Tren/Epi VS m-drol stack

[PLGSXR750]

Which would net more of a mass gain?

I'm going for mass gain and size, looking to go from 184 to 195-200.

A 6 week cycle of tren/epi or 3-4 week of m-drol would be better?

I've read about both, so I have both ready and setup, just need input.

 

[PLGSXR750]

Someones gotta pitch in

 

[juice3320]

Someones gotta pitch in

M-drol man. Tren/Epi would be more of a cutting stack by their nature (however, superdrol is great for cutting as well).

 

[neverstop]

yeah, I agree, run 4 weeks of mdrol at 10/10/20/20 add 2 cytogainer shakes a day and a cassein shake before sleeping and you will do great. make sure you get some SERMs for PCT.

I'm on Xtren now and it's good but I don't feel like it's a great mega bulking steroid. would be great for cutting though or maybe add to a lean bulk.

how many cycles have you run now?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Mdrol -> Pplex bridge for the most mass

 

[PLGSXR750]

This would be my 3rd cycle (over 3 years) and I actually just started tren/epi today. I could stop and take the m-drol but I already opened the bottles so it seems pointless to stop. But I'd really like to gain a ton of weight, and it seems m-drol is better for this?

Please respond.

 

[juice3320]

This would be my 3rd cycle (over 3 years) and I actually just started tren/epi today. I could stop and take the m-drol but I already opened the bottles so it seems pointless to stop. But I'd really like to gain a ton of weight, and it seems m-drol is better for this?

Please respond.

Haha dude why did you ask if you had already started?

 

[PLGSXR750]

figure one day won't mean anything. Should I just start the m-drol instead?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Yeah seriously two people say SD and he's like "well **** you i'm running the other sh1t anyway since i just opened the bottle"

Why waste everyone's time if you're going to decide your cycle based on which bottle you pop open on a whim?

 

[PLGSXR750]

I was just wondering. Think i'll just hold off on the tren/epi and run m-drol

 

[PLGSXR750]

Will drinking a lot of water reduce the chance of back pumps?

 

[Mikey851]

Will drinking a lot of water reduce the chance of back pumps?

Yes, that and taurine.

As far as having opened the bottle; that doesn't matter some PHs come in a bottle that doesn't have a seal on top. As long as you tighten the lid and store it in a dark dry area it will be fine.

 

[PLGSXR750]

Yes, that and taurine.

As far as having opened the bottle; that doesn't matter some PHs come in a bottle that doesn't have a seal on top. As long as you tighten the lid and store it in a dark dry area it will be fine.

What else can I do to avoid the side effects?

I plan to do

10/10/20 and possible a week 4 with 20.

To have m-drol work successfully it requires calories/carbs/protein?

 

[Mikey851]

What else can I do to avoid the side effects?

I plan to do

10/10/20 and possible a week 4 with 20.

To have m-drol work successfully it requires calories/carbs/protein?

Cycle support or something similar will help with blood pressure and liver protection etc. It is a harsh DS, you will have sides; to what extent is where it varies.

It depends on your goals as to what balance of carbs/protein/fats you take in. Of course you will need to eat more than you are burning to build muscle.

 

[PLGSXR750]

Cycle support or something similar will help with blood pressure and liver protection etc. It is a harsh DS, you will have sides; to what extent is where it varies.

It depends on your goals as to what balance of carbs/protein/fats you take in. Of course you will need to eat more than you are burning to build muscle.

Cycle assist and Hawthrone berrys, and a few others will be added to the cycle.

 

[UnrealMachine]

What else can I do to avoid the side effects?

I plan to do

10/10/20 and possible a week 4 with 20.

To have m-drol work successfully it requires calories/carbs/protein?

I was sorry for coming down on you about the bottle, it's whatever and you can switch between them easily.

But really choosing which steroid to bulk is meaningless if you don't have a diet chosen to bulk with. Does it require calories?

YES... calories carbs and protein would be a good idea, and you might want to include some fat. Maybe flesh out your bulking diet a little bit more... I mean look how you are jumping into this, you start the cycle, immediately switch compounds, and now you ask if you need calories?

All the steroids in the world won't make you 200 pounds without the calories. What are your stats, and training experience?

 

[juice3320]

I was sorry for coming down on you about the bottle, it's whatever and you can switch between them easily.

But really choosing which steroid to bulk is meaningless if you don't have a diet chosen to bulk with. Does it require calories?

YES... calories carbs and protein would be a good idea, and you might want to include some fat. Maybe flesh out your bulking diet a little bit more... I mean look how you are jumping into this, you start the cycle, immediately switch compounds, and now you ask if you need calories?

All the steroids in the world won't make you 200 pounds without the calories. What are your stats, and training experience?

x2 on this. How many cycles have you run?

 

[urbanski]

he says its his third but he doenst even have support supps lined up...so zero research here

 

[juice3320]

he says its his third but he doenst even have support supps lined up...so zero research here

Oh ok, thanks man. Yeah I see that now. OP, what did your other cycles look like?

 

[RAZORBACK09]

This is OP here, I switched my e-mail and now I can't even log in so I made a new account to post up.

I didn't post all the details because I do have supports sups and proper PCT set-up, my question was just comparing not weather my cycle is correct. I got that covered.

Sorry if my question about the carbs came out wrong, I didn't mean do I need a lot I ment does m-drol require more then say tren? I ask because I thought I had read that, but with all the things I've been reading I may have mixed something up.

My 2 cycles I've done are 1-AD and TREN XTREME.

I'm 23, 186, lifting for 5-6 years.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Ok. I found for myself that the notion that SD is a carbohydrate hog is a farce. But many people complain about lethargy on SD and some say that increasing carbohydrate intake fixes that. So in that case, SD would tend to lower blood sugar levels as it increases carbohydrate loading into the cells.

Myself, i have never noticed any of this... I can low carb or full ketosis on SD and i don't notice any kind of lethargy... And when I used a high carb diet on SD i got fat so fast it was bad.

So i wouldn't put too much stock in the high carb thing... If you do feel lethargic and aren't gaining enough, then bump the carbs up.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

When I cycle I'm going to shoot for 3g protein per pound of weight.

I've read about delayed gyno, is this from people not taking proper PCT such as clomid?

 

[thundalegs199]

the gyno wont be very delayed after you finish ( if youre refering to tren)

if you run the risk of taking tren (or any other PH/Hormone/steroid of this strength or stronger) without PCT there is a very high chance of lactating. it just occured to someone i knew because the lack of a PCT.

in this case, clomid might not be enough.
adding 6-OXO and some ZMA with the clomid would be enough though
do you have a liver support? from what i heard trenbolone can be quite toxic to the liver

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Cycle assist and hawthorn berries is part of the cycle.

I ment for SD, I have read that people have gotten delayed gyno...

I've taken tren before and didn't get gyno, so i'm not worried about that.

 

[UnrealMachine]

rebound gyno typically occurs from using an AI in pct, which depresses estrogen levels. You come off the AI and estrogen rebounds back up and boom, rebound gyno.

Generally if you use a serm for PCT this isn't as much of a problem. A SERM doesn't actually decrease estrogen, it just keeps estrogen from binding to its receptors... no estrogen suppression means no rebound should occur.

I think rebound gyno with SD is more of a relic of the old 2004/2005 Superdrol days when everybody was taking it with Rebound XT as their PCT, lol.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Gotcha, I still see threads popping up about it. Your saying that the AI is what causes this delayed gyno? Should I avoid a nat. test booster during PCT?

 

[indianballer]

rebound gyno typically occurs from using an AI in pct, which depresses estrogen levels. You come off the AI and estrogen rebounds back up and boom, rebound gyno.

Generally if you use a serm for PCT this isn't as much of a problem. A SERM doesn't actually decrease estrogen, it just keeps estrogen from binding to its receptors... no estrogen suppression means no rebound should occur.

I think rebound gyno with SD is more of a relic of the old 2004/2005 Superdrol days when everybody was taking it with Rebound XT as their PCT, lol.

Very First Cycle:
Methyl Masterdrol - 10/20/20

Rebound XT - 3, 2, 2, 1

man o man I was the only 17 year old with erection problems...live and learn

M-Drol>tren and epi if we're still talking about that

the only legal stack that beats m-drol solo to me is P-Plex/Trenadrol

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Strictly taking about SD. Anything I ask is about SD at this point.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Gotcha, I still see threads popping up about it. Your saying that the AI is what causes this delayed gyno? Should I avoid a nat. test booster during PCT?

natural test boosters are fine in PCT, even ai's are fine, you just have to be aware of how you run them with your SERM, think about what you're doing with the estrogen.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Can you explain the right way to use a test booster then? I've never heard of a wrong way, so I want to make sure I do it right.

 

[Mikey851]

Can you explain the right way to use a test booster then? I've never heard of a wrong way, so I want to make sure I do it right.

You can just take the test booster as per the instructions on the bottle; it may have ingrediants that have AI properties but as long as it's a natural test booster (ie diesel test hardcore) it is not going to affect estrogen like a supplement that is advertised as an aromatase inhibitor such as Formex.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Oh okay, guess I got AI mixed with Natural test booster. I got a bottle of alpha drive XL I'm going to use once the cycle ends.

How should clomid be ran?

Day 1 - 100mg, Then 50/25/25?

 

[Mikey851]

Oh okay, guess I got AI mixed with Natural test booster. I got a bottle of alpha drive XL I'm going to use once the cycle ends.

How should clomid be ran?

Day 1 - 100mg, Then 50/25/25?

I guess I shouldn't really generalize natural test boosters like I did. There may be one out there that suppresses estrogen enough to cause rebound, I don't really know. I just know that the more common natural test boosters that contain things like tribulus or iicarin should not cause the issue. Just run it like it says on the bottle.

If you are concerned about estrogen gyno you should have nolva for pct as it targets estrogen receptors in breast tissue. Clomid will restart your HPTA but will not prevent gyno like nolva.

I don't know about clomid dosing, i've never used it before.

 

[monsterbox]

i beg the differ.

I say epi or epi-tren all the way.

Epi sides are WAY less harsh, you could run Epi+Tren much longer. You will actually feel good and enjoy epi...plus, you will have appetite, sleep, mood, etc..to make it through all the grueling workouts and demmand on your body.

On top of that, I disagree with using steroids on superlow carb keto's and on super-high carb bulking. I think its stupid to try and gain 20lbs on any steroid in 4 weeks. It doesn't matter what you take, or how much of it you take, bottom line is there is not enough workouts to develop enough muscle maturity to gain 20lb of solid muscle thats well defined, usable, and keepable.
Theres more to growing than just taking some compounds, working out hard, and eating alot. It just takes time to have functional/keepable muscle growth.

I would certainly choose epi. It will allow you to take in more carbs without any wet fat gains if you do choose to eat dirty. Your strength won't shoot through the roof like m-drol, but the tren will help out in that aspect. Any muscle you do gain will be much much much more keepable.

I've had HUGE success with epi...Gianganitc pumps, excellent well-being, total body transformation everytime I've used it. It hurts my arthritic elbow, and my last cycle was 30/30/30 cut short at 21 days...however miraculously, without even pushing hard on my workouts from the pain, I managed to bump up from a solid 173 to a solid 181 while dropping BF in 3 weeks!

If you looking to do a huge bulk, get on testosterone for 12 weeks so you can actual gain and keep muscle. Otherwise, I would highly recommend a lean bulk on epi that won't leave you disappointed. You'll be giving up a little in the short run size/strength wise but in the end you'll be happy.

 

[indianballer]

With AI's you almost want to run it backwards from what most people do it

Run your serm like normal: clomid - 50, 50, 50, 50 whatever
but run your AI - 1 cap, 2 cap, 2 cap, 3 caps

This is becuase the more testosterone you start to produce the more it can be aromitized to estrogen. More testosterone toward the latter end of PCT, therefore stronger AI support at the latter end of PCT. Run a test booster like DTP 6 caps thruout. that's basically my next pct....try it. it works

 

[UnrealMachine]

monsterbox you are like juicedup in that you are both excellent responders to Epi and get results pretty far above average. For me Epi wasn't enough to impart any gains in mass or strength, which is why i pushed for Mdrol, as I think Superdrol will on average impart more LBM gains than any other oral or even the epi/tren stack.

You also had a totally freakish bad reaction to Mdrol which was very atypical. It is heavy on sides for many people but for many others like myself it's magic. Really the only way to know is to give it a try.

Your points are valid though, in a 4 week cycle you cannot gain much actual muscle unless you are fairly new to working out. And i wish i could recommend injects to more people here but most of the people are here because they either don't have AAS sources or don't want to break the law (or are afraid of needles, lol).

 

[monsterbox]

With AI's you almost want to run it backwards from what most people do it

Run your serm like normal: clomid - 50, 50, 50, 50 whatever
but run your AI - 1 cap, 2 cap, 2 cap, 3 caps

This is becuase the more testosterone you start to produce the more it can be aromitized to estrogen. More testosterone toward the latter end of PCT, therefore stronger AI support at the latter end of PCT. Run a test booster like DTP 6 caps thruout. that's basically my next pct....try it. it works

Alot of people do like you suggested,

It seems counterproductive to use with the serm, howver you are correct about AI at latter end. The AI really shouldbe an extension to the 4 week SERM if you choose to use one.

Heres my reasoning:

Why use an AI during full dosage SERM usage? Maybe use an AI on clomid because it doesn't protect the breast tissue as well, but most people will be using nolvadex along with clomid. Therefore, If you run 40/20/20/20 of nolva, you are completely protected by the SERM.

1. Your hormones will return to balance much quicker if the body is allowed to balance itself out under use of SERM without the AI. If you stifle estrogen from the beginning w/AI while using the SERM, the pituitary may hinder testosterone production to keep the T/E ratio with the low-E.

So, the ai should be saved for the ramping down off of the SERM to prevent any rebound of maybe overly raised T converting to E2.

So, Ideally, SERM 40/20/20/20 AI 0/0/0/3/2/2/1

This makes for a 7 week PCT, that will have absolutely no rebound gyno etc..

 

[indianballer]

oh man how I would love to run some test E for 12 weeks with a 4 week anadrol kickstart...One day

 

[indianballer]

Very excellent point monsterbox...I have in the past run Aromasin for the last 4 weeks of a m1,4ad cycle and did a Clomid PCT and followed that with aromasin again the next four weeks

PCT is really so young there's a billion theories and millions are effective

 

[monsterbox]

oh man how I would love to run some test E for 12 weeks with a 4 week anadrol kickstart...One day

dayum. I would secnd that.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

I currently have clomid ready so that is what i'm going to use. A 7 week PCT is the best way to go it seems?

 

[monsterbox]

I currently have clomid ready so that is what i'm going to use. A 7 week PCT is the best way to go it seems?

Well, that is if you plan on using an AI, which might be totally not needed.

4 weeks SERM and then start and taper down the AI to prevent rebound if you feel puffy, estrogenic after coming down of the SERM. If you are not completely restarted, then don't come down on the SERM until you are 100% sure. I think this is where most people make their mistake. They assume 4 weeks of SERM fits every cycle for everyone.

 

[qwerty33]

if you feel puffy you would want to lower the ai? why not wait till the puffyness is over

 

[monsterbox]

if you feel puffy you would want to lower the ai? why not wait till the puffyness is over

no, I meant, when coming off the SERM is you feel puffy/estrogenic/hotflashes etc....start the AI and then taper down.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Can epi cause back pumps?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Can epi cause back pumps?

yeah, in some people. My friend got them. I ran 40mg and didn't. Just varies from person to person.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

yeah, in some people. My friend got them. I ran 40mg and didn't. Just varies from person to person.

I think I got them today. My shipment of m-drol never came so I have to re-order so I just stack the tren/epi to see what results I get. I had some pretty intense lower back pain after deadlifts, had to cut the deadlifts short.

 

[neverstop]

JUST STACK THEM ALL!! HAHAH

j/k

backpumps are worse with mdrol man! bananas and taurine help. I'd second the mdrol cycle but I'd run it at lower dose for longer, no need to go over 10-20mg for 90% of people imo.

I'd say run it 10/10/20/20/20

I could see gaining 8lbs of muscle on something like this once it's all said and done.

But since you are already on epi/tren now for a little while, probably best to just keep on keeping on, either one will get you swole at this point man and both will be fun.

for PCT I usually just wait and use the natty test boosters about 2 weeks into PCT.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Yeah for the tren/epi I'm going to run for 6 weeks.

Tren - 120/120/120/120/120-160/120-160
Epi - 30/30/30/40/40-50/40-50

Drinking 1 gallon a day.

I haven't really felt any different in the gym yet, it's been 6 days.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Does epi cause headaches?

Also, i'm about to finish week 2 of tren/epi and I think I want to go with 40mg of epi, no side effects besides mild back pumps at the gym.