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    Alright so, I'm going into WK3 of my PCT, and with all these sick deals now, due

    to the close at hand BAN!!! I'm stocking up and getting ready for round 2.

    My question to you guys is what you think about a M-drol/H-drol/1Tren stack?

    I have P-Plex.....which would be better to run with this..? If not then I'll just

    stack M-drol and 1Tren...looking for your guys(s) thoughts. Anyone here run

    this kind of stack recently?

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    HHHHmmmm.....no answers?

    I think I'm going to go with M-drol/P-Plex/1Tren for this next round.

    Any ideas on dosing....?

    SO far I think...

    M-drol = 10/10/20/20

    P-Plex= 25/25/50/50 or last wk 75

    1TREN= Bottle recommended doses 3ml/6ml/9ml/9ml

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    are you just sticking with 4 weeks ?
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    sorry i missed this bro! I was thinking of a stack like this in the spring if bloodwork says i can. I'm excited to see how the 1-t tren liquidvade plays out for you - i think im going to pick some up myself.
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    ^^^^Right on I'll be sure to let you know....

    Yea...4Wks is the goal...why do you ask?
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    Stacking M-Drol (or any Superdrol clone) with any other steroid makes me nervous. :-\ After all three of my Superdrol cycles I have never once thought I needed to stack it with anything else and two of them were only 3 weeks at 10mg.

    That being said if you do attempt it, good luck!
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    i was thinking of stacking 1-t tren with epi - 6 weeks
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    Sounds good chemist as both compounds are relatively mild while still producing optimal results if used correctly in conjunction with diet and good supplementation. I just got myself a bottle of epi and I can't wait to give it a go.

    Cheers
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    I'll probably run a small dose of Epi in PCT...we will see...

    Thanks for the feedback on this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIXXER View Post
    I'll probably run a small dose of Epi in PCT...we will see...

    Thanks for the feedback on this...
    you're joking about running epi on ptc
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    ^^^^Nope....

    Been there done that, and it works out real well. Not for the beginner though.

    besides AI in PCT is personal pref. although highly discouraged!!!

    Here is a good place to ref too....

    Epi in PCT? and......

    Epi in PCT?



    Repp 'em if you like 'em
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIXXER View Post
    ^^^^Nope....

    Been there done that, and it works out real well. Not for the beginner though.

    besides AI in PCT is personal pref. although highly discouraged!!!

    Here is a good place to ref too....

    Epi in PCT? and......

    Epi in PCT?



    Repp 'em if you like 'em
    Good links. I'd rep you but i need to spread around some, haha. The arguments are sound. IDK if its for me but it does make sense. I'd like to see some bloodwork justification but who's got the $$ to get $500 in bloodwork every month?

    Anyway jix, good luck with your cycle. What are your goals? I was thinking of a very lean bulk with 3x-4x/wk HIIT laps in the pool and lifting 4x-5x/wk. maybe last 2 weeks of may and june. I just bought my 2 bottles tren liquivade and my wife is going to be pissed I spent $150 but she'll get over it! Haha. Anyway, lunchtime then shoveling 1.5ft of snow!
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    Goals....

    Really I want to get my weight up....but as lean as possible from 205-225/230...

    Long goal, but I'm confident that I can achieve it.

    Lifting 5X Wk and Running 2mi 3X Wk but will probably 2X Wk....

    Yea my buddy is into the HIIT Trng....I want to keep my gains without having

    to eat a ridiculous amount of calories...


    What about you....?
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    Heck yea im starting my HIIT training with sprints next month and the cycle looks cool bro to advanced for me going to start out my first cycle wit H-drol then move to others.
    with the resoults i have seen from what your cycle has just done for you im sure your going to be able to reach 230 NP
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    My goal presently is to be a very lean 190. After that, i'll reassess and maybe shoot to be larger but maybe not.
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    hey maybe i could be of some help... over the summer i stacked phera and p-tren...great gains bad idea lol. never so shut down in my life, and depressed outta my mind for 2 weeks but i was 225 so i shouldnt be b****in. right now im running phera /m-drol.
    phera - 10-20-20-
    mdrol - 10- 20-20-10
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    sorry that didnt come out right.
    weeks 1-3 are phera at 10,20,20
    weeks 3-6 are superdrol at 10,20,20,10
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    ^^^^ thanks...but one question why not run p-plex all 4wks...?
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    10mgs of epi daily has been shown through bloodwork to be pretty suppressive. It has no place in PCT.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.
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    ^^^^ if used with proper SERM, it has a home or at least apartment in PCT....check out the links....by the way you forgot to add IMO after your statement...
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    I did check out the links. There's nothing in them to conclusively back up your theory. The supposed "SERM-like" properties of epi have been way overstated from the get-go, as well as the whole AI thing. It's marketing, not science. The actual testing shows that even 10mgs is suppressive. Suppressive compounds have no place in PCT. On top of that, epi's half-life is somewhere around 8-9 hours, which is much too long to be used in the way you're talking about.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.
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    I never said Epi has SERM like attributes.....I stated this type of "marketing" is very feasible given the individual is taking a SERM in PCT....not Epi having SERM like advantages or using solely in a PCT as an inclusive recovery method.

    Link to your sources would be nice.....where it shows blood test results and AI is just marketing....

    Here is more info. for everyone. The link is where the below can be found.

    Keep in mind the HIGHER doses that are being ran.....way more than 10mg(s)

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Informatio...ane&id=1130568


    Epistane

    Other brand names:

    Epistane , Havoc, Hemaguno

    What is Epistane?

    Epistane is one of the newest designer steroids on the market today, and it is gaining attention very quickly. Epistane is actually a methylated version of the controlled substance Epitiostanol (2,3-Epithio-5-androstan-17-ol), which was created in the 1960's and used as a treatment for breast cancer. Since the only place Epitiostanol is only availabe at this time is in japan, chemists added a methyl group to the compund and the final product was a substance now known as Epistane. Epistane is a sulfur containing steroid which is known to have strong and long lasting anti-estrogenic activity as well as weak androgenic and mytropic activities.

    What you can expect?

    Since it is designed to be anti-estrogenic you can expect very dry gains from this compound. Epistane has low androgenic to anabolic activity. This meaning that it is much more anabolic then androgenic. Thus making sides very minimal to non existant from this substance. Also one of the great properties of this substance is that it does a great job in keeping the natural suppression of the gonads away. Since it has anti-estrogenic properties it keeps your LH levels elevated and it is also said both through science and human trial that epistane may have the ability to reduce gyno. This is still a widely debated outcome of epistane but is actually showing more and more positive results as it becomes more popular. Even though users will see dry gains on epistane it does not mean that it would be any insufficient for a bulking cycle. In fact it would be beneficial because it would generate lean gains. Through research it is reported that most users who have taken this substance have gained anywhere from 5-12 lbs in a 3-5 week cycle. Now in my opinion epistane would be better in a cutting cycle to keep the body dry while preserving and potentially add more lean muscle tissue.

    Dosing:

    Most users run epistane for 1-6 weeks using a dose between 10 and 60 mgs.

    You should not run this substance for longer than 6 weeks.

    A recommended beginner cycle would be starting at 10 mgs for the first 2 days of the cycle and then running it like this for the rest of the cycle.

    Week 1: 10 mgs for the first 2 days then increasing the dose to 20 mgs.

    Week 2: 20 mgs

    Week 3: 30 mgs

    Week 4: 40 mgs- This week should be optional depending on how your body reacts.

    While taking epistane you should be aware that it is a methylated compund therefore you should not exceed the proper dosing.

    What needs to be taken with Epistane?

    Even though epistane has very minimal side effects, you should still use the proper support supplements to make sure your body stays in good health throughout the cycle. Since Epistane is methylated, milk thistle is highly recomended to protect the liver values. It would also be wise to get blood work done after completing a cycle.

    Red Yeast Rice- This product is a Fermented Rice product that basicly protects your cardiovascular system from any damage Sostonol that may come from Sostonol.

    Celery Seed- Acts as an anti-oxidant which helps reduce blood pressure and also can aid the liver on cycle.

    Hawthorne Berry: Also very useful to lower BP and keep it on check. A great on cycle supplement.
    Dosage 1000mg ed on cycle.

    Milk Thistle (80% standardized Silymarin)- This should be taken all the way through. It should be started as a pre load and be taken all the way through PCT(Post Cycle Therapy).

    Also you may want to look further into these products to help with blood pressure and cholesterol regulation / liver and support:

    Liver: K-R-ALA, NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine), Lecithin

    Cholesterol: Sesathin, Guggul, CoEnzyme Q10*, Flax Seed Oil, Safflower Oil*, Policosanol*, Niacin, Garlic, Pantethine

    Blood Pressure: Coenzyme Q10, Garlic ,C-12 Peptide, high-dose vitamin B6 and vitamin C.

    Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

    Even though epistane does have anti-estrogenic properties, it does not mean that PCT should be avoided. A proper SERM will make sure that your natural hormone levels are back where they were before the cycle.

    Here I have outlined the basic Clomid and Nolvadex doses for a proper cycle of Sostonol.

    Basic Post Cycle Therapy:

    Note: You only need to use one of these serms.

    Clomid:

    Day 1: 300mg

    Day 2-11: 100mg daily

    Day 12-21: 50mg daily

    Clomid:

    week 1: 150mg

    week 2: 100

    week 3: 50

    week 4: 50

    If you do not want to use clomid then:

    Tamoxifen:

    Week 1 (or 2): 40-50 mg daily.

    Week 2 (or 3) through week 4 (or 5): 20-25mg daily.

    Tamoxifen:

    week 1: 40mg daily

    week 2: 40mg daily

    week 3: 20mg daily

    week 4: 20mg daily

    Conclusion:

    I would definitely recommend epistane for both amateur and experienced AAS users because of it's greal lean muscle building properties. Even though it is a great substance to use on its own, I think it would be beneficial to add another substance like Prostanozol, or 1,4 AD which is not a methyl and stack the two. The reasoning behind using a non-methyl while stacking is because epistane is already metyhlated and could be dangerous if used with a methylated Prohormone/Designer Steroid like Superdrol or Halodrol.

    We at http://www.hormone-expert.com have no affiliation with IBE or any of the companys which make the products that we write about. All information here is real and written for the benefit of our users.

    Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Joe_Page

    Rep it if you like it....
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    Another great link...

    http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...r-counter.html

    The diagram shows Epi would have a half life of 6hr(s)"estimated"....I've done the research...you do the

    math....

    Rep it if you like it....
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Ive done epi in PCT and usually add a week on cycle with low dose epi as well regardless of the compound- it's removed my gyno in the past and I will always have a bottle on hand if it comes up again-- and for low dose pulses during PCTs..
    I'm with the OP: Great ideas although I too wouldn't stack SD- just a hard compound on my joints and blood pressure.
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    jixxer - the info looks good. I would be sure to run the SERM longer than the epi tho if it was me. I mean.... i could see the argument go both ways and I haven't looked into it in significant detail but i like the argument you've made.

    bound - you said bloodwork studies indicate that 10mg epi is suppressive. Can you provide a citation? Not trying to call you out, just curious. If there is a study indiciating 10mg is suppressive to a noteworthy extent then one would have to seriously question using it in PCT. I googled but could not find anything.
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    ^^^^^Roger that.....I plan too....

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    If there is a study indiciating 10mg is suppressive to a noteworthy extent then one would have to seriously question using it in PCT.
    I agree....
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    Jixxer, great info on Epi! The link you provided to the chart was posted here at AM by Ziquor. Would post the link myself but it doesn't trust me yet, lol!

    It was one of the first posts I came across here awhile back when I first started my research into all this stuff. Kinda gave me an idea of what I should start with, ya know? I, however, did not know that the Q Ratio in the chart stood for the amount of mg for the half-life. If that's what it means, then my goodness does that help me out with my dosage timing! I'd rep ya, but it too keeps telling me I have to spread it around...lol!
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    Sry I was typing to fast.....let me correct myself...

    Q-ratio (ratio of how anabolic to androgenic a compound is) The lower the

    Q-ratio the less androgenic, meaning a lower risk of side effects (usually).


    Epitiostanol has multiple hormonal and antihormonal activities: androgenic,
    myogenic, progestional, anti-estrogenic, and anti-gonadotropic (11,12).
    Epitiostanol does not demonstrate estrogenic activity. Hepatotoxicity and
    hypercalcemia are non-existant in a study of 45 patients administered
    epitiostanol. "The drug could be administered in a patient with cirrhosis of the liver without any signs of acute elevation in the liver function tests (13)."

    Source;
    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/l...hp/t28019.html

    Miyake T, and Takeda K. Epithioandrostanol, a new type of anti-estrogen. Excerpta Med Found Int Congr Ser 132:616-627, 1967.
    Miyake T, and Tanaka A. Studies on 2a,3a-epithio-5a-androstan-17b-ol and related compounds. Part II. Hormonal and anti-hormonal activities of 2a,3a-epithio-5a-androstan-17b-ol. Annu Rep Shionogi Res Lab 19:20-38, 1969.
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    Oh ok, I got ya. So no matter the mg dosage the half-life is the same (Epi being approx 6 hours)?
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    According to this chart I believe so, but that doesn't make me happy.

    I'm still researching the subject. Chk back for updates....

    "Approx=No, Estimated=Yes"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassavus View Post
    Oh ok, I got ya. So no matter the mg dosage the half-life is the same (Epi being approx 6 hours)?
    Quote Originally Posted by JIXXER View Post
    According to this chart I believe so, but that doesn't make me happy.
    No this shouldn't concern either one of you. Half-life is the time is takes for half that "stuff" to be excreted by the body. So regardless of what it is, if the half life is 2 weeks and you take 500mg then after 2 weeks 250mg is left.

    Considering the generic case, the concentration at time t, which is C(t) is

    C(t)=C(0)(0.5)^(t/half-life)

    where C(0) is how much you take, t is the time since you took it, and half-life is the half-life. The time, t, and the half-life need to be in the same units. So the 2 week half-life should be 14 days, t is the number of days since the dose, C(0) is the amount you take and C(t) is the amount left after t days. As in the example mentioned, C(0) is 500mg so,

    C(t)=(500mg)(0.5)^(t/14)

    Now.... in reality it gets more complicated. If you are on test-e and we assume a half life of 14 days, for example, you probably take 250mg every 3.5 days.

    So you take your first shot and

    C(t)=(250)(0.5)^(t/14)

    and after 3.5 days

    C(t)=(250)(0.5)^(3.5/14)=210mg

    then you take another shot so you now have

    210mg+250mg=460mg

    then 3.5 days later

    C(t)=(460mg)(0.5)^(3.5/14)=387mg

    As your cycle continues, more and more build in your body but not all of it is active. The ester needs to be cleaved before it is active so taking 387mg all at once is not the same as taking 250, waiting 3.5 days and then taking another 250mg.

    This is an incredibly difficult topic which I'll come back to later to explain better but for now I need sleep to prep for the holidays tomorrow.
    Back.... for real this time
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    Wow, what a post Chemist

    Not going to lie, but I understood about half of that. lol! Thanks for the info though! Jixxer, kinda feel like we've jacked your thread here man. Sorry bout that.

    Your stack sounds real interesting. Since your finishing up your current cycle...when do you think you'll start this one? Wish I could afford a bottle or two of the Tren Liqua-Vade before the deadline...stuff is expensive though!
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    Dam good post Chemist.....I appricate the help with understanding this

    I will be waiting for you to come back to this topic..I'm all about the

    education.......As for the Hijax no offense taken.....I enjoy more info

    stemming from anything original.......I plan on 8wks off before the

    next....should put me somewhere around Feb 2010.....this is the first time on

    since the holidays.....still enjoying the time off vistiting FAM....TTYL
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