Personal Opinions Poll: Letro or Caber for Prolactin?

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    Personal Opinions Poll: Letro or Caber for Prolactin?


    First off lets say that its good to be somewhat back. I was a forum whore all through the summer and now its been about two months since ive been on the forums. I will try to answer everyone mail in the next couple of days. I have a lot to go through but I plan on answering all of them. Im hoping to be able to get on the boards more in the near future.

    Unreal Machine: sorry bro for not being able to return your phone calls. Gold's Gym has me running splits. 5am-9am than 4pm 7 pm. I have to get up at 4 am so I pretty much work, take a nap, go back to work, workout, sleep. thats what my schedule has consisted of so its been hard to return your calls. im eager to talk to you tho man. its been too long.

    NOW, finally onto what this is all about.

    Who has had better success with treating prolactin gyno with Caber or Letro? Which one has yielded stronger results for deminishing prolactin gyno.

    And again, good to be back.

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    bump
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    once u control estro ON cycle prolactin gyno will not occur, but if once u have it through prolactin i assume caber since letro is a powerfull AI more for the aromatizing of estro kind of gyno
    ~ IRON LIVERô________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]
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    agree with jason above

    seth roberts wrote a thread a while ago, maybe in like april/may, on the topic of progestin induced prolactin gyno and prolactin in general.

    his main points were that prolactin cant exist in an estrogen controlled environment ie. while you're on an AI, and that the key to controlling prolactin is through controlling estrogen. caber is very effective but comes with side effects and some toxicity i believe.

    the preventative approach would be to focus on controlling estrogen, and as an additional measure limiting prolactin with natural antagonists like p5p/b6, vitex, l-dopa, 1-carboxy, and such. theres also bromocriptine, but i'd put that on the same level as cabergoline. pramipexole is another option also.

    in the case you already have the prolactin gyno, you should prob look into the pharmaceutical route, caber or bromocriptine, in addition to an AI. I'm sure a serm might help in the beginning but once the AI takes care of your E levels there wont be any to bind to the receptor sites behind your nipples/chest anyway. I've seen guys run "AntiGyno" stacks on here with some success... basically just running an AI/serm/prolactin antagonist concoction, and sometimes even with low dose epi, for 1-2 months. Some have had success with this. I would try and dig into the forum archives and find some of these threads, as well as Seth's thread on prolactin induced gyno.

    i wish i could help you more. gyno sucks **** but it eventually happens to the best of us. unfortunately i was blessed with the terrible pubertal gyno that never went away. it's been there since im 11... so i've had them f*ckin lumps for 11 years! i've had plenty of success reducing the size of my lumps with numerous AI's rx/otc, serms, and even epi. only problem is that a couple days or weeks after the drugs cease, they grow back to their original size. my way of looking at it is while on one hand i got ****ed with gyno at 11years old, on the other hand i've been blessed with great genetics for muscle and above average test levels, which i'd like to believe is the reason why after puberty, my body still has problems dealing with estrogen; problems metabolizing estrogen properly. Who knows though? I'm 22 and no one in the medical field has been able to tell me why thus far. the only answer i get and get a lot is "sean, there's just a small population of people whose pubertal gynecomastia does not go away on its own, and stays with you until surgical removal"

    hope something i said benefited you or at least pointed you in a direction to research. good luck brova.






    and

    F*CK GYNO. F*CK IT HARD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanyK View Post
    agree with jason above

    seth roberts wrote a thread a while ago, maybe in like april/may, on the topic of progestin induced prolactin gyno and prolactin in general.

    his main points were that prolactin cant exist in an estrogen controlled environment ie. while you're on an AI, and that the key to controlling prolactin is through controlling estrogen. caber is very effective but comes with side effects and some toxicity i believe.

    the preventative approach would be to focus on controlling estrogen, and as an additional measure limiting prolactin with natural antagonists like p5p/b6, vitex, l-dopa, 1-carboxy, and such. theres also bromocriptine, but i'd put that on the same level as cabergoline. pramipexole is another option also.

    in the case you already have the prolactin gyno, you should prob look into the pharmaceutical route, caber or bromocriptine, in addition to an AI. I'm sure a serm might help in the beginning but once the AI takes care of your E levels there wont be any to bind to the receptor sites behind your nipples/chest anyway. I've seen guys run "AntiGyno" stacks on here with some success... basically just running an AI/serm/prolactin antagonist concoction, and sometimes even with low dose epi, for 1-2 months. Some have had success with this. I would try and dig into the forum archives and find some of these threads, as well as Seth's thread on prolactin induced gyno.

    i wish i could help you more. gyno sucks **** but it eventually happens to the best of us. unfortunately i was blessed with the terrible pubertal gyno that never went away. it's been there since im 11... so i've had them f*ckin lumps for 11 years! i've had plenty of success reducing the size of my lumps with numerous AI's rx/otc, serms, and even epi. only problem is that a couple days or weeks after the drugs cease, they grow back to their original size. my way of looking at it is while on one hand i got ****ed with gyno at 11years old, on the other hand i've been blessed with great genetics for muscle and above average test levels, which i'd like to believe is the reason why after puberty, my body still has problems dealing with estrogen; problems metabolizing estrogen properly. Who knows though? I'm 22 and no one in the medical field has been able to tell me why thus far. the only answer i get and get a lot is "sean, there's just a small population of people whose pubertal gynecomastia does not go away on its own, and stays with you until surgical removal"

    hope something i said benefited you or at least pointed you in a direction to research. good luck brova.






    and

    F*CK GYNO. F*CK IT HARD.
    I agree with my point above. But, if you have elevated prolactin (meaning a blood test), then caber is best.
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    but keep in mind that caber isn't stable in liquid, so if you are buying it get tablets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    I agree with my point above. But, if you have elevated prolactin (meaning a blood test), then caber is best.
    Hey seth, what do you know of pramipexole? At research sites, caber is only available in liquid form; as EasyEJL stated, it's pretty ineffective (i tried liquid caber and it was not strong enough). I've heard good things about prami, but i still haven't heard much about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Hey seth, what do you know of pramipexole? At research sites, caber is only available in liquid form; as EasyEJL stated, it's pretty ineffective (i tried liquid caber and it was not strong enough). I've heard good things about prami, but i still haven't heard much about it.
    It is supposed to be more effective but it is still relativley new. How did you know caber was not strong enough? did you have tests done? Have you tried bromo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    It is supposed to be more effective but it is still relativley new. How did you know caber was not strong enough? did you have tests done? Have you tried bromo?
    Well, I know what caber is supposed to do, the most i did was .5mg 3x a week for 2 weeks, and I just started to notice the effects, seemed much weaker than other people had reported for that dosing scheme.

    For treating gyno, i dosed .5mg 2-3x a week and it never helped at all (this was in conjunction with a moderate dose of nolva and a low dose of letro)
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Well, I know what caber is supposed to do, the most i did was .5mg 3x a week for 2 weeks, and I just started to notice the effects, seemed much weaker than other people had reported for that dosing scheme.

    For treating gyno, i dosed .5mg 2-3x a week and it never helped at all (this was in conjunction with a moderate dose of nolva and a low dose of letro)
    It is possible it is underdosed but again, I am not a proponent of using caber unless one has blood tests showing elevated prolactin and then only to bring prolactin down to normal ranges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    It is possible it is underdosed but again, I am not a proponent of using caber unless one has blood tests showing elevated prolactin and then only to bring prolactin down to normal ranges.
    If it is def prolactin then caber is most certainly the way to go. But as stated it is pretty harsh on the body.
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    Have you considered mega dosing vitmain B6? Sorry if this is irrelavent to the question but just another option.
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    Everything i've used against progestin gyno has failed... I wasn't doing B6 but i was doing vitex and p5p. I know that travis is using B6 and it's not working. I have told him to look into pramipexole because I think that has the most promise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Everything i've used against progestin gyno has failed... I wasn't doing B6 but i was doing vitex and p5p. I know that travis is using B6 and it's not working. I have told him to look into pramipexole because I think that has the most promise.
    have you tried adding in an androgen and a serm? and have you read this: Progesterone and Prolactin
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    have you tried adding in an androgen and a serm? and have you read this: Progesterone and Prolactin
    Ok yes I do remember this but I've never fully understood the relationship.

    My experience with what I call "progestin gyno" is this: 1) i got gyno from Max LMG, started dosing letrozole immediately, no effect, stopped the max lmg and continued letro, took 2 weeks for the gyno to go away 2) i got gyno from the PH "tren," started dosing caber .5mg 2-3x a week, nolva 20mg a day, letro (low dose that i dont remember), P5P & Vitex (low/moderate doses that i don't remember). The gyno flare went down a little; i thought my treatment was working. But it did not continue to go down, the gyno stuck around with all that treatment, it seemed invincible. I got off the tren. Once again, was almost 2 weeks before the gyno went away.

    I've gotten gyno from testosterone and in that case, letrozole clears it up immediately (like, same day). So there is a huge discrepancy between the gyno caused by test and the gyno I got from "progestins."

    I guess I am confused as to why my "progestin gyno" was invincible to letrozole... I know gyno needs an estrogen-rich environment to grow and promote growth as you said; the doses of letro i was taking should eradicate my estrogen levels and make it impossible for the gyno growth to continue, however letrozole didn't affect it at all.

    I've read parallel stories that ended in success once caber or prami were employed, which leads me to believe that even if estrogen levels are low, prolactin will keep the gyno going somehow.
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    I am disappointed that you haven't read my book

    the norsteroids convert to less potent androgens through 5-alpha reductase which offsets the androgen/estrogen ratio. It is blamed on progesterone or porlactin but my opinion is that it is still and androgen/estrogen issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    I am disappointed that you haven't read my book

    the norsteroids convert to less potent androgens through 5-alpha reductase which offsets the androgen/estrogen ratio. It is blamed on progesterone or porlactin but my opinion is that it is still and androgen/estrogen issue.
    So that is why you say add an androgen... I was on 525mg of test prop a week, i guess that wasn't enough.
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    I hate to be the jackass to say this, but because you aren't new to the forum, i feel the need more so...


    there is lots of information easily accesable at your fingertips.
    and besides that, these are two different drugs, that do different things. one is for prolactin, the other is for aromatase.

    seems like a no brainer to me. and possibly in the wrong section.

    welcome back travis. some thought your sd/pp log killed you. i just think it killed some of the brain cells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    So that is why you say add an androgen... I was on 525mg of test prop a week, i guess that wasn't enough.
    no, because the norsteroid likely acts as a 5-alpha reductasse inhibitor and there is competition from the 5-alpha nor
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    Ive been dosing b6 pretty high with no results. i also tried lowering my estro with tamoxifen and again no help. i think im going to give prampexole a go and see if i can help take it down with that. im not willing to trust caber in a liquid form. i have some nolva left over so once i get the prampexole im going to hit it with pram, nolva, and still dose the b6. i'll see if that can get rid of it as much as possible.

    jbry, its just a poll bro. i just wanted to see ppls opinions. go masterbate and release some of that test you have in ya right now.
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    to highlight what unreal is saying above. i have been hitting this crap with nolva for over two weeks now at a high dose before bed and it is still fighting back and not getting any better. even getting worse actually. this again, highlights the fact that in a low estro enviroment this **** is still thriving. i pray to God the pram works.
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    having a similar issue. Bump for any updates on the Prami.
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    Ive been doing alot of research on this man. this is the best bet imo:

    B6: 600mg daily (broken up to two doses of 300mg)
    Vitex: 1200mg daily (broken up to 600mg 2x daily)
    Pramipexole: .5 progressed into 1mg daily
    Nolvadex: 15-20mg liquid before bed.

    this is what im running to combat decca gyno. it has been about a week and a half and I havent even added in the prami yet and im seeing some results. im about to add in the prami and hopefully itll really start doing work. thats alot of stuff but imo its worth it to combat cause i have it bad.
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    Thanks for the quick reply, and that's good news. As I was wrapping up a 6wk PCT with nolva/clomid and I started getting nipple pain and then a lump developed and now a lil bit of milk comes out if i squeeze it. The cycle was hdrol of all things, and I dunno if it's progesterone receptor related from the nolva, or if i got bunk pharma tabs from an oversea's online source and the PCT just failed. Blood test's are pending and depending on the results I'm looking to hit the gyno with a letro/prami combo, with Exemestane at the end to help reduce any estrogen rebound from the letro.

    I've also been reading a lot the last couple days, and I think I've come to a similar dosing scheme as you did. I'll probably start the prami out a .25mg for the first day or two though. Also, if the blood tests show that estrogen is an issue I'm gonna give the standard letro up/down taper a go combined with the prami and leave off the nolva. I'm thinking instead of nolva i'm gonna taper up/down Exemestane for a week or 2 at the end of the letro.

    Here's to hoping this stuff works. Seems to be different results for everone.
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    Good plan man. Seems you have done your research as well. Keep me posted on your progress and i'll keep you posted on mine.
  

  
 

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