HP recomp with Havoc

[heavypieces]

I'm finishing up my first week.

Havoc
30/30/40/40-50

AI cycle support
2 scoops per day

Eating 2200-2500 calories per day

protein/cho/fat 50/30/20

Lifting 3 days on 1 day off
back-bicep/chest-tricep/legs-shoulder
HIIT and abs ever other day

PCT
Toremifene 120&90/60/60/30
Test booster??

other supplements
isopure zero calorie whey
multivitamin
fish oil

The goal is recomp. I've been cutting for 2 months and lost over 30 lbs of fat. You can see some pics on my profile page.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[heavypieces]

43 yrs
6'4"
250 lbs

 

[heavypieces]

Sorry for the lag. I have a cold and I am fighting through it. I weighed in at 258 this morning. That's up 8 lbs in one week on approx. 2400 calories per day. This stuff is crazy. Today was a day off after legs yesterday. I put on my size 38 Levi's this morning--this was one of my medium range goals and I am almost there. Still just a little tight. So I don't think I am gaining too much fat on this cycle. Arms are looking bigger. Chest is bigger. Legs for sure look bigger. I'm on 30 mg per day and considering bumping to 40 after the cold. My research says 40 mg is the sweet spot for most folks on Havoc.

 

[heavypieces]

Day 11

Feeling better today. Still at 30 mg and calories at 2400 or so.

Chest and Tri

db press 75x5x4, 75x3
pec deck 85x10x4 concentrating on good negatives
low cable press 60x10x4
cable cross over 20x10, 30x10, 40x10, 50x10

skull crushers
50x10, 60x10, 70x10, 80x6
cable pull down
50x10, 60x10, 70x6, 70x4
cable overhead extension (rope)
50x10x4

Felt strong and pumped today!!! I have the strong feeling of being on and the king of the gym. One guy commented in the locker room that my chest is looking much more defined and I seem to be bulking up a bit. I'm going to cycle my carbs back down just above ketosis. I have some keto strips so let's find out where that is.

meals

dropping my carbs as low as I can without going into ketosis.

breakfast 315 cal
oatmeal
isopure
10 mg Havoc
ai cycle support

preworkout
isopure 200 cal

workout

lunch 508 cal
isopure
whole wheat bagel
peanut butter
10 mg havoc

dinner 1275 cal
steak
lobster
asparagus
mushrooms
10 mg havoc

evening snack 210 cal
isopure drink
AI cycle support

2412 calories

fat 88 g
cho 102 g
protein 306 g

 

[sanchezgreg18]

ur able to get into keto with that many carbs?

 

[heavypieces]

ur able to get into keto with that many carbs?

I want to avoid ketosis so I am dropping calories to just above carbohydrate deprivation. I bought some Ketostix at the local pharmacy and I will test until I find my sweet spot.

HP

 

[sanchezgreg18]

oh ok i c

 

[heavypieces]

I don't want to throw my hat in the ring for a full debate on diets that include ultra low carbs but I will say from what I have read ketosis is to be avoided due to a few reasons.

1. mental processes suffer
2. dehydration
3. body metabolizes protein
4. need carbs to fuel workout

So for now I will try to lower carbs and stay out of ketosis while I am on cycle. I may try this while I'm on a serious cut.

HP

 

[heavypieces]

Day 14

up another 2 lbs today. +10

Day 3 at 40 mg.

Libdo is down a bit. No other sides to note.

back and biceps today.

wide grip lat pull down
130x10x4
close grip rows
120x10x3, 150x10
straight leg deadlift machine
60x10x4
overhead rows
130x10x3, 150x10

db curls
30x10x4
wrist curls
20x10, 40x10x3
reverse EZbar curls
40x10x4
EZbar curls
65x10x4
cable preacher curls
45x10x3, 55x10

2245 calories

fat 53 g
cho 145 g
protein 298 g

I still have a cold and a nasty cough. To top it off the other day I tore my hamstring doing squats. It's not too bad but I need to heal up.

 

[GeekPoop]

I dont think itll be hard to avoid ketosis, if you eat more then 40-50g of carbs a day you'll be fine. Hell, your serving of oatmeal pretty much prevents ketosis

 

[heavypieces]

I dont think itll be hard to avoid ketosis, if you eat more then 40-50g of carbs a day you'll be fine. Hell, your serving of oatmeal pretty much prevents ketosis

Thanks. I have no feel for this so any feedback is appreciated.

HP

 

[GeekPoop]

Thanks. I have no feel for this so any feedback is appreciated.

HP

Ya to get into ketosis its gotta be low low carbs liek 40-50g tops and it takes your body like 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis. Your urine will smelll uh... different if youre not sure.

you can also get these strips you pee on to check the ketone levels in your body. prolly more info than what you needed but now ya know

 

[NYCDiesel]

whats up HP, I just want to ask you did you notice a noticeable difference between 20mg of epi and say 30 or 40mg ? I want to up my dosage but idk if I should.

I'm doing the same as you but running test e too, good look with your recomp man.

 

[heavypieces]

whats up HP, I just want to ask you did you notice a noticeable difference between 20mg of epi and say 30 or 40mg ? I want to up my dosage but idk if I should.

I'm doing the same as you but running test e too, good look with your recomp man.

Thanks! Since I started at 250 lbs my starting dose was 30 mg and held that constant for 1.5 weeks then I upped the dose to 40 mg. I haven't really noticed any difference except my libido is down a little but I have a cold and I'm usually not all that randy when I'm coughing up a lung. Strength is way up and my arms are getting dense. My chest is more defined and thicker my shoulders seem more defined. I've noticed a little bit of fat came back but it's mimimal since my waist size seems to be holding. So far I think Havoc is a great choice for my recomp. I'm +10 lbs and I feel harder.

 

[heavypieces]

I want to add that normally I have a very hot temper and this was the one thing that had me really worried. I just can't afford to lose my temper. So far no issues at 40 mg.

 

[heavypieces]

whats up HP, I just want to ask you did you notice a noticeable difference between 20mg of epi and say 30 or 40mg ? I want to up my dosage but idk if I should.

I'm doing the same as you but running test e too, good look with your recomp man.

You are a big guy and efficacy (and toxicity) is normally related to (mg compound)/(kg of human). Most of the logs I see guys are between 180-220 lbs and they are taking 30 mg. I think at 260 we need more compound for the same result. That's why I chose to start 30 mg and move up from there.

 

[heavypieces]

starting week 4

Progress pic. Started Havoc Nov 5. Nov. 23 in my third week of my Havoc cycle.

 

[heavypieces]

I have a very dark bruise on my inner thigh that's about the size of a baseball. I wonder if it is related to Havoc or if it is due to my pulled hamstring from about a week ago. Anyone?

 

[NYCDiesel]

You are a big guy and efficacy (and toxicity) is normally related to (mg compound)/(kg of human). Most of the logs I see guys are between 180-220 lbs and they are taking 30 mg. I think at 260 we need more compound for the same result. That's why I chose to start 30 mg and move up from there.

Yea maybe i should have done something similar because the first week i didnt feel much but now im on 30mg daily and now i definitely feel it more so. Im kind of interested in your comment about putting some fat back on.....do you think it was the epi or was it because you changed your diet to bulking? I really wanna shred as much fat as possible and gain 5 - 10lbm. Good luck my man its not a easy road for us bigger guys but definitely worth more in the end.

 

[heavypieces]

Yea maybe i should have done something similar because the first week i didnt feel much but now im on 30mg daily and now i definitely feel it more so. Im kind of interested in your comment about putting some fat back on.....do you think it was the epi or was it because you changed your diet to bulking? I really wanna shred as much fat as possible and gain 5 - 10lbm. Good luck my man its not a easy road for us bigger guys but definitely worth more in the end.

I can't answer that. It seems like I put a little fat on and I have been logging my diet and keeping it around 2500 cal per day. So I think it is some bloat due to the epi. I would not recommend going above 30 mg until you see the whole cycle through. I'm concerned that this bruise is due to dosing too high.

 

[booya123]

i would bet my pay check that the bruise isnt from the havoc. I never heard of anyone getting a random bruise from any ph. Im no doctor but thats my opinion.

 

[silverSurfer]

Great work on your progress! :thumbsup:

 

[heavypieces]

i would bet my pay check that the bruise isnt from the havoc. I never heard of anyone getting a random bruise from any ph. Im no doctor but thats my opinion.

Thanks. I want to make sure that it's not an issue with others.

 

[heavypieces]

Great work on your progress! :thumbsup:

Thanks!

 

[jaydollars]

Your progress pics look great, keep up the dieting bro, it takes a while but you will meet your goals if you persist

 

[heavypieces]

i've decided to push on with the havoc cycle.

 

[CopyCat]

Just wanted to reassure you, the bruise is most likely from the pulled hamstring or some other trauma like that and not from dosing havoc.

 

[heavypieces]

Just wanted to reassure you, the bruise is most likely from the pulled hamstring or some other trauma like that and not from dosing havoc.

I appreciate the feedback. I'm pushing forward. I have 8 more days of compound onboard @ 40 mg/day then PCT.

 

[heavypieces]

My weight is holding but size is up. I measured my bicep last night and it looks like I increased about 1/2".

Back and Biceps today.

overhead rows
100x10, 130x10, 150x10, 160x10
lat pull down
120x10, 140x10, 150x10x2
deadlift machine
60x10, 80x10, 100x10, 120x10
low rows
120x10, 130x10, 150x10x2

EZ bar curls
65x10, 85x10x3
decline db curls
20x10, 25x10, 30x10, 35x10
standing single cable curls
20x10, 30x10x3
preacher curls two arm cable
45x10, 55x10, 65x10, 75x10

Felt a great pump in the gym.

Sides are starting to show up. I really have a tough time sleeping the whole night. Back pumps are pretty regular even with 6 g of taurine a day. Libido is down. BP is up about 10 points.

To tell you the truth I am ready to start another cut but I'm not sure about the timing. Do I cut during PCT or after. What's the most effective.

 

[TBULL]

Hey HP, did you have any idea what your BF % was when you started? And now?

 

[heavypieces]

Hey HP, did you have any idea what your BF % was when you started? And now?

I have no idea. I started to look for a reliable method to measure BF and couldn't come up with a good cheap method. So I just started to take pictures to follow my progress thinking this is really the only way to monitor my progress.

 

[heavypieces]

weighed in at 255 this morning.

 

[nomoredex]

hmm how are you going to lose the rest of your body fat after the cycle ?
very good progress so far, id say take your wife to the beach this summer.

 

[heavypieces]

hmm how are you going to lose the rest of your body fat after the cycle ?
very good progress so far, id say take your wife to the beach this summer.

I started PCT yesterday. SERM, Creatine and calorie restriction. I'm keeping it below 2100 calories and keeping protein at 1 g per lean body mass lb and adding HIIT to my workout routine. Of course I am hitting the weights like a madman.

I will adjust total calories and cycle carbs as I go trying to lose about 2 lbs a week. Time to get back on the cut. Once the cut stalls again I will go back on a bulk. Probably will have to do it without Havoc but that's ok.

HP

 

[heavypieces]

PCT is going smooth. I'm running a cut diet and BF is going down again. I feel like I am retaining muscle that I gained too.

 

[NYCDiesel]

PCT is going smooth. I'm running a cut diet and BF is going down again. I feel like I am retaining muscle that I gained too.

Thats crucial man, good for you...........how is your strength comparatively ? 2100 Cals huh, damn maybe I should do some **** like that, I been staying around 25-27 but haven't been seeing the fat loss I want.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Your progress is very good from the pictures. If i could give any advice it would be, first of all, to move from the breakfast/lunch/dinner thing and start doing 5-6 small meals throughout the day, this is probably even more beneficial for cutting than for bulking. Beyond that, I think you would benefit more from bigger, heavier freeweight exercises than the lower weight, more machine-based ones I am seeing.

Some people would argue with me and your results are good so don't get me wrong here but i believe that weightlifting gains are really ALLL about how much weight you are lifting.

 

[heavypieces]

Your progress is very good from the pictures. If i could give any advice it would be, first of all, to move from the breakfast/lunch/dinner thing and start doing 5-6 small meals throughout the day, this is probably even more beneficial for cutting than for bulking. Beyond that, I think you would benefit more from bigger, heavier freeweight exercises than the lower weight, more machine-based ones I am seeing.

Some people would argue with me and your results are good so don't get me wrong here but i believe that weightlifting gains are really ALLL about how much weight you are lifting.

Thanks for the feedback. It's in the works, in fact I increase how much I lift a little bit every time I work out. Also I try to make sure I include the big three at least once per week (I hit each body part twice a week). That's one heavy day and one lighter day.

PCT is going well. Toremifene has very few sides but I am experiencing some moods and I feel a little depressed. Libido is a little bit down. My gains are still there.

I've been dosing toremifene 60 mg per day, so I did 3 days at 120 mg and dropped to 60mg/day since.

 

[heavypieces]

Thats crucial man, good for you...........how is your strength comparatively ? 2100 Cals huh, damn maybe I should do some **** like that, I been staying around 25-27 but haven't been seeing the fat loss I want.

I'm at 1900 per day and seeing fatloss. Strength is good but cutting the fat is more important for me now. I will try to keep as much muscle as possible but I need to cut some fat.

 

[jaydollars]

Hmm very impressive gains on that amount of cals, I'm planning on an epi recomp and looks I'm going to have to really think about my daily intake...is there a general rule for recomp/cuttiing on a ph for your total amount of cals, how did you come up with yours?

 

[heavypieces]

Thats crucial man, good for you...........how is your strength comparatively ? 2100 Cals huh, damn maybe I should do some **** like that, I been staying around 25-27 but haven't been seeing the fat loss I want.

It depends on how much BF you have and your metabolism. Lower total calories until you start losing BF.

 

[NYCDiesel]

How's PCT going my man ? I know you know about the smiles, us taller guys always get em I'm about to be done with my Epi soon, only a couple days left, what are your plans for your next cycle ? `

 

[heavypieces]

How's PCT going my man ? I know you know about the smiles, us taller guys always get em I'm about to be done with my Epi soon, only a couple days left, what are your plans for your next cycle ? `

got 2 more bottles of epi, 2 dimethazine and one trenavol. Next cycle will be in March. Hopefully BF will be really low by then so I can really bulk.

As far as PCT I feel fine. Libido is still a little low but strength and muscle is still there. I'm looking more cut now...and the girls are smiling. I can't wait until summer!!

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

got 2 more bottles of epi, 2 dimethazine and one trenavol. Next cycle will be in March. Hopefully BF will be really low by then so I can really bulk.

As far as PCT I feel fine. Libido is still a little low but strength and muscle is still there. I'm looking more cut now...and the girls are smiling. I can't wait until summer!!

Impressive changes on the cycle man! Hope to see you post some updated pics. I am on Day 4 of EFX (Havoc Clone) and next week will be adding Furaguno to the mix which should make it an even better cutter. I am also doing low carb Sun - Fri so I am hoping for similar changes.

 

[heavypieces]

Impressive changes on the cycle man! Hope to see you post some updated pics. I am on Day 4 of EFX (Havoc Clone) and next week will be adding Furaguno to the mix which should make it an even better cutter. I am also doing low carb Sun - Fri so I am hoping for similar changes.

Thanks bro. Good luck with the cycle.