Looking for info

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
I am 38 and used to weigh 230 pound a little over a year ago, I am now 170, I ate right for the most part, and threw in a little cardio here and there to shed the top coat of fat.

I am looking to add about 20 pounds back to my body in the form of lean mass.

I have never had gains working out in the gym, I used to hit it religiously when I played ball in college and never had anything more than well defined tiny arms and legs.

A bunch of people that I work with are using SUS500 and I am heavily considering it. I have been reading everything that I could for the last few weeks. I know the risks, and benefits, I just dont know if SUS would be the right choice for me as I have never taken anything before. I tried to take a fat burner when I was shedding my fat but my tolerance for it wasnt right.

Any suggestions of what I can take? I have no problem putting in the hard work, I just want to see results that I have never been able to produce on my own.
 
nosnmiveins

nosnmiveins

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have never had gains working out in the gym, I used to hit it religiously when I played ball in college and never had anything more than well defined tiny arms and legs.
its because u dont gain in the gym, u gain with a spot on diet and plenty of rest.

its quite obvious that diet seems to be ur problem here
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
I wish it were as easy as just might diet, I have tried everything from very high protien to a 50 / 40 / 10, 60 / 30 / 10... I have run up and down the scale in weight, I just cant pack on muscle, I can gain and lose fat at will, but no matter how hard I train, and no matter how clean I eat, I dont get any results. In college we had trainers and dieticians... I ate and did what they said, nothen...
 

Libertarian

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Have you gotten blood tests done lately? If so, how are your testosterone levels? Sometimes people have a hard time putting on lean mass and then find out they have naturally low Testosterone. It's rare but it does happen.

If that's not it, post your typical diet and training routine you use while bulking and people here will offer suggestions. Some people seem to put on muscle easily no matter what they do while others really have to have their diet and training seriously tightened down to see any gains. Nothing wrong with that, we just have to play the cards we're dealt.
 
GMG760

GMG760

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I wish it were as easy as just might diet, I have tried everything from very high protien to a 50 / 40 / 10, 60 / 30 / 10... I have run up and down the scale in weight, I just cant pack on muscle, I can gain and lose fat at will, but no matter how hard I train, and no matter how clean I eat, I dont get any results. In college we had trainers and dieticians... I ate and did what they said, nothen...
Gaining mass isn't impossible bud. It takes some time to do it naturally, and dedication.

I'd say if you can't gain without steroids, you aren't going to keep the gains you achieve from the steroids.

Post your diet scheme and your workout program. There are PLENTY of knowledgeable people that can get you on track before you start playing with your hormones.
 
Jayhawkk

Jayhawkk

Legend
Awards
2
  • Legend!
  • Established
If your diet was followed with the plan on gaining mass any regardless how many calories you took in you couldnt gain muscle you may have hormone issues that steroids in a cycle will only address on a temporary basis.

This is basing my opinion off your statement that you can add fat but not muscle. Leading me to believe you were in a surplus of calories during your lifting timeframe. talk with a doctor and get bloodwork done and make sure you don't have any issues you need to deal with prior to throwing supps and steroids into your system.

Of course if you're just using that story as an excuse to get a cycle approved, you're going about it the wrong way.
 
lilsugaro6490

lilsugaro6490

Member
Awards
0
Gaining mass isn't impossible bud. It takes some time to do it naturally, and dedication.

I'd say if you can't gain without steroids, you aren't going to keep the gains you achieve from the steroids.

Post your diet scheme and your workout program. There are PLENTY of knowledgeable people that can get you on track before you start playing with your hormones.
x2 on that. For sure
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
Gaining mass isn't impossible bud. It takes some time to do it naturally, and dedication.

I'd say if you can't gain without steroids, you aren't going to keep the gains you achieve from the steroids.

Post your diet scheme and your workout program. There are PLENTY of knowledgeable people that can get you on track before you start playing with your hormones.
Valid point on the keeping of the mass, but I would like to believe that once it is there, I can maintain it on my own, is this not possible? I just want a little mass, I look like an indy rock star :(
 

rckvl7

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Valid point on the keeping of the mass, but I would like to believe that once it is there, I can maintain it on my own, is this not possible? I just want a little mass, I look like an indy rock star :(
Do yourself a favor and get some bloodwork done.
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
If your diet was followed with the plan on gaining mass any regardless how many calories you took in you couldnt gain muscle you may have hormone issues that steroids in a cycle will only address on a temporary basis.

This is basing my opinion off your statement that you can add fat but not muscle. Leading me to believe you were in a surplus of calories during your lifting timeframe. talk with a doctor and get bloodwork done and make sure you don't have any issues you need to deal with prior to throwing supps and steroids into your system.

Of course if you're just using that story as an excuse to get a cycle approved, you're going about it the wrong way.
I meant in my lifetime I can only gain fat and not muscle, when i workout and diet properly i just cut what i have, without adding inches.

I return to the states in the beginning of december for a week, what tests should I ask the doc to perfom? I got a full workup before I deployed, but it was just standard stuff, nothing wrong with me on a normal screening, but Im sure they didnt test hormone levels on that exam.

There is no "story" and im not looking for approal, I just figure collectivly this group has done a ton more research that I have and I am looking for some guidance and help with how I can go about doing this the right way.
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
Diet

Right now my diet is pretty weak as I am limited on choices.

breakfast, clif bar
lunch, 2 chicken breasts, 1/2 cup mixed veg
snack, paleokit
dinner, usually some type of beef, mashed taters, mixed veg


Today's workout

Chest
incline bench
flat bench
decline fly

Tris
Bench dip
close-grip bench
lying tri extension

Since I am trying to grow I am lifting heavy and doing 3 set with the reps being 6, 6, 8
 

rckvl7

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Right now my diet is pretty weak as I am limited on choices.

breakfast, clif bar
lunch, 2 chicken breasts, 1/2 cup mixed veg
snack, paleokit
dinner, usually some type of beef, mashed taters, mixed veg


Today's workout

Chest
incline bench
flat bench
decline fly

Tris
Bench dip
close-grip bench
lying tri extension

Since I am trying to grow I am lifting heavy and doing 3 set with the reps being 6, 6, 8
You really need to try to eat more if possible. The biggest thing you want checked is your testosterone, dunno what else.
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
You really need to try to eat more if possible. The biggest thing you want checked is your testosterone, dunno what else.

I would eat more, but im scared of getting fat again since my body is not converting it into muscle. I'm sure my test is fine, I just think I was blessed with crappy genetics
 

Link24

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Right now my diet is pretty weak as I am limited on choices.

breakfast, clif bar
lunch, 2 chicken breasts, 1/2 cup mixed veg
snack, paleokit
dinner, usually some type of beef, mashed taters, mixed veg


Today's workout

Chest
incline bench
decline fly

Tris
Bench dip
close-grip bench
lying tri extension

Since I am trying to grow I am lifting heavy and doing 3 set with the reps being 6, 6, 8
Dude, no wonder you lost weight! I eat more than that in 1-2 meals. Get bloodwork done and eat ALOT more food than that. . . I would say start with 3500 calories and go from there
 

rckvl7

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
If you are not gaining it's because you aren't eating enough, aren't training properly, or aren't getting the proper recovery. Or you could have low test. If you are trying to gain muscle you WILL gain fat with it, it's inevitable.
 

Libertarian

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Right now my diet is pretty weak as I am limited on choices.

breakfast, clif bar - - Glorified candybar, junk. First meal should be very high in protien, not sugar
lunch, 2 chicken breasts, 1/2 cup mixed veg - Good
snack, paleokit - Don't know wtf that is. Eat some real food damnit.
dinner, usually some type of beef, mashed taters, mixed veg - Go for red potatoes. Otherwise good

WHERE ARE YOUR OTHER 4 MEALS?
Stop blaming your genetics. You eat like an anorexic 16 year old girl. You need WAY more protien.

You should be eating every two hours. Every meal should include protien. Lean meats, fish, and dairy are excellent sources.

Man, I would go more into detail about how get your diet right but I'm not in the mood to spoon feed. Seriously, this shows how little time you've invested into researching proper nutrition and how little effort you've put into it. And here you are blaming your genetics. Hell, for all we know you might have excellent bodybuilding genetics but you'd never know because you're not eating.

Scared about gaining fat? Pffffff, part of bulking means gaining a little fat, that's why we cut. Besides, you can minimize the amount of fat you gain to almost nothing if you square away your diet and as long as you put on more muscle than fat your body fat % will drop. You have to start counting your damn calories and keeping track of your macros. After a while you'll learn through trial and error what your optimum caloric intake and macro-nutrient ratios are.

The sad part is I have a feeling that I might as well be speaking a foreign language to you. Your story is like someone complaining that their car doesn't run when they haven't even put the key in the ignition yet. In fact, I don't even know if you've walked out to your driveway yet it sounds like you're still on the couch reading Country Living.

Often I disagree with people who tell others that they need to wait until they run AAS as long as it is done safely. But with you, I would certainly say AAS are not the way to go. You would make minimal gains for what you put your body through, and you would lose it all shortly after. I am 99% sure of that.

Learn how to eat, put on a significant amount of muscle mass naturally while maintaining a low bodyfat, then come back here and ask again.
 
UnrealMachine

UnrealMachine

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
^^ I think that covers it really well. Diet is way way off, there's not nearly enough protein
 
jakellpet

jakellpet

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
How often are you working out?

Wont get much gains if your working 6-7 days a week.

On a bulk you should only be working out 3-4.
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
Stop blaming your genetics. You eat like an anorexic 16 year old girl. You need WAY more protien.

You should be eating every two hours. Every meal should include protien. Lean meats, fish, and dairy are excellent sources.

Man, I would go more into detail about how get your diet right but I'm not in the mood to spoon feed. Seriously, this shows how little time you've invested into researching proper nutrition and how little effort you've put into it. And here you are blaming your genetics. Hell, for all we know you might have excellent bodybuilding genetics but you'd never know because you're not eating.

Scared about gaining fat? Pffffff, part of bulking means gaining a little fat, that's why we cut. Besides, you can minimize the amount of fat you gain to almost nothing if you square away your diet and as long as you put on more muscle than fat your body fat % will drop. You have to start counting your damn calories and keeping track of your macros. After a while you'll learn through trial and error what your optimum caloric intake and macro-nutrient ratios are.

The sad part is I have a feeling that I might as well be speaking a foreign language to you. Your story is like someone complaining that their car doesn't run when they haven't even put the key in the ignition yet. In fact, I don't even know if you've walked out to your driveway yet it sounds like you're still on the couch reading Country Living.

Often I disagree with people who tell others that they need to wait until they run AAS as long as it is done safely. But with you, I would certainly say AAS are not the way to go. You would make minimal gains for what you put your body through, and you would lose it all shortly after. I am 99% sure of that.

Learn how to eat, put on a significant amount of muscle mass naturally while maintaining a low bodyfat, then come back here and ask again.
Ouch...

I agree my diet might be off a little bit right now, but my options are limited. Not making excuses, I am in a war zone and only get food when the chow halls open, the paleokits are what I can carry with me, they are like beef jerky and nuts, gives me protien and good carbs plus a lil fat. I dont know what else to do out here, I was hoping to spend some time in the gym and work my ass off but aparently without the right fuel my efforts would be wasted and I would only lose more weight.

I understand everything you said and I agree that I am to blame, maybe I was just looking for the easy way to get some size. Don't get me wrong, im not scared of the work, and like i said, I have never had huge gains, when I was in college I was 230, my legs will tone up nice and get a little mass, my arms have NEVER gained, they are pretty small, I used to be able to lift pretty good amount of weight, but it never showed on my body.

I am working out on a 4 day plan, but I dont take a day off, I do the 4 days, and begin it all over on the 5th. I did stop cardio because I was told that that is making it harded to get anywhere.

Dont know what to do at this point...

I appriciate your help, I might just be better suited to wait until I return to the states in order to begin again
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
Snice I cant get mean based protien should I sub that with whey? would that help me out at all?
 
UnrealMachine

UnrealMachine

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I am working out on a 4 day plan, but I dont take a day off, I do the 4 days, and begin it all over on the 5th. I did stop cardio because I was told that that is making it harded to get anywhere.

Dont know what to do at this point...

I appriciate your help, I might just be better suited to wait until I return to the states in order to begin again
Your diet was horrible and I thought that at least your training would be OK and that the diet was wholely responsible for your lack of gains... But NO, your training is horrible.

YOU CAN'T TRAIN EVERDAY OF EVERY WEEK

That's insane

Diet sucks, training sucks... Wow, no wonder there's no gains. Get yourself some off days... how the hell are you suppposed to recover when you workout everyday? I'm blown away. You acted like you had adjusted diet and training and needed steroids, clearly that is not the case and you have a lot to learn about diet and training because you are not applying even the most basic concepts necessary for success.
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
So, what would you suggest for a diet and training plan? How to I begin to get properly educated?
 

rckvl7

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I would suggest a simple program that focuses on compound lifts. You can add stuff in after you have made some progress on a few basic lifts. Something along these lines:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs

*that site has lots of great info on it, spend time surfing around it.

I would really suggest getting Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. It focuses more on strength than getting bigger but you will most definitly get bigger following his program. I put on ~20 lbs in 4 months doing it.

As for diet it varies person to person but just try to eat as much as possible, especially protein. Whole milk is great for getting extra calories. Get some whey protein too if you can.
 

Libertarian

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
So, what would you suggest for a diet and training plan? How to I begin to get properly educated?
I might have been a little harsh in my last post, I made it right before hitting the sack. Instead of ragging on you I'll go over some of the basics to get you started.

Training
As far as training goes, what works best for everyone is different. My advice is choose a training program that is known to work for many people and go from there. Over time you'll learn what works best for you individually. Everyone has their own favorite method of training, research some of the popular ones and experiment.

I started with a 3 day split, hitting each muscle-group once per week. Soon after I realized it wasn't enough and moved to a 4 day split. A 5 day split might be even better for me but it's hard for me to get to the gym that often consistently. The less muscles you have to hit each session the harder you can hit them. Since you only hit each group once per week, make it your goal to hit them so hard they're sore until you hit them again.

It's always changing, but right now my split is Biceps/Upper Back, Chest/Triceps, Lower Back/Upper Legs/Shoulders, Abs/Calves. As you can see a 5th day would be helpful to move shoulders into as well as give me an opportunity to focus more on forearms and traps. I'm always changing it up and it's different for each body-part, but starting out I really liked the 5x5.

This is very subjective, but I personally I like to do about 3-4 workouts per muscle group. So if you were doing 5x5 on Chest/Tris day, that would mean about 15-20 sets for each, 30-40 total for that day. I can do this in 45-75 minutes. The key is not to BS when you're at the gym, stay focused on why you are there.

Oh, and SLEEP! You have to give your body a chance to recover and minimize the risk of over-training.



Diet
With diet, again, what works for everyone is different. The key really is counting your calories and keeping track of your macro-nutrients, basically your daily carb/fat/protien ratios. This goes for whether you're bulking or cutting, don't use a bulk as an excuse to get sloppy with your diet. Do a little research and you will find some "standard" ratios. Start with those and tweak to find what works for you.

Get yourself a food scale they are absolutely mandatory and cheap. After a while weighing your food will become an automatic habit. Before you put anything in your mouth your first thought should be how it will fit into your diet as far as calories and macros are concerned. This is a big change to make and at first will be rather difficult and time consuming, but after a while it will pretty much become automatic. In fact, I wouldn't recommend making such a big jump all at once. Ease yourself into it. Maybe start by keeping a rough count of your calories and focus on eating 6 "clean" meals a day (unprocessed foods, whole grains, lean meats and fish, lots of veggies, etc.), and taking in a lot of protien. Doing just this will probably give you results. Then start keeping track of and dialing in your macros.

Soon, if you're like me, not only will you be planning your meals ahead of time for the sake of convenience but you'll be packing yourself lunches and constantly thinking ahead every time you walk out the door to make sure you have some food to shove down your throat every two hours.

Eating clean isn't as expensive as some people make it out to be. Frozen chicken breast and veggies can be purchased in bulk pretty cheap. I've been eating a lot of Talapia as well since it is a cheap fish. Then carb sources like oats and brown rice are also very cheap. I spend a fraction on food that my friends who constantly eat out spend. It does take time preparing all your own food but overtime you learn to streamline your tasks and and save time.

Basically the weight you gain or lose mostly depends on your caloric intake. For losing weight, a pound of fat will cost you about a 3,500 calorie deficit. This means if you wanted to shoot for 2 pounds a week (which is the maximum unless you are very obese) that means you would want a 7,000 calorie deficit per week. No, I don't recommend dropping into a 1,000 calorie deficit per day right off the bat. I'd say start at 500-600 and then adjust every couple weeks depending on your results. Oh, and make sure you are still lifting heavy even if you are cutting. This will help you retain muscle mass. Think of it as a way of telling your body that you still need that muscle mass.

To gain weight, you need a surplus of calories - you want to take in more calories than you burn. I'll let you do some research to find a good starting point as far as how much of a surplus. Start with something moderate and increase/decrease based on your results.

As far as what your "maintenance" caloric intake is (the amount of calories that you burn per day), it is different for everyone. It depends on your body mass and daily activity. There are numerous calculators online that will help you establish a rough estimate to begin with.



Tracking Progress
To keep track of your progress, don't worry so much about what the scale says. Get yourself some body fat calipers, they're very cheap. It's not the most accurate measurement but in my experience it is consistent which is most important. Obviously the most accurate measures are not accessible to most of us on a regular basis. Measure your body fat about every 2 weeks or so, and do it at the same time of the day. Obvious choice would be right when you wake up. Using your body fat percentage and your weight you can estimate your progress as far as how much fat you are losing and how much muscle you are gaining. Using just your weight measurement alone will not tell you that. I also recommend taking "progress pics" every two weeks. You see yourself in the mirror everyday so you won't notice the changes too much. But when you go back and compare your progress shots you surely will and it can be very motivating.



Wow, that's a lot of stuff I just typed. Maybe I've had enough coffee.... Anyway, I went back and divided up my post into sections for you. It might seem like a LOT all at once, but again, there is nothing wrong with making changes little by little, in fact, I recommend it.
 
GMG760

GMG760

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
These guys have the right idea bro.

If you changed your diet and worked out HARD 3-4 days a week I bet you would see instant growth without hormones. You eat like my little sister. Honestly. The hardest part of this entire game is the diet part, and making yourself eat a ton of food day in and day out. Eat like it is your day-job. Follow a set schedule, it takes a damn long time before you are gonna be able to "wing it".

There will be plenty of steroids to take later, when you have your diet and training down.
 

ImBatman

New member
Awards
0
Libertarian: I can handle harsh, my skin is very thick, and if I am screwing up, you are the guys that would know it.

Your diet sounds exactly like what I used to eat back in the states when I started my slim down journey.

I can drink the protien (yuk) as I can get my friends in the states to ship that over, but as far as brown rice, they only serve white at the chow hall, veggies i can get, fish is not available, but I can get chicken breasts at most meals, and that is usually what I get. Beef is usually some kind of pot roast, i trim as much fat off as possible. For breakfast im going to ditch the clif bars and opt for a big ass plate of eggs and some turkey sausage along with a shake to try to get even more protien. I have lactose issues so I can do the milk thing, I have tried a few different whey isoliate, and so far they are all nasty, i have about a dozen or so more to try, eventually i will find a flavor that i like, i have done this many times and can usually tolerate a flavor for about 2 pounds worth, then i have to move on to something else.


I told my buddies what you guys had said about rest, they thought I was, but I told them I was doing a 4 day workout, and just starting back over on day 5, they laughed and called me a dumbass as well. :)

I was looking at doing this workout muscleandstrength . com/workouts/dougs-4-day-split-workout . html ... is that good or bad?

I did the before picture thing... i look at it from time to time, damn i was a piggy ;)

The gym here is very limited so I do what I can... it has most of the standard upper body stuff, mostly free weights, and a ton of dumb bell racks, legs on the other hand is a different story, we have a leg press, leg extension, leg curl, and a seated calf maching, and thats it, 1 of each.

I appriciate the help of everyone here, I guess I should have focused more on the basics and given it another hard charge before looking for hormone help?
 

Similar threads


Top