Sus/deca

[vector18]

I've decided to try out a cycle with shots, not caps, of Sus and deca. Before I start it, any advice or alternate suggestions before I make the purchase? The guy getting
it for me suggests clomid for a pct. This is my first cycle
with shots after doing one cycle with The ONE a few months
ago. I am planning on doing them for 5 weeks at 2x a week.
Let me know what ya think, thanks!

 

[UnrealMachine]

You should learn what you're doing before you start jabbing yourself... those compounds take 4 weeks just to kick in so a 5 week cycle is stupid.

*If you think you can buy 1 vial of test and make a cycle out of it, think again

 

[vector18]

I appreciate your response. Keep in mind this is my first real cycle
and I want it to be somewhat mild. I just want to see how my
body reacts to it and gain some strength and lean out alittle. I'm not
looking for huge gains for now. This is just going to be sort of a test
cycle to see how I react, than I think I could move onto something
stronger closer to the summer. Would you suggest something different
that kicks in alittle faster and is not as harsh?

 

[lennoxchi]

I appreciate your response. Keep in mind this is my first real cycle
and I want it to be somewhat mild. I just want to see how my
body reacts to it and gain some strength and lean out alittle. I'm not
looking for huge gains for now. This is just going to be sort of a test
cycle to see how I react, than I think I could move onto something
stronger closer to the summer. Would you suggest something different
that kicks in alittle faster and is not as harsh?

that cycle is a complete waste of time.

sus for 12 weeks/500mgs a week. save the deca for another cycle, see how you react to test first. what are you going to do about the possible estro related sides while on? what does you PCT exactly look like? how is your diet going to be while "on"? these are just a few of the questions you need to answer before doing anything. it seems like you are thinking this is going to be like a ph/ps cycle and the sides are the same. to some degree that's true but there's alot more to it than that.

 

[nosnmiveins]

like others have said, 5 weeks with longer esters is just a complete waste of a cycle.

stop being a pu$$y, there is NO tip-toeing into AAS. so if ur going to run, run it correctly

 

[neverstop]

do it right or don't do it. you should read everything you can on here for at least a few months before moving forward. you clearly have a lot to learn and this is an amazing resource here.

 

[Hamma Head]

Heres what my first cycle looked like. test 400mg/wk for 10 weeks, deca 200mg /wk for 10 weeks. d bol @30mg/ed for 4 weeks split up the doses. Have nolva and clomid on hand. Use the nolva only if your nips start to get sensitive otherwise it will hinder gains. The clomid is for pct(post cycle therapy) Start it around 4 weeks after your last shot, this is when the long acting esters of the test and deca are out of your system. The clomid is to start your nutz up again and start to produce test again to avoid depression. Dont forget your pins. This is a conservative cycle which should yeild great results. But like the others said you should do a little more research to get everything straight. Good luck

 

[Liftingstud]

First cycle run test e or c at 500mg/wk with dose split on mon and thur. If you want u can kick start with an oral like dbol or phera for the first 5 wks. This is what u need for a first inj cycle. Get 2 10ml bottles run for 10 wks and start pct 2 wks after last inj. Pretty simple. I am actually going to start some test e kicked off with phera and the above is what I am doing. After that u can look to adding other compounds. Plus I hear sus needs to be inj eod to take advantage of the shorter esters anway.

Do some research. Then jump in.

 

[UnrealMachine]

sust doesn't really need eod injections, yes that'll take advantage of the short ester prop, but sust is only 12% propionate, most of it is decanoate... So it doesn't matter a whole lot.

 

[Liftingstud]

sust doesn't really need eod injections, yes that'll take advantage of the short ester prop, but sust is only 12% propionate, most of it is decanoate... So it doesn't matter a whole lot.

Interesting... Cause I had thought about it but people said to go eod with it so for the first time use something longer so u don't have to inj so frequently since it's the first run.

So geeked about first run.

 

[vector18]

Great info so far guys. I really appreciate it. Since these do not kick into until about 4 weeks or so, what about doing one shot once
per week for 10 weeks? As far as d-bol, I was thinking about
using it, but heard it mostly adds water weight. I'm looking for
good quality muscle. My diet is going to stay as is. It's pretty good
but I know I can be alot stricter. It's winter and on the cold side
here in NYC so right now, I'm eating more than normal and just trying to put on some weight before I start to go strict and end
us losing weight for the summer. I was 5'11" and 188 in the summer, and I'm up to 205 right now just by eating alot. My
pants size is still the same so I'm happy about that. I'm probably
going to try winny and something else once the summer gets here.

 

[Liftingstud]

Do yourself a favor and do some research and learning. Obviously u don't know what ur doing.

 

[vector18]

So tell me why sus and deca is not a good choice to take? I may not be knowledgeable, but I know how to lift in the gym, I know how to diet, and most of all, I know what I want to look like. I realize at my age, I need assistance and thats why I am posting for suggestions
and trying to learn what I can. I've been lifting on/off for years and
at 38 yrs old, I'm in the best shape of my life. I want to move on to next step and take something safely, and nothing too strong.
This friend of mine is in incredible shape and is going pro very soon. I do not think he would steer me wrong or give me something wrong, but a 2nd opinion never hurts. So explain to me,
what I should be taking, for how long, how often, etc.

 

[Liftingstud]

Because u have never run test alone and have no idea how u are going to react to test let alone test plus deca... That's why.

 

[Liftingstud]

And thus friend that would not steer u wrong recommended sus and deca for 5 wks? What a knowledgable friend, LOL!!! I have never run inj but know that's just a dumb cycle. Take responsibility for what u are putting in your body... Don't blindly follow... That's how u get in trouble.

 

[CrazyChemist]

Sust / deca is a fine combo its just the deca adds a level of complication. I think youre starting to see 5 weeks of sust is not going to work.

I didn't read all the other posts but you need to do alot of research into a sust/deca or even sust only cycle. I suggest running a minimum of 10 weeks. Rather than tell you everything you need to know here is the sust/deca cycle I am running presently and fcuking love results this far (wishing I logged it, up 10 lean lbs.). Other than the dbol kickstart and the low dose deca, none of the other support supps are really optional.

Wk. 1-4
Dbol 40mg ED
Sustanon 250 mg - Su / W
Formex 100mg ED
10mg nolva
Support Supps

Wk. 5-14
Sustanon 250 mg - Su / W
Deca M / Th
hCG 500 iu Tu / F
10mg nolva
Formex 100mg ED
Support Supps

Wk. 15-16
Sustanon 250 mg - Su / W
Deca M / Th
10mg nolva
Formex 100mg ED
Support Supps

Wk. 17-18
Creatine
Sustain Alpha
Post Cycle Support
Lean Xtreme
Formex 100mg ED

Wk. 19-22
Clomid (100/100/50/25)
Creatine
Post cycle support
Lean Xtreme
Sustain Alpha

Wk. 23-25
Creatine
Post-cycle support
sustain alpha
arimidex (1.5/1.0/0.5)
Lean Xtreme

 

[CrazyChemist]

i just had to edit that previous post like 5 times cause i left stuff out. I keep it all in a microsoft word document on in a spreadsheet and gray out days as they pass. Unfortunately it doesnt transfer over easily.

 

[Liftingstud]

Crazy shouldn't u use the AI oncycle and not nolva? Due to the fact nolva will block estro but nit have much if an effect against deca related gyno. From what I know progesterone gyno needs estro to form. So nolva will do nothing for this. Are u using any other support supps fir deca sides?

 

[vector18]

My friend didn't suggest 5 weeks. I'm only talking to him right now and he suggested sus/deca for my 1st cycle. I posted here to get some opinions. I just assumed it would be 5 weeks, but you know what they say if you assume,LOL. Thanks for the post crazy. Would you happen to have any before/after pics?

 

[CrazyChemist]

Crazy shouldn't u use the AI oncycle and not nolva? Due to the fact nolva will block estro but nit have much if an effect against deca related gyno. From what I know progesterone gyno needs estro to form. So nolva will do nothing for this. Are u using any other support supps fir deca sides?

Correct. The formex is the AI while on cycle. I'm only taking 200mg deca / wk. which is on the low side. The low dose nolva (10mg ED) will have a gyno prevention effect as the estrogen receptors will be blocked.

My friend didn't suggest 5 weeks. I'm only talking to him right now and he suggested sus/deca for my 1st cycle. I posted here to get some opinions. I just assumed it would be 5 weeks, but you know what they say if you assume,LOL. Thanks for the post crazy. Would you happen to have any before/after pics?

Yeah I understand. I'll post before/after pics when I finish. The sust just kicked in last week!

 

[vector18]

What signs do you have that it kicked in?

 

[repmks]

What signs do you have that it kicked in?

pumps,fullness,water,strength....erections

 

[vector18]

pumps,fullness,water,strength....erections

I like the sound of that!:cheers:

 

[CrazyChemist]

pumps,fullness,water,strength....erections

YEAH KID! The longer esters in sust typically take about 4 weeks. Once it kicks in you'll feel invincible, great lifts at the gym, aggression, pumps, alpha-male-ness.

 

[Liftingstud]

Correct. The formex is the AI while on cycle. I'm only taking 200mg deca / wk. which is on the low side. The low dose nolva (10mg ED) will have a gyno prevention effect as the estrogen receptors will be blocked.

Oops totally missed the form... After my test e go looking to run test and deca if there are no problems with the first run.

 

[CrazyChemist]

Oops totally missed the form... After my test e go looking to run test and deca if there are no problems with the first run.

Yeah this is my first use of formex and I like it. I think the otc stuff is decent for on-cycle prevention. Test e deca is good. Sust is usually not worth the additional $$ but in my case is was the same price as test e and I like the blend. It works well for me so why change?

FYI my baseline supps include a multivitamin, l-lysine, flaxseed, fish oil and my protein shakes include whey, milk thistle and BCAAs.

 

[Liftingstud]

Also crazy another thought aa I look through your cycle... Shouldn't u stop the deca a wk to 2wks prior to stopping the test. Deca has a much stronger binding affinity and takes a lot longer to clear. This extra time make sure the deca has cleared before u start pct... Or is it different with sus?

 

[CrazyChemist]

Also crazy another thought aa I look through your cycle... Shouldn't u stop the deca a wk to 2wks prior to stopping the test. Deca has a much stronger binding affinity and takes a lot longer to clear. This extra time make sure the deca has cleared before u start pct... Or is it different with sus?

The half life for testosterone enanthate is 10.5 days approx. while the half life for deca is 14 days. So perhaps skipping the very last deca shot would be a smart move. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Liftingstud]

The half life for testosterone enanthate is 10.5 days approx. while the half life for deca is 14 days. So perhaps skipping the very last deca shot would be a smart move. Thanks for the heads-up.

Here is some info I have gathered:

"Due to the highly suppressive nature of Deca, I will speculate that testosterone in a deca-inclusive cycle needs to be run for at least 2 additional weeks upon cessation of Deca. We remember from the chart above that baseline testosterone levels took roughly a month to return. Hence, a nice long estered testosterone should be run about 2 weeks longer than deca, to prevent having a lag in time when the deca is not producing an anabolic effect, yet is still suppressing your natural testosterone levels. "

 

[Liftingstud]

That being said I would look a skipping the last 2-3 deca injections.

 

[CrazyChemist]

That being said I would look a skipping the last 2-3 deca injections.

Thanks bro. I was going by the half-life but there is no harm in skipping the last 2 weeks I suppose if past precedent warrants it. Good looking out - thanks again. {{UNRELATED NOTE: I can not wait to get out of work and hit the weights :zx11pissed:}}

 

[Liftingstud]

Thanks bro. I was going by the half-life but there is no harm in skipping the last 2 weeks I suppose if past precedent warrants it. Good looking out - thanks again. {{UNRELATED NOTE: I can not wait to get out of work and hit the weights :zx11pissed:}}

you have to understand a few things about human physiology...
1. Halflife and clearance
it takes about 5 halflife for a compound to be cleared from the body. That means at a half life of 14 days deca takes 60 days to clear. So if u inject 200 -> 100 -> 50 -> 25 -> 12.5 -> 5.25 still floating around after 5 halflives. And that can still enough to cause anabolic activity. Very litle bur still.
2. Binding affinity
deca binds strongly to the receptor. Thus as long as it is bound it is not in circulation to be cleared. So compounds that have a strong binding affinity can remain active longer or until they are displaced from the receptor.