Unreal's Guide to Injectables

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Yeah I had read that many like kickstarting an injectable cycle with something like SD or other compound that provides good and quick gains....with the theory in mind that the injectable will help maintain and solidify and if not improve upon those gains.

    One other question....and I may be opening up a can of worms here so i'm sorry if that's the case. I also know next to nothing about peptides...is that a whole nother ball game or can they be ran along-side an injectable steroid?

    I've just seen a lot of peptides like CJC-xxxx and GHRP so on and so forth...if you could point me in the right direction it'd be much appreciated. Just trying to get learned as my most my knowledge consists of basic oral PH/DS.

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty33 View Post
    true what exactly is a peptide and how does it differ from PH/AAS
    Amino acids are the building blocks of life. They snap together like legos and if you sting together a bunch of amino acids you get a peptide. Now some peptides lack function in the human body such as the peptides you find in your whey, soy, or casein protein. These peptides merely exist so that the body can digest them, break them down, and reassemble them in a different sequence to yield muscle fibers. However, not all peptides are innocuous. The body natively uses peptides to assist in many complex processes. Hence, when there are more of these peptides in the body (such as the ones that help build muscle fibers) these processes occur more frequently.

    The biggest difference between peptides, like IGF-1 and GHRP, and PH/AAS is that peptides do not shut down the HPTA. Now... some people do run IGF-1, for example, at the end of a cycle to push for more gains when gains are almost maxed out. I, however, suggest using them in a different way. I am in my last week of a 16 week sustanon/deca cycle and will be starting PCT soon. I plan on running IGF-1 2-3 weeks into PCT to prevent the catabolism of the gained muscle.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Peptides is a whole 'nother guide guys! And one I can't write. I don't know **** about peptides. There is a subforum for
    it though, last I checked.
    Awww man and here you had us thinkin you knew it all

    That's cool I'll check out the subforum.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    Amino acids are the building blocks of life. They snap together like legos and if you sting together a bunch of amino acids you get a peptide. Now some peptides lack function in the human body such as the peptides you find in your whey, soy, or casein protein. These peptides merely exist so that the body can digest them, break them down, and reassemble them in a different sequence to yield muscle fibers. However, not all peptides are innocuous. The body natively uses peptides to assist in many complex processes. Hence, when there are more of these peptides in the body (such as the ones that help build muscle fibers) these processes occur more frequently.

    The biggest difference between peptides, like IGF-1 and GHRP, and PH/AAS is that peptides do not shut down the HPTA. Now... some people do run IGF-1, for example, at the end of a cycle to push for more gains when gains are almost maxed out. I, however, suggest using them in a different way. I am in my last week of a 16 week sustanon/deca cycle and will be starting PCT soon. I plan on running IGF-1 2-3 weeks into PCT to prevent the catabolism of the gained muscle.
    Makes sense. On a side....how did your sust/deca cycle turn out?
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  3. 2nd how did the cycle go. also where does hgh fall in?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Makes sense. On a side....how did your sust/deca cycle turn out?
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty33 View Post
    2nd how did the cycle go. also where does hgh fall in?
    The cycle went well. I probably should have held it for longer but I had already held it for almost 9 months. The reason i say I shldve held it longer is I wanted to lean out some still before bulking again. I used the cycle as a recomp, lost a good deal of bf from the mid-section and still gained a net of 15 lbs. It might be too soon to tell but I feel like the gains are solid and I'm hoping to keep them permanently. I'll probably take the rest of the year off, get some blood work circa april and then again in sept. If I focus on staying lean then I should be ready for a full out bulk in Dec./Jan. again.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    The cycle went well. I probably should have held it for longer but I had already held it for almost 9 months. The reason i say I shldve held it longer is I wanted to lean out some still before bulking again. I used the cycle as a recomp, lost a good deal of bf from the mid-section and still gained a net of 15 lbs. It might be too soon to tell but I feel like the gains are solid and I'm hoping to keep them permanently. I'll probably take the rest of the year off, get some blood work circa april and then again in sept. If I focus on staying lean then I should be ready for a full out bulk in Dec./Jan. again.
    Nice man. Keep us posted on how everything turns out.
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  6. Here is an older, but still pretty guide/info as well..

    Many cycles explained and outlined, (STICKY?)
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222

  7. Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    Here is an older, but still pretty guide/info as well..

    Many cycles explained and outlined, (STICKY?)
    thanks copycat - i'll look at this
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  8. nephilim was one of the few guys here who really knew AAS it's too bad he doesn't post anymore
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

  9. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    nephilim was one of the few guys here who really knew AAS it's too bad he doesn't post anymore
    maybe he got sick of some of the BS - I still think the pros outweigh the cons around here.
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  10. what type of bs?

  11. Think it's a bad idea to use insulin pins for winni and test prop?

  12. why not just pick up some more pins at a pharmacy

  13. always giving us excellents informations,thank you buddy

  14. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty33 View Post
    what type of bs?
    people think they know it all - people who know nothing and get attitudy judy about ppl giving them good advice - idk, stuff like that


    like i said i think its all good around this joint but i cld see why someone might log off for good.
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  15. agreed thats 2 bad, i learn new stuff every day

  16. Unreal, I must say this is a great post and obviously it has shown with all the responses. I can say the subject header is what caught my eye only because about 6 months ago I was thinking the same thing should I go to the "dark side" and I decided to. Unfortunately I seemed to not have a good experience as I have with the orals. I took a 10 week cycle of Deca at 1cc a week and for PCT i took Clomid at 100/75/50/25. After all the reading and responses from everyone it looked this this would be a great fit for me. The cycle was amazing had great gains everything was very lean, didnt experience and loss in labido or anything even without taking Test along side it.

    Now here I am 4 months off the cycle and my body is still completly shut down. I have had several blood test and all came back very low. Just to give you an idea my levels were so low they were half of that of the lowest value they give in the range. The docs have now told me that I have to go see an endocrinologist, and of course when I told them what I did they basically said "there is little they can do there are not magic jumper cables they can jump start me with" I dont know if that is something they are doing to scare me or what.

    I felt like sharing this with you because you seem very intelligent on the subject and might have some insight in the matter. Now I am no stranger to the orals I have used Superdrol, Phera-Plex, Trenavar(19nor products), and H-drol. And after coming off these products never been as shut down as I have now. Do you think there are some people that just cant run the real gear or am I just an exception to the rule, am I really doomed for life as the doctor as seemed to portray to me?

    MizXXL

  17. I am surprised at several things... how could you run a deca-only cycle after reading so much? it should be pretty apparent that deca-only is discouraged. Anyway at least you made gains on 1cc deca a week, that's just not a very good cycle IMO...

    Now about being so shutdown, that's pretty unexpected after just 1 vial of deca followed up by a proper clomid PCT.

    But the doctors are wrong as usual, you can jumpstart yourself... The doctors will probably look for the easy solution which is putting you on HRT but you can recover your natural test, but you'll have to work on that ASAP. I have read about people being unable to recover and then do another cycle and proper PCT again and that resets them properly. Also doing therapy with serms and natural test boosters, or hCG etc. There are ways so don't let the doctors convince you to give up... **** the doctors.

    i think 1 of two things is happening 1) you are very sensitive to deca because 1cc a week is hardly enough to make gains on for most people or 2) clomid was bunk.
    I know it's not very likely that the clomid was bad but after just 1 vial of deca you should not be THAT shutdown, nandrolone is very suppressive but you didn't even lose libido... I'm pretty surprised at that... Maybe the clomid was bad but who knows...

    At this point just try to get your natural test going again, there's ways, look at the forums, particularly AAS boards, look for threads about recovering after being on for more than a year, lots of people have done it, check out their methods, I forgot them.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

  18. Miz - interesting situation.

    As Unreal said, you probably didn't do enough research before jumping in - no offense. Deca is a funny compound and, even tho I like it, I think it is one of the most difficult compounds to run correctly. Without question and without addressing any of the other issues I found with deca, you always want to run deca with a test base. IMHO, Deca can provide gains when testosterone based hypertrophy gains have been almost maxed out. Since most of us are no where near that point I wouldn't bother with deca until you have ample AAS experience. I personally experimented with it (on my dog) last cycle and found 300mg-400mg / wk was my dog's sweet spot. Libido thru the roof, massive gains, etc.

    That being said, I'm assuming your deca was 100mg/mL and thus you were running 100mg weekly. This is a very low dose and shouldn't have shut you down too hard. Which deca ester were you running? Deca-durabolin? Your clomid PCT of 100/75/50/25 - this was 100mg ED for a week, followed by 75mg ED for a week, etc.? I talked to someone recently who thought that 100/75/50/25 meant 4 days worth stepping down every day. Also deca has a long retention time and so you want to wait 2 weeks from last inject to start PCT.

    What's done is done. From here on out we need to get you back on track. First and foremost, DONT tell doctors anymore about your "experience". The cause of the shutdown is immaterial. They will run your bloodwork and treat your symptoms. By admitting to illegal drug use you may exempt yourself from insurance coverage and/or may alter their prognosis for you. If I were you I'd switch docs and start fresh but that is just me.

    As for self-treatment to get back on track.... did you get bloodwork before cycle? What were your levels before cycle? How long have you been off your deca-only cycle? PM me about your PCT, I want more info about what you ran.

    As Unreal brilliantly stated, a low dose short-run test cycle (6 wks maybe) with hCG to get ur boys pumping, followed by a nice dose of clomid/sustain alpha, followed by arimidex/sustain alpha should get you completely back on track. I'm surprised so many ppl have problems getting back on track. I rebound like a champ.

    EDIT: Of course, I don't have any personal experience since I only use this on my dogs and horses. I'd never take illegal cmpds and any advice I provide is pure speculation.
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  19. crazy is clomi you serm of choice? What are your thoughts on torem

  20. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty33 View Post
    crazy is clomi you serm of choice? What are your thoughts on torem
    Nolva in low doses on-cycle and Clomid during PCT has been my modus operandi. Nolva has always reduced my bloat and given me drier gains while clomid, in my assessment of how I feel, seems to get my natural test back on track. That being said, clomid sucks for the first week especially. I am so moody and its funny to watch me get all teary-eyed when a heartwarming commercial comes on. As far as torem, I've never used it myself but I hear amazing things. When it comes time to order another SERM for my hamster I'll probably give torem a try.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty33 View Post
    crazy is clomi you serm of choice? What are your thoughts on torem
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    Nolva in low doses on-cycle and Clomid during PCT has been my modus operandi. Nolva has always reduced my bloat and given me drier gains while clomid, in my assessment of how I feel, seems to get my natural test back on track. That being said, clomid sucks for the first week especially. I am so moody and its funny to watch me get all teary-eyed when a heartwarming commercial comes on. As far as torem, I've never used it myself but I hear amazing things. When it comes time to order another SERM for my hamster I'll probably give torem a try.
    Toremifene Citrate vs Tamoxifen Citrate

    Toremifene (fareston) - for Dr.D and others

    Toremifene Blood Work

    I read these posts ages ago and came to the conclusion that Toremifene Citrate aka Fareston is the best SERM you can buy.

  22. You guys know how I have concluded that there is no "best" steroid but people will respond to them differently and some work great for some people and work poorly for others.

    I think SERMs are the same way... your mileage may vary and so I don't think there can be one that's "best" for everybody

    Based on my experience, i'd side with Crazychemist, nolva for on cycle estrogen and gyno issues, clomid for PCT. Some people get bad sides from clomid though, and for some people toremifene works great, for me I thought toremifene sucked... I say try them all out, see which one works best, and use that for the rest of your life.
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  23. sounds like a legit plan. so if one was to start torem for pct and doesnt like it just switch to clomi? even tho its mid pct

  24. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    You guys know how I have concluded that there is no "best" steroid but people will respond to them differently and some work great for some people and work poorly for others.

    I think SERMs are the same way... your mileage may vary and so I don't think there can be one that's "best" for everybody

    Based on my experience, i'd side with Crazychemist, nolva for on cycle estrogen and gyno issues, clomid for PCT. Some people get bad sides from clomid though, and for some people toremifene works great, for me I thought toremifene sucked... I say try them all out, see which one works best, and use that for the rest of your life.
    Agreed. Remember in alot of these cases we are dealing with competitive inhibition, so molecules that look like estrogen but aren't bind to receptors adn block that receptor site. Everyone's body is a little different and its possible one SERM maybe shuttled to the site more efficiently than another.
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  25. I found these two posts on another website, and thought they'd be a great addition to the info already posted in this thread. Just helping to create a nice one stop shop for injectable info.

    http://www.xtremebodybuilding.net/an...84-esters.html

    http://www.xtremebodybuilding.net/an...hots-hurt.html
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