Unreal's Guide to Injectables

UnrealMachine

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Figured with the PH ban some of you pill-popping boyscouts would look to peek into the darkside. There's not as much AAS info on this site so this should help.
Of course, this guide is for entertainment purposes only

Introduction
Injectable steroids don't need to be methylated to survive the first pass effect of the liver, so basically the liver toxicity is negligible. This allows them to be run longer and stacked more aggressively. Shutdown, side effects, and gains occur as with oral steroids, the main difference is that oral steroids have a half-life measured in hours, and injectable steroids are usually esterified to extend their half-life so that it's measured in days (to allow less frequent injects). This means injectable cycles are usually run with more moderate gains over a longer period of time, which improves the keepability of the gains.

Suspensions
Now, any steroid molecule by itself has an extremely short half-life; a product made from pure steroid molecules without esters attached is called a suspension. You may hear of test suspension, tren suspension, and of course winstrol is a suspension (suspensions can be oil-based or water based, water supposedly hurts more). Suspensions should be injected twice a day, though people usually do 1x a day because they're so painful. Because they hit you so fast, and because no mass is lost to an ester, suspensions are much more powerful on a mg/mg basis.

Esterified Steroids
Esters - The overwhelming majority of injectable steroids are esterified, so instead of being alkalated with a methyl group at the 17th carbon position, or left as a suspension, an ester is attached, which serves to extend the half life of the molecule by rendering it inactive until the ester is cleaved off.
An ester's half-life is roughly proportional to the length of the ester! So longer esters result in longer half lives which means it takes a lot more time for the steroid to kick in.
Ester Weights - The longer the ester, the longer the half life, and the higher the mass of the ester. Longer esters mean for every 100mg of steroid you use, less of it is actual steroid molecule and more of it is soon-to-be-worthless esters. So long-estered steroids are less potent, mg/mg, than shorter-estered steroids. I.E. 100mg of test prop is contains more testosterone than 100mg of test cypionate, because more weight is tied up in the larger cypionate ester.
Injection Frequency - Anecdotal evidence points to more frequent injects leading to less sides because of more stable blood levels (I speak of tren ace taken everyday vs. every other day). But some people break the rules, inject test enanthate once a week and it works great for them. Most of the time, short esters like test prop and tren ace are shot everyday or every other day and long esters are shot twice a week -- you could do some of them 1x a week but if you have to inject 4mL of oil you're going to need two injects anyway.
Short Esters Vs. Long Esters - Short esters have a reputation for causing less bloat than long-esters, some people swear this to be the case, some people run both and notice no difference. I haven't been able to find anything scientific to support the idea of longer esters causing more bloat... At any rate it is important to dispel any preconceived notions that shorter esters are for cutting and longer esters are for bulking, it's not that simple.
Sustanon - Sustanon had to be mentioned specifically because it is a blend of testosterone esters, usually it's 30mg propionate, 100mg decanoate, 60mg isocaproate, and 60mg phenylpropionate. The idea is to keep blood levels more stable by having several esters releasing in a cascade from shortest to longest. In practice, it functions more like enanthate, about 4 weeks to kick in. People often say to inject it more frequently because of the propionate in there, but 30mg out of 250mg isn't enough to worry about.
Ester Clearance - because esters take so long to build up, they also take a while to leave, which means even after you stop injecting a long-ester like Test-Cypionate, you're still on cycle for a couple weeks. So usually the PCT is delayed by about 2 weeks following a long-ester cycle. Of course, the exact amount of time will depend on the ester and the dose, if there was something stacked, etc. Starting PCT a little early doesn't hurt... But if you've got steroid molecules actively causing suppression, you cannot recover yet.

I've tried to show everything in this table but keep in mind the half-life numbers are very rough, and the kick-in time is based on my observations and varies based on a number of variables.



This should fill in most of the holes people here have with injectable steroids. Here's the rest

Concentrations - Long-estered steroids are usually available in higher concentrations than short-estered steroids. Test E is usually 250mg/mL, sometimes 300mg/mL, while test prop is usually 100mg/mL. Shorter esters also tend to be more painful than longer esters.
Sometimes you'll see really high concentrations, like testosterone at 400mg/mL (supertest). This is usually facilitated by using a ton of BA (benzyl alcohol), which means that the gear will hurt like a bitch to inject. So this overdosed gear is usually diluted with long-estered gear or with pure sterile oil or injectable B12 to make the injections more bearable.
First Cycle - Testosterone-only is what's recommended. Test enanthate, cypionate, or sustanon, so that you can inject twice a week and run about 500mg a week for 10-12 weeks. I think a good addition is an oral kickstart for the first 4 weeks, as the testosterone isn't doing much for those weeks and this can give you a big headstart with gains and strength to capitalize on for the rest of your cycle.
Injection Technique - Get out your vial of gear, syringe with drawing needle, shooting needle, and alcohol swabs. Wipe the rubber stopper on the vial with an alcohol swab. Take out your sterile syringe with drawing needle (18-20g usually) and draw into it as many mL of air as you plan on injecting. Push this into the vial and expel the air, and then draw the same amount of oil into the syringe. This step is to maintain atmospheric pressure inside your vial.
Next remove the syringe, hold it upright, and draw back on the plunger a little to clear the oil out of the needle. Replace this needle with your shooting needle (23g or 25g), and then still holding it upright of course, push the plunger until all the air is cleared out and there's a drop of oil at the tip.
Use the alcohol swab on the injection site. Bring the needle over the exact spot you want to inject and bring it down so that the droplet of oil at the needletip marks the entrance point (lubrication!), and then push it in. Sometimes a spot just doesn't work out (lol) and you need to find a new spot and try again (technically you should swap needles but no one ever does this). Depth varies, but generally a 1" needle is used and you need to inject into the muscle, NOT the fat. After a successful stab, you pull back on the plunger just enough to see a bubble forming in the bottom of the syringe where it attaches to the needle, you do not need to pull hard, if you are in a vein you'll know, as positive pressure will cause blood to gush into the syringe. Assuming you are not in a vein, go ahead and inject slowly. Remove the needle, wipe up any blood with the alcohol swab, massage the injection site a little, and you're done.

hCG = human chorionic gonadotropin
Because it is not uncommon for injectable cycles to run longer than oral-only cycles the athlete needs to address an additional risk. Once the body shuts down it's own testosterone production via the HPTA, the testicular function will drop significantly and, because this may be over a long period of time, the testicles can atrophy to the point where their long-term ability to function properly is at risk.
The testicles receive their signal to produce testosterone from the pituitary gland via Luteinizing hormone (LH). LH levels will rapidly decline when steroids are taken. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin is an LH mimicker, found in particularly high levels in pregnant females to prevent the breakdown of the fetus. For an athlete on steroids, hCG can be taken to stimulate the testes to produce testosterone and to prevent atrophy. For a healthy male with normal testicular function, a dose of 250-500iu 2x/wk is usually sufficient (though everyones sensitivity may vary). hCG should usually be started in the 3rd or 4th week of the cycle (or whenever the body is completely shutdown) and run until just before PCT.
It is a misnomer that hCG should be used during PCT. hCG is suppressive to the body's natural LH level and the HPTA. It will keep the testes functioning normally in the absence of stimuli but when trying to get the body back on its own normal track it is counter-productive.
On a related note, an endocrinologist, Dr. Simeons, theorized that the hCG 'programmed' the hypothalamus to catabolize adipose fat tissue only and not break down lean muscle tissue (essentially the mechanism by which it protects the fetus in pregnant women). He tested his theory by putting obese men on low doses of hCG and a 500 calorie/day diet. The results were incredible. A substantially higher percentage of the weight loss was adipose fat instead of muscle. However, it is important to note the hCG does NOT induce ANY fat loss itself. Rather the hCG spares the muscle tissue during catabolism.
hCG often comes in crystalline form and must be dissolved with anti-bacteriostatic water in a sealed sterile vial and then refrigerated to prevent degradation of the compound. It is usually injected using insulin pins (29gauge) and is usually injected subcutaneously (into the fat layer, using a pinched fat flab on the stomach) although it can also be injected instramuscularly.
*This part on hCG has been contributed by CrazyChemist.*

Injection Theory
Injection Volume - You will learn to strike a balance between injection frequency and volume. If your cycle calls for 600mg of test enanthate a week, and yours is 200mg/mL, then you need 3mL a week. You can do a single 3mL injection (not usually recommended, as with most 3mL syringes this means you cannot aspirate), two 1.5mL injections, or three 1mL injections.
Smaller injections cause much less site pain, but then you need to do more of them. Larger injections get the job done faster, but the site will usually be much more sore and for a much longer time, sometimes over a week, although the variability is very high.
Keep in mind that bigger muscle groups can handle larger injection volumes better. If you are doing a big injection of say 2.6mL, it's better off going into a glute than your deltoid.
I feel that if you are using a 3mL syringe, your maximum injection volume is around 2.7-2.8mL, you want to have enough space to move the plunger enough to be sure of your aspiration, fortunately due to the positive pressure of blood in a blood vessel, aspiration does not require that you pull the plunger back very far.
Site Rotation - You have 6 injection points, you have left deltoid, right deltoid, left quad, right quad, left glute, right glute, and you rotate through these however you see fit based on your volumes and frequencies. It is not necessary to involve every injection site. If you are injecting 2mL twice a week, you can put 2mL in your left quad and 2mL in your right quad and there's no need to involve glutes or deltoids... I have done lots of quad-only injecting because it's just way easier to inject there (I have done this even with everyday injects, finding different sites slightly up and down the quadricep). On the other hand, you may find 2mL injections cause too much discomfort and stick to 1mL injections and do four 1mL injections a week, involving only quads and glutes... Or you may bring deltoids into the rotation so that everything is hit less often.
It's up to you of course. I think the same kind of common sense applies here as with lifting weights, i don't work a muscle if it's already sore and I don't inject a site if it's already sore.
Needle Size - The gauge is the diameter of the needle, where smaller numbers mean larger diameters. Typically you'll want something like an 18g to a 21g as your "drawing" needle and either a 23g or a 25g as your "shooting" needle. And if it's not obvious enough after you see that those two ranges don't overlap, then know that you should never shoot with the needle you drew with. The tip is very, very sharp and just the act of poking it through the rubber stopper dulls it. When you inject with a dull needle it hurts more and shreds up your insides a little more.
22g is the largest you would ever want to inject with. Bigger than that will start to get painful...
I personally prefer 23g over 25g, the reason being that with a bigger diameter, you don't need as much pressure to get the oil out. This means with a 23g you don't need to press down on the plunger as hard, or as long, to do your injection, which is very nice when you're doing it awkwardly and one-handed.
For needle lengths, .75" is the minimum size, usually used only by lean guys. 1" needles are pretty standard, and 1.5" needles are recommended for glute injections for everyone carrying some fat on their asses. What size you use doesn't matter a ton, as you could use a 1.5" and only go halfway into a lean site, although this is quite a bit trickier than simply burying a .75" needle. All that really matters with the length is that you get past the fat and into the muscle, and that you aren't stupid enough to jab the needle into a bone or something (lol).
Basically a 1" needle will suffice for everything, and if you are concerned about your ass-fat, burying it all the way in should do the trick, unless your bodyfat is quite high. An inch of fat is a lot.

Personal Endnote
This guide should help understand what distinguishes injectable steroids from oral steroids, the "prohormones" that are so popular here. The main thing is to understand esters and how they determine half life, injection frequency, ester clearance, the concentrations attainable, etc. To gain a better grasp on injectable steroids and how to plan injectable cycles, you should read about all of them and learn exactly what they do. Learn what side effects they exhibit, and how to counter-act them. Remember that most cycles are usually run over a base of testosterone, this is for it's androgenic power and ability to keep your libido going while other compounds crush your natural testosterone levels.

-Unreal
 
Trauma1

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Nice job with this, Unreal. Reps to you. :)
 
Tomahawk88

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I am going to sub even though I know I dont need to.

Yet another great thread unreal.
 
n8te

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I've heard not to massage the area after injecting. Is there really any evidence to support massaging/not massaging the site post injection?
 
UnrealMachine

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I've heard not to massage the area after injecting. Is there really any evidence to support massaging/not massaging the site post injection?
Ok I've most often read that massaging the site is beneficial as it helps to disperse the oil... I am not 100% sure, but I usually let the muscle go limp and then kind of pound on it from different angles. Mooch brought up the point that massaging may get some oil up through the injection hole and into the fat layer... I dunno, i don't think this has occurred for me.
 
n8te

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Ok I've most often read that massaging the site is beneficial as it helps to disperse the oil... I am not 100% sure, but I usually let the muscle go limp and then kind of pound on it from different angles. Mooch brought up the point that massaging may get some oil up through the injection hole and into the fat layer... I dunno, i don't think this has occurred for me.
Yea I've heard both ways of doing it from friends but never seen adverse affects from either technique. thx for the response.
 
Bigchourico

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Ok I've most often read that massaging the site is beneficial as it helps to disperse the oil... I am not 100% sure, but I usually let the muscle go limp and then kind of pound on it from different angles. Mooch brought up the point that massaging may get some oil up through the injection hole and into the fat layer... I dunno, i don't think this has occurred for me.
I don't know if this is Placebo but it seems to me that massaginig the injection site right after the injection seems to ease the soreness afterwards.IMO
 

Liftingstud

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what about warming up the oil before you inject... such as when you use amples? Figured I would bring this up and see what others thought.

First of the yr here i come test e!!!
 
UnrealMachine

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what about warming up the oil before you inject... such as when you use amples? Figured I would bring this up and see what others thought.

First of the yr here i come test e!!!
ampules. I think warming it up is mostly to decrease the viscosity and make the oil easier to push... I have never tried this and it shouldn't be necessary unless your gear is UG and real thick. I suppose it could help ease the pain but probably not by much.
 
Trauma1

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I've heard not to massage the area after injecting. Is there really any evidence to support massaging/not massaging the site post injection?
The most important factor here with administering an intramuscular injection is making sure that you're delivering the oil into the muscle, and that it doesn't leak back into subcutaneous tissue. This is where localized irritation and issues can begin to manifest. This is why a specific technique known as the "Z-Track" is vital.


Watch this video demonstration:

http://www.snjourney.com/ClinicalInfo/Proced/Ztrack.htm


Massaging after an injection is fine, but keep it brief and don't be overly aggressive with it. It will help to enhance dispersal of the oil; if you massage too hard though you risk damaging tissue and allowing the oil to escape from the muscle belly.

-John
 

boggs67ss

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Excellent thread unreal, pretty much what you need to know if someone is considering AAS. Should definetly be a sticky, reps.
 
n8te

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The most important factor here with administering an intramuscular injection is making sure that you're delivering the oil into the muscle, and that it doesn't leak back into subcutaneous tissue. This is where localized irritation and issues can begin to manifest. This is why a specific technique known as the "Z-Track" is vital.


Watch this video demonstration:

http://www.snjourney.com/ClinicalInfo/Proced/Ztrack.htm


Massaging after an injection is fine, but keep it brief and don't be overly aggressive with it. It will help to enhance dispersal of the oil; if you massage too hard though you risk damaging tissue and allowing the oil to escape from the muscle belly.

-John
Yea I remember looking at this method before. Thanks for your input Trauma. You're in the medical field right?
 
Trauma1

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Yea I remember looking at this method before. Thanks for your input Trauma. You're in the medical field right?
Yes sir; Emergency Room RN of about 10 years. I'm actually back in school now though to pursue my ARNP (Advanced Registered Nurse Practitoner).

-John
 

nelson32

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so, this is where the people with the knowledge are? Never done forums before, so I hope this isn't totally gay to barge in like this.

Could I please get some quick feedback on my post entitled "what to do with some tren 60?" in the anabolics section.
 
n8te

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Yes sir; Emergency Room RN of about 10 years. I'm actually back in school now though to pursue my ARNP (Advanced Registered Nurse Practitoner).

-John
Awesome, good luck with it. I'm still trying to get a job in the health field w/ my degree, no one around here is hiring at the moment:/
 
gamer2be08

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Been waiting for you to post this Unreal! 2 needle injecting thumbs up! ;)
 
UnrealMachine

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lol i'm not making one... You guys have probably gotten IM shots before, I remember as a kid getting shots in my delt, so you've probably seen it anyway. Stick the needle in, pull back on the plunger for a split second, then push it down.

Basically you're trying to get the oil from point A to point B, injecting is really not that scary at all, the needles are small and if you hit the right spots you'll hardly feel anything.

I've mentioned it before but I couldn't wait for my first inject and had no hesitation and I usually look forward to them. From my experience it's really hard to mess something up.

My absolute worst case scenario is when I injected my quad right where a vein was near the surface and when I took the needle out there was tons of blood, and later it seemed like some blood got under the skin and pushed the skin out a little, but it didn't hurt and didn't cause any problems.

The human body is an amazing thing. Don't let yourself get too psyched out about it. I had read tons and tons about steroids before I injected anything so by the time i had to inject I knew better technique than (IMO) the majority of them so i thought if a bunch of dumbass juicemonkeys can do it, i can sure do it. Have some confidence! i think it's fun...
I get to inject tomorrow! :)
 
TheDarkHalf

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I think we need a portion of the website dedicated to your posts......first the guide to superdrol and now this....great stuff man. I virtually had no education about injectables...thanks man keep these guides coming!
 
UnrealMachine

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what other guides would you like to see? I've chosen the stuff that i'm most familiar with because I can basically write them all off the top of my head. PCT and gyno are two things i'd like to do but honestly they're too complicated for me to tackle. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on but i don't know enough of the biochem and hormone interactions to write a guide that sounds proper.

I can write anything about PH and Steroid profiles based on the anecdotal evidence i've seen + my experience, putting together cycles, bridging and lots of theory...

Seriously though sometimes I look at people posting up their cycles and i feel more inclined to write a guide to frigging diet and training as that would help more people out but that wouldn't belong in this section. Maybe i could call it "Unreal's Guide to Diet and Training on Cycle"
I get real pissed off (no offense all small & skinny dudes) when people with very undeveloped stats and poor knowledge of diet and training want to do steroids... I know it is not my role to enforce standards but dammit, i want to. Cycling is frigging stupid if you are eating 3 meals a day, not drinking enough water, not getting enough sleep, hitting the gym 3-4x a week and missing workouts... Steroids are not for your average dumbass gym-goer, they're for dedicated individuals who have put time in and maxed out their other variables, or at least that's my elitist view.

I always knew that I started steroids way way too soon... but in a little over 2 years natural training i added about 50 pounds of LEAN bodymass to my frame and now when I look in people's threads it's common to see people who haven't added nearly that much mass total, let alone lean mass... I was just posting in that guy's SUS thread and he was 6'1 169 pounds and started cycling and couldn't even tell if the steroid was working because he didn't know **** about how his body responded to changes in calorie intake.
 
nosnmiveins

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Steroids are not for your average dumbass gym-goer, they're for dedicated individuals who have put time in and maxed out their other variables, or at least that's my elitist view.
couldnt have said it better myself!
 
TheDarkHalf

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what other guides would you like to see? I've chosen the stuff that i'm most familiar with because I can basically write them all off the top of my head. PCT and gyno are two things i'd like to do but honestly they're too complicated for me to tackle. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on but i don't know enough of the biochem and hormone interactions to write a guide that sounds proper.

I can write anything about PH and Steroid profiles based on the anecdotal evidence i've seen + my experience, putting together cycles, bridging and lots of theory...

Seriously though sometimes I look at people posting up their cycles and i feel more inclined to write a guide to frigging diet and training as that would help more people out but that wouldn't belong in this section. Maybe i could call it "Unreal's Guide to Diet and Training on Cycle"
I get real pissed off (no offense all small & skinny dudes) when people with very undeveloped stats and poor knowledge of diet and training want to do steroids... I know it is not my role to enforce standards but dammit, i want to. Cycling is frigging stupid if you are eating 3 meals a day, not drinking enough water, not getting enough sleep, hitting the gym 3-4x a week and missing workouts... Steroids are not for your average dumbass gym-goer, they're for dedicated individuals who have put time in and maxed out their other variables, or at least that's my elitist view.

I always knew that I started steroids way way too soon... but in a little over 2 years natural training i added about 50 pounds of LEAN bodymass to my frame and now when I look in people's threads it's common to see people who haven't added nearly that much mass total, let alone lean mass... I was just posting in that guy's SUS thread and he was 6'1 169 pounds and started cycling and couldn't even tell if the steroid was working because he didn't know **** about how his body responded to changes in calorie intake.
I wouldn't mind seeing a guide for p-plex or tren....maybe just write guides for the PHs that would be considered to be fairly harsh. I feel like Epi and Hdrol are mild enough and are very common cycles that your beginner should be able to search the forum and find what they need to.

Maybe you could try including diet and training in the guide for that particular PH/AAS. Different compounds always yield different results and some are better bulkers/cutters, etc. So maybe that's something you can include/update in your guides.

I totally agree with people going on PH/AAS wayyy to early. I just did my first PH a few months ago...and i've been training for about 7 years. You'll always see guys that are not even close to maxing out there stats or are way too young to be even thinking about it. I think AM just needs to make you a mod so you can B1tch smack people in the face....oh wait you do that already hahhaha
 
UnrealMachine

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I wouldn't mind seeing a guide for p-plex or tren....maybe just write guides for the PHs that would be considered to be fairly harsh. I feel like Epi and Hdrol are mild enough and are very common cycles that your beginner should be able to search the forum and find what they need to.

Maybe you could try including diet and training in the guide for that particular PH/AAS. Different compounds always yield different results and some are better bulkers/cutters, etc. So maybe that's something you can include/update in your guides.

I totally agree with people going on PH/AAS wayyy to early. I just did my first PH a few months ago...and i've been training for about 7 years. You'll always see guys that are not even close to maxing out there stats or are way too young to be even thinking about it. I think AM just needs to make you a mod so you can B1tch smack people in the face....oh wait you do that already hahhaha
I've thought about other PH guides, see Phera is almost too simple because the sides are so mild. Tren is almost too complicated because some people get major gyno and/or libido problems and some people don't and fixing those problems requires a bunch of ancillaries and they're all hit or miss (more likely to miss lol). You are right with Epi and Halodrol, generally mild enough that a guide isn't very necessary.

RE: diet and training with the different prohormones, i really don't think it should differ based on the PH you're running but it should differ based on the cycle, the different steroids are tools used to achieve a very specific goal. Like, I have used Superdrol to bulk, and to recomp, and it was incredibly effective in both situations, even though my diet and training were way different. I might even say it was more effective when i did my recomp, because gains on SD are pretty temporary, but if you can use its insane anti-catabolism to shed as much BF as you can in 3-4 weeks, there's no reason for the fat to hop back on when you stop the SD. But obviously i wouldn't tell people to run SD while doing cardio 10 times a week and eating <150g of carbs a day like I was doing.

My thinking is that the "bulking" and "cutting" titles we give the steroids aren't really accurate and that the diet and training will really determine everything. I've been both lean and badly bloated on both SD (dry) and PP (wet)... I really think it's more diet-dependent than steroid-dependent.
Well, for myself anyway.
 
TheDarkHalf

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I've thought about other PH guides, see Phera is almost too simple because the sides are so mild. Tren is almost too complicated because some people get major gyno and/or libido problems and some people don't and fixing those problems requires a bunch of ancillaries and they're all hit or miss (more likely to miss lol). You are right with Epi and Halodrol, generally mild enough that a guide isn't very necessary.

Word.

RE: diet and training with the different prohormones, i really don't think it should differ based on the PH you're running but it should differ based on the cycle, the different steroids are tools used to achieve a very specific goal. Like, I have used Superdrol to bulk, and to recomp, and it was incredibly effective in both situations, even though my diet and training were way different. I might even say it was more effective when i did my recomp, because gains on SD are pretty temporary, but if you can use its insane anti-catabolism to shed as much BF as you can in 3-4 weeks, there's no reason for the fat to hop back on when you stop the SD. But obviously i wouldn't tell people to run SD while doing cardio 10 times a week and eating <150g of carbs a day like I was doing.

My thinking is that the "bulking" and "cutting" titles we give the steroids aren't really accurate and that the diet and training will really determine everything. I've been both lean and badly bloated on both SD (dry) and PP (wet)... I really think it's more diet-dependent than steroid-dependent.
Well, for myself anyway.
Interesting thought and one that I certainly agree with. I'm an endo so when I eat a surplus I put on muscle and fat...and when I diet down I keep my muscle but it's a bitch to lose that fat (even when bulking I keep my carbs at 150-200g per day, i feel like carbs are responsible for making me a fat a$$). At the end of the day...it's strictly a numbers game...(and whether or not you are on cycle :firedevil:)
 
Tomahawk88

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i'm sure there are plenty of videos on how to inject steroids on youtube
There r plenty of videos on how to inject on youtube. There is so much crazy stuff on youtube it isnt even funny.

Plus Trauma posted a link how to Z-track inject.
 

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What can you say about the need of arimidex on cycle? Is it necessary for 500mg a week test E? Are their substitutes for it? Arimidex is very expensive.
 

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What can you say about the need of arimidex on cycle? Is it necessary for 500mg a week test E? Are their substitutes for it? Arimidex is very expensive.
i think arimidex is one of the cheaper? i've seen it for 55 to get you 30mL of 1mg/mL. thats enough to low dose the arimidex on cycle and still have half for pct.
 
UnrealMachine

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What can you say about the need of arimidex on cycle? Is it necessary for 500mg a week test E? Are their substitutes for it? Arimidex is very expensive.
some people need it more than others, in general you should always have arimidex or at the very least some kind of AI on hand. There's lots of ways to control estrogen, for a while nolva taken during the whole cycle was pretty standard. I have chosen to use a stronger AI, letrozole, but only take a few drops of it everyday and that has been working fine for me, although I wouldn't recommend letro for noobs because it takes a while to figure out which dose you need... it's a MUCH stronger AI than arimidex

And adex is not expensive at all and certainly not "very expensive"... That would be a problem with your source.
 

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Another great article by UnrealMachine... thanks, repped and definitely sticky...

I am looking forward to read your article about "Unreal Guide Diet and Training while on Cycle"...
 

Ju1cedUp

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Another great article by UnrealMachine... thanks, repped and definitely sticky...

I am looking forward to read your article about "Unreal Guide Diet and Training while on Cycle"...
ah yes, the training section x2!
everyone has their own thing, i wanna know what works best.
 
dumbhick3

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Granted I am just a bookworm (the right books, LOL) and not an injectable AAS user (though I have contemplated it), but aside from just watching a video of how to inject on utube, I would probably add a few extra lines to the injection technique section of the guide. Great job BTW Unreal (reps to ya). I am sure that you're injection technique is finely honed. I thought I would just add the following bits FWIW for others' edification. I don't know if this is considered thread-jacking; I don't see how and what follows is hardly a guide (but I do have to say the following info is for hypothetical edutainment only):

-With suspensions, very occasionally and depending on the needle gauge, a crystal of say winstrol susp will get stuck in the injecting needle and clog it, preventing part or all of liquid from getting from point A to point B. One of my relative's buddies had this happen to him and he tried re-injected in other areas 4 times before he gave up, LOL. And I have read about this in books and online. I can't say how often it happens or what causes it if a certain needle gauge works fine most of the time, but it does happen sometiems.

The solution here seems to be to ideally throw out the whole syringe and needle and start fresh. Some won't do this, so alternatively, the injecting needle could be swapped out. But the more handling you do of the gear/syringe, the more you risk unsterilizing your gear/syringe and potentially getting an abcess.

-Something else to consider is where you inject-not on your body but in your house/apt. Don't do it in the bathroom after you take a massive $hit and haven't cleaned the bathroom in a month for instance. You need a nice, clean work area and preferably even a clean house/apt that isn't filled with airborne bacteria and mold. Steroid injections seem to be surprisingly forgiving, considering that so many people do them in so many stupid ways. Like this one guy who used to inject through his d@mn pants into his glutes.

-Abcesses; they come in sterile and unsterile varieties. Just google them and read up. If the swelling at the injection site gets painful, warm, etc or doesn't go away like a normal injection (based on your experience), then you can try using an ice pack to reduce the swelling and see if it goes away (this would be a day or two later, not right after injection of course). If it doesn't go away and/or gets worse a few days post-injection, it's usually time to go to the hospital and have it drained. Don't try to drain it yourself with repeated needle stabs like Greg Valentino-you'll end up in the hospital anyway and in worse shape possibly. I don't think abcesses are that common, but they obviously do happen and can be very serious. Aside from unsterile injecting techniques, sometimes even a piece of plunger rubber can make it's way through the needle and into the muscle (though I have even heard of the latter resolving and not requiring medical follow up).

-I think this is implicit in Unreal's fantastic guide (#2 now-your Sdrol guide convinced me not to take my Sdrol or Dimemthazine!). Try not to add in any unnecessary steps or other stupid behaviors between any of the steps in Unreal's guide. By this I mean, don't set the syringe with injecting needle attached and exposed down on the kitchen table while you pull your pants down (don't set it down period in fact). If the injecting needle touches anything before it hits your skin, then it is no longer sterile and should not be used. Your injection technique from bottle to muscle should be as seamless as possible, just like at the doctor's office (as Unreal mentioned in effect).

-Also, inject the needle perpendicular to the surface of injection.

-You can probably garner this from online videos, but the injection speed (needle into skin and muscle; not plunger speed-liquid into muscle-that is easier-steadily push the plunger down) should be somewhat forceful (doctor's office again). A slow injection speed will hurt more and possibly result in more local scarring (an issue if you plan to re-inject there later). The old saying of injecting with the speed that you would toss a dart seems appropriate (not like on ESPN2 though...that's just crazy.)

-Consider buying a sharps container and figuring out what to do with it when it gets full. "Will someone pleeease think of the kids" (and Otto the garbage man)? LOL-but true.

-And for the knuckleheads, clean your hands before you get started.
-----------------
And some additional questions/items to address:

-Spot injections versus glute and quad injects

-Different needle gauges and lengths for different spots

-Shorter duration of steroid effect due to smaller muscle group used

-Maybe something special on quads since they have a few more blood vessels than the glutes and delts as your bloody story verified)

-Injection site rotation; how often can you inject the same muscle, especially when using and ED or EOD preparation?

-Do you think that a 1" pin is really long enough for most people to do a glute injection? For a very muscular and lean person, it seems like it would be fine (cough...Unreal), but for others, it may not get deep enough into the muscle (people with some fat on their @$$). Just my unproven opinion though.

Good job on the Guide and the timing is good as you pointed out. I would like to see "Unreals On cycle diet guide and post cycle diet good and intracycle-lose the bulking flab but not the muscle-diet guide", maybe all rolled into one nice package. Here is hoping:)!
 
UnrealMachine

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Ok good points I think ill amend it with an extra section on injection theory as well as some emphasis on sterility. I was very vague for the most part because people should still learn most things on their own but there's a lot of stuff I missed that I should probably go over.
 

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I was looking at sites where you purchase syringes and needles and a lot of them sell the syringes with the needles in them, so when you say you use one needle to draw out of the vial/container and a different one to inject, how do you transfer the test oil from the drawing syringe/needle to the injecting syringe/needle? Or is it standard that you can always just pull the needle out of the syringe and replace it with another? Will an 18-20g needle always fit into the same syringe that came with a 23-25g needle? And if I have the choice which is less painful a 23 or 25g needle? Any downsides to picking the less painful one?
 
UnrealMachine

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the needles come off the syringes with a twist and pull and different needle gauges will all fit the same syringes.

i don't know which is less painful, pain isn't the biggest concern here... i prefer 23g because you can get the oil out faster which is nice especially when you're holding the syringe awkwardly with one hand and the longer it's in, the more it gets moved around inside you
 
supra888

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Another great thread UM !!!! Reps bro,

Perhaps a typical first cycle would not be out-of-place on this thread ? Maybe a 10 week Test-E at 500mg kick started with 25mg Dbol for first 4 weeks...

With reference to Sides,Gains,AI's,HCG and the use of Nolvadex and or clomid during PCT ?

Just an idea....
 

liquidanimal

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Excellent post bro, I am glad you touched on the sustanon totally agree about inj frequency EOD protocol for sust is ridiculous.
 
UnrealMachine

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Another great thread UM !!!! Reps bro,

Perhaps a typical first cycle would not be out-of-place on this thread ? Maybe a 10 week Test-E at 500mg kick started with 25mg Dbol for first 4 weeks...

With reference to Sides,Gains,AI's,HCG and the use of Nolvadex and or clomid during PCT ?

Just an idea....
sides and gains are going to vary so much person to person, AI dose varies person to person, I really don't think HCG is necessary for a first cycle, probably overcomplicates it unnecessarily... if you can't handle the shutdown from a typical test cycle you probably shouldn't even be doing it. Nolva and clomid becomes a PCT discussion which again gets complicated, I'd love to recommend clomid to everyone but then some people take 50mg and get crazy emotional side effects.

I would like to tell people exactly what to do but there's no "one cycle fits all" there's way too much variation. I give a lot of advice on the forum and it doesn't always work out... Like i was saying once i recommended clomid and the guy had a really bad response to it and... think he had to order up some nolva.
You can't rely on what I recommend 100% so I feel better leaving the details out to the people to decide. I don't like telling people to take X amount of arimidex... I say to start low and then figure it out for yourself. Some stuff you really just need to learn on their own. The cycles I run are not normal and that's a product of learning my body through a lot of trial and error.

So i'd love to be more exact with my "first cycle" section but I really don't think it would help. And gains is utterly unpredicable. Some people will explode on 400mg of test and a crappy diet and some people will take 3 times that and hardly notice anything like myself.
 

jbroski

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Excellent guide. I'll be using this for my 1st Test E cycle
 

illgixxer

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Another question...Should you not lift a muscle that you recently injected? Like if I inject my quads should I not do squats or lift any legs for a few days? And I have been doing a good bit of reading, it seems some people just switch off injecting between their left and right quads and never inject anywhere else, if you inject twice per week is this ok or is it still necessary to cycle through more injection points?
 

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