First cycle, tbol and test prop?

[Dchristo]

I'm 5'11"
185lbs
23 years old
bf <10%
been training consistently for about four years now.

Been researching a lot and this is what I'm thinkin
week 1-6 test prop 100mg EOD
week 1-6 tbol 40mg ED
arimidex .5mg ED
PCT 2 days after last injection
Week 7-8 nolva 40mg ED
week 9-10 nolva 20mg ED

it's a short cycle but I'm just kinda testin the water seein how I am a virgin to AAS and all. The frequent injections will be a pain but I'm sure I can handle it. Just wondering if anyone has run a similar cycle and what kind of gains I can expect? Gettin to 200lbs with keepable lean muscle would be ideal. Also any other feedback would be greatly appreciated

[EasyEJL]

probably 15lbs is a little high, 10-12 after pct is more reasonable

[jbryand101b]

tbol is good stuff.

[Dchristo]

Would it be better to do the tbol for four weeks before the test?
So week 1-4 tbol 40mg
week 5-10 test prop 100mg EOD

[jbryand101b]

na,. if you were running the test longer, i'd say run the tbol the first 4weeks @ 50mg, take 3 off (running just test) and then 4 more weeks @ 40mg. last two on test/ot and two just ot.

and dont use the a.i. unless you start to see signs of gyno. itchy nipples with a slight pain in one or both.

but thats just what I would like to do, your orig. cycle plan looks fine for what you want.

[TexasLifter89]

why tbol instead of dbol? Looking to stay lean, not just general mass I guess?

[Jasen]

im running dbol for 6weeks but startuing injection on week 3 of dbol

[Dchristo]

Yeah I'm lookin for lean muscle. I want a good amount of sustainable strength and size. I've done 3 prohormone cycles and didn't retain much so decided to go with AAS.

[Dchristo]

Anyone had any adverse sides with test prop, that they don't get from other test esters?

[Libertarian]

The 6 weeker sounds like a solid cycle. I doubt you would gain much more if any at all if you ran the 10 weeker you mentioned and you would just be adding to recovery time as well as the time until you can run your next cycle. The longer your cycle goes the less efficient it becomes as it gives your body time to adapt with increased cortisol levels and such.

I have yet to run prop myself but from what I hear the main difference people complain about is more pain from injections compared to other esters (only sometimes, it seems to depend on the lab/home-brew recipe) and having to inject so frequently. Some people actually like jabbing themselves so if it turns out you're one of those guys you've got nothing to worry about.

Have you thought about injecting 50mg ED? More injections, sure, but you would only be injecting half as much. Considering the half-life of Prop is 2 days, you'd have less hormonal fluctuation which, in theory, could provide less side effects. Most "gurus" seem to recommend ED versus EOD.

EDIT: As it seems you are concerned with lean, quality gains vs. overall bulk mass (can't blame you, I'm the same) you might want to consider a low-dosed AI while on cycle to help keep bloat (as well as possibly fat gain) in check. Just make sure you start low and only increase if needed as you could create adverse side effects such as sore joints. I've heard of people gaining very little, if any, fat/bloat on cycles that even included higher dosages of D-bol so long as they ran an AI (adex/letro/aromasin).

[bigzach1234]

t-bol is good stuff.. but your not gonna put on a ton of weight with it..

[Dchristo]

Is it also true the less actual volume you inject, the less painful? Cause that would be an incentive to pin ED 50mg. I have arimidex and was considering taking .25mg ED, but someone commented that's excessive, what would you recommend?

[lextronics]

The 6 weeker sounds like a solid cycle. I doubt you would gain much more if any at all if you ran the 10 weeker you mentioned and you would just be adding to recovery time as well as the time until you can run your next cycle. The longer your cycle goes the less efficient it becomes as it gives your body time to adapt with increased cortisol levels and such.

I have yet to run prop myself but from what I hear the main difference people complain about is more pain from injections compared to other esters (only sometimes, it seems to depend on the lab/home-brew recipe) and having to inject so frequently. Some people actually like jabbing themselves so if it turns out you're one of those guys you've got nothing to worry about.

Have you thought about injecting 50mg ED? More injections, sure, but you would only be injecting half as much. Considering the half-life of Prop is 2 days, you'd have less hormonal fluctuation which, in theory, could provide less side effects. Most "gurus" seem to recommend ED versus EOD.

EDIT: As it seems you are concerned with lean, quality gains vs. overall bulk mass (can't blame you, I'm the same) you might want to consider a low-dosed AI while on cycle to help keep bloat (as well as possibly fat gain) in check. Just make sure you start low and only increase if needed as you could create adverse side effects such as sore joints. I've heard of people gaining very little, if any, fat/bloat on cycles that even included higher dosages of D-bol so long as they ran an AI (adex/letro/aromasin).

good info right here...i def agree

6-8 weeks no need for anything more..

.5 ed would be less painful then 1cc eod...im running prop right now and i love it, pain i think is a little exaggerated...i means its definately annoying at first, but it gets fine. i usually dont recommend prop for a first cycle because of the constant pinning but if you dont mind it then youll love it

for the arimidex .25mgs a day is more then enough and will help you keep the bloat down, thats what im running at the moment..you could start at .25 eod and start from there and change it to every day as you go along

[Dchristo]

Thanks everyone really appreciate the informed advice. I'll try the arimidex .25mg EOD and bump it up if needs be. Can't wait to run this cycle now

[Libertarian]

Let us know how the cycle turns out.

Also, be sure to rotate your injection sites. Here are my favorite in descending order:

- Ventrogluteal
- Gluteal
- Delts
- Quads


Some people who are a little more daring also pin in places like their calves, pecs, teardrop, lats, etc. But the ones I listed are pretty standard. Rotating those will give you 8 injections sites which would be plenty.

Don't be surprised if you get quite a lot of pain your first time injecting in a muscle. My first injection of Test E, which is considered fairly painless to most people, was in my quad and it left me limping for 2 days. But, after that I never really experienced anything more than slight discomfort. One trick is to massage the muscle after the injection and then workout that muscle if possible to help spread the oil about. For example, I liked to hit my quads on leg day right before heading to the gym. You can also run the syringe under hot water to thin the oil out right before injecting.

[bigzach1234]

wat size pin do u use for ventroglute and delt 5/8th inch?

[Libertarian]

wat size pin do u use for ventroglute and delt 5/8th inch?

Depends on your bodyfat. I personally have always used 1.5" in the ventroglute/glute, and 1" for quads/delts. If your bodyfat is low enough, I have heard of people using 1/2" slin pins for their quads and delts just fine. Also, unless you're injecting something that won't fit, I'd suggest using as skinny of a needle as possible. From now on I don't plan on using anything thicker than 25g in any of my injection sites. If you think 25g injects too slow, then you are probably injecting too fast. Of course, I still use 18-20g to draw.

[juice3320]

Hey man don't mind to hijack your thread here but if you guys don't mind I have a quick question. I am too going to run my 1st AAS cycle and as far as support supps go would you run Cycle Assist and LiverLonger and Taurine (or assist and liver supplement) throughout the entire 12 weeks AAS cycle and during PCT? Or just during the oral AAS?

[EasyEJL]

I still am not comfortable hitting the ventroglute, I look at the pics of where you are supposed to do it, and I just don't have the guts. Although i've tried calves (ha never do that, take my word) and bis aren't bad at under 1ml

[Wudog]

for a newbie I would stick to:
- Ventrogluteal 1.5"
- Gluteal 1.5"
- Quad 1"
- Delt 1"

My personal preference is the Quad for some reason. Delts can get really sore from pinning. We are the same size. I'm 5'10 185. Try out a couple different spots see what works best for you. Do some research to find out exactly where to pin in each location. There are some good videos out there. Here is an example. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otcmsn0Vts"]YouTube - Intramuscular Injection[/ame]

Just make sure you have all PCT on hand b4 you start anything!
If you have any questions please feel free to PM me.