 4-ad is a hormone..dan duchaine said this awhile back too
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