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nolva or letro

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    nolva or letro


    while doing a cycle of test base and fina transdermal
    would it be better to use nolva or letro or neither to control bloat while
    on cycle

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    bloat won't be a problem with the tren.....Letro to keep the tits off

    Bro you need to do some more research ..your not to well inforned .....Nolva is best for PCT.......

    Letrozol is femera, which is an anti-estrogen.

    Femara is 10-30x more effective than Arimidex in it's ability to pass thru the cell membrane of lipid (fat) cells and inhibit the activity of aromatase -- in other words, Femara is far superior in lowering estrogen levels in fat cells. This has two benefits for BBs; (1) Estrogen 'attracts' water, so less water retention (2) an average male BB is around 10%BF, that's a lot of lipid cells with aromatase inside them, so a substantial percentage of aromatase is left untouched by Arimidex due to it's poor ability to enter lipid cellsArimidex is approximately 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase, Femara is around 95-97%,
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    Nolva and Letro are very different. Nolva is SERM and Letro is an anti-e. Anti-e's are good to help prevent bloat while "on", and SERM's are good for combating gyno (nolva more than clomid), and post-cycle therapy.

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    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
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    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Quote Originally Posted by buyb12
    bloat won't be a problem with the tren.....Letro to keep the tits off

    Bro you need to do some more research ..your not to well inforned .....Nolva is best for PCT.......

    Letrozol is femera, which is an anti-estrogen.

    Femara is 10-30x more effective than Arimidex in it's ability to pass thru the cell membrane of lipid (fat) cells and inhibit the activity of aromatase -- in other words, Femara is far superior in lowering estrogen levels in fat cells. This has two benefits for BBs; (1) Estrogen 'attracts' water, so less water retention (2) an average male BB is around 10%BF, that's a lot of lipid cells with aromatase inside them, so a substantial percentage of aromatase is left untouched by Arimidex due to it's poor ability to enter lipid cellsArimidex is approximately 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase, Femara is around 95-97%,
    thanks bro
    i wasnt talking about after cycle is was talking about help with bloat on cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by buyb12
    bloat won't be a problem with the tren.....Letro to keep the tits off

    Bro you need to do some more research ..your not to well inforned .....Nolva is best for PCT.......

    Letrozol is femera, which is an anti-estrogen.

    Femara is 10-30x more effective than Arimidex in it's ability to pass thru the cell membrane of lipid (fat) cells and inhibit the activity of aromatase -- in other words, Femara is far superior in lowering estrogen levels in fat cells. This has two benefits for BBs; (1) Estrogen 'attracts' water, so less water retention (2) an average male BB is around 10%BF, that's a lot of lipid cells with aromatase inside them, so a substantial percentage of aromatase is left untouched by Arimidex due to it's poor ability to enter lipid cellsArimidex is approximately 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase, Femara is around 95-97%,
    Wrong again. Nolva to keep gyno at bay. If you continue to give this advice I will start to think you are doing this for financial reasons only because obvisouly you haven't done any research or comprehend any studies on the subject. Are you not selling enough Letro or something? Letrozole is not even an anti-estrogen, its an Aromatase Inhibitor. In normal men its only a 50% drop in plasma estrogen and the reason its not an effective treatment for gyno. Get your facts straight. The resulting drop in estrogen results from the blocking of aromatase. In any case I will serious questions your contributions here and wonder what your reasons are for posting in this forum. I'm getting sick and tired of you posting the same old bull**** advice and not backing one shred of it up at all. You can have me stop thinking any of that by explaining why you keep recommending Letro over Nolva for gyno.

    Second of all the water retention associated with estrogen is a result of estrogen increasing aldosterone and sodium retention in the liver and being an agonist to anti-diuretic hormones. Reducing plasma estrogen and blocking aromatase will decrease aldosterone and stimulation of increased water rentention. Water retention is a systemic effect, not a cellular one.

    I don't know where your getting thises numbers from eiuther because they are wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by orvise
    thanks bro
    i wasnt talking about after cycle is was talking about help with bloat on cycle
    An AI will help and watch your carb intake and sodium intake. Keep those in check and it shouldn't be a problem. You should be able to keep water rentention to a minimum while gaining the benefits of estrogen (GH, IGF-1, GLyocgen storage, etc...)
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    I want to see what B12 says in response to this.
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    ill have it on hand incase i start blowin up.
    have nolva will get some letro
    dose for bloat .5-1mg?
    thanks
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    The dosage you have EOD I believe. Bobo correct me if I am wrong. Luckily test isn't bloating me
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    I've had people use as little as .5mg every 3rd or 4th day and its fine.
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    i wont even use it unless it gets to bad i know estrogen
    is good for gains
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    You are right about that. I personally wouldn't use it unless I had some puffy nipples, even then it would be nolva. But hey to each his own. But I would save the money and get some HCG.
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    This is what SWALE posted on steroidology




    My PCT Protocol
    Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

    Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

    Here it is:

    I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

    Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

    If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

    The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

    I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

    All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.


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    I've read several posts recommending HCG usage in the type of fashion of SWALE's protocal, but I'm not sure if a 5,000IU vial would 'hold up' 10 weeks as most of the info I've read says it is only potent for around 30 days.

    If you were to mix the 5,000IU vial with an additional 9cc bac water for a total solution of around 10cc you could dose 1/2 cc (250IU) twice a week for 10 weeks, but wouldn't the product ability be nil by week 4 or 5?
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    First off Letro is much faster acting than Nolva. It does a better job preventing gyno. In many cases it will reverse gyno by starving the gland of estrogen.....this is also what it does to cancer tumors.

    Bobo I think you have some sort of issue with me....I don't know why. It seems to me you think I'm just out to sell products.....weather people by letro or Nolva makes no difference to me. Maybe you should look at my reputation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buyb12
    First off Letro is much faster acting than Nolva. It does a better job preventing gyno. In many cases it will reverse gyno by starving the gland of estrogen.....this is also what it does to cancer tumors.

    Bobo I think you have some sort of issue with me....I don't know why. It seems to me you think I'm just out to sell products.....weather people by letro or Nolva makes no difference to me. Maybe you should look at my reputation.
    This is the same guy that said "Spiro 5% is worthless junk ask any dermatolagist, buy finasteride."

    You seem to also hand out weird advice all the time. How old are you btw?
    Hold on, I'll try to find that thread..
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    Quote Originally Posted by buyb12
    First off Letro is much faster acting than Nolva. It does a better job preventing gyno. In many cases it will reverse gyno by starving the gland of estrogen.....this is also what it does to cancer tumors.

    Bobo I think you have some sort of issue with me....I don't know why. It seems to me you think I'm just out to sell products.....weather people by letro or Nolva makes no difference to me. Maybe you should look at my reputation.

    1. Fast acting how? At blocking aromatase? Of course it it because Nolvadex does not block aromatase. Second of all glandular formation only needs the presence of estrogen, not high amounts. High amounts antogonize but so will progesterone and prolactin as long as estrogen is present. Letro and Arimidex do not eliminate circulting estrogen. In most case the maximum amount of reduced plasma estrogen was 50%. Is estrogen still present? Yes. Cancer in breast tissue in females is a completely different condition and you comparing the two shows how much you do not understand in this area. The single best treament is to block the receptors responsible for growth and this is achieved with Nolva. It also has more favorable effect at reducing progesteron AND prolactin than AI's. It is the single best prevention and treament of steroidal induced gyno for men, and its documented.

    Your reputation? You sell liquid research products. What reputation are you referring to? I have a problem with you when you blatantly keep recommedning Letro for gyno over Nolva when you have no idea what you are talking about. This is the third time you've done this without any proof whatsoever even though its been asked you do so everytime. Its very simple. If you think Letro is better prove it because I surely can for Nolva. So when you sell it, it makes me questions what your motives are.

    So please remember this. Gyno is not breast cancer. The causes of each are completely different.


    I think you run a good business but its not the issue. Giving the correct advice is the issue when your dealing with people's health. So put up or shut up.
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    Here's the link: Making my own spironolactone topical solution with emu oil, help.

    Out of all the posts I read from this dude, he's pimping his products silently...

    I'm just tellin' it like it is buyb12, so don't think I'm goin' out on a limb here..
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    I like buyb12 products.

    However, I do not think letro is the best choice for gyno.

    I think nolvadex is a better choice. I also think that arimidex is a better choice over letro b/c arimidex has a negative impact on IGF-1 levels, whereas letro does not.
    Last edited by size; 03-04-2004 at 03:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    I like buyb12 products.

    However, I do not think letro is the best choice for gyno.

    I think nolvadex is a better choice. I also think that arimidex is a better choice over letro b/c arimidex has a negative impact on IGF-1 levels, whereas letro does not.
    I remember reading somewhere that if you are going to be using letro while on for bloat, then it would reduce the effectiveness of the nolva for PCT. IOW's, those two shouldn't be combined in that fashion, correct?
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